Nene stays in Denver

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
63,434
Reaction score
57,744
Location
SoCal
Joe Mama said:
you should know me well enough by now cheese to know that I call it like I see it. Please tell me what the upside to signing Boris Diaw to a maximum or near maximum contract extension this summer? You and others keep complaining and complaining, but I don't see you giving any solutions. What would you do differently? When you tell us all I guarantee I'll be able to poke a million holes in your plan.

If everyone who isn't bitching and moaning about everything the Phoenix Suns do is drinking the Kool-Aid, what are you doing? And don't give me any more of this crap about banning you because you can't help it. Don't try to tell me that the Phoenix Suns are going to end up like the Arizona Cardinals. Bill Bidwill would never have purchased the Phoenix Suns for $400 million in the first place. He wouldn't have given $100 million to Steve Nash and Q and another $25 million to a player like Bell. We are talking about an owner who may be trying to avoid a luxury tax... not someone trying to spend well under the salary cap.

Do I think Sarver is the ideal owner? Hell no. However when a lot of you guys compare him to the Bill Bidwill's and Donald Sterling's of the world you are so far off base. One of the things that bothers me about Sarver is his sideline antics. I don't mind that he is enthusiastic, but the yelling at other teams is too much. That said, seems to me that's proof that the guy really cares about winning.

Have some freaking patience.

Joe


joe, not picking a fight here, but patience for what? having patience means you're waiting for something. the indications of action the suns have provided have either all gone by the wayside (tt) or are drying up quickly (signing a backup point). so what, exactly, are we waiting for?
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Ouchie-Z-Clown said:
joe, not picking a fight here, but patience for what? having patience means you're waiting for something. the indications of action the suns have provided have either all gone by the wayside (tt) or are drying up quickly (signing a backup point). so what, exactly, are we waiting for?

A better deal?

Let's be clear about the PG situation - they aren't likely to get someone who can crack the Suns eight man rotation. We are looking for spot players who are as likely to show up on the waiver wires or be available in trade using the TE as anything else.

Take for example the Blazers. In getting Dickou, they still have four point guards. Diener is another guy who is deep bench. I'm not sure they are worth the bother, but they won't be available until late training camp.

Another thing is that the summer leagues haven't started. I'm guessing the Suns will be scouting everybody since they roster slots to fill. It is quite possible somebody will stand out. Just because someone is on a summer roster is no assurance they will stay with that team and you'd think an overlooked PG would jump at a chance of joining the Suns.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
63,434
Reaction score
57,744
Location
SoCal
George O'Brien said:
A better deal?

Let's be clear about the PG situation - they aren't likely to get someone who can crack the Suns eight man rotation. We are looking for spot players who are as likely to show up on the waiver wires or be available in trade using the TE as anything else.

Take for example the Blazers. In getting Dickou, they still have four point guards. Diener is another guy who is deep bench. I'm not sure they are worth the bother, but they won't be available until late training camp.

Another thing is that the summer leagues haven't started. I'm guessing the Suns will be scouting everybody since they roster slots to fill. It is quite possible somebody will stand out. Just because someone is on a summer roster is no assurance they will stay with that team and you'd think an overlooked PG would jump at a chance of joining the Suns.


if that's the case, then this IS the "wait for june 1st cuts" that we got to experience with the cards. george, i don't know if you follow football, but that strategy fails time and again.

no fa's at this point will help this team. if we're to make any effective changes at this point it will be via a trade.
 

KingLouieLouie

Going Old School!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Posts
5,532
Reaction score
46
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Ouchie-Z-Clown said:
if that's the case, then this IS the "wait for june 1st cuts" that we got to experience with the cards. george, i don't know if you follow football, but that strategy fails time and again.

no fa's at this point will help this team. if we're to make any effective changes at this point it will be via a trade.

I am both a loyal Cardinals and Suns fan, however, I cant figure out why you are constantly applying the Cardinals analogy to the Suns because at least they have advanced to the Western Conference Finals (and again as we all know albeit minus their best player and then subsequently were forced to play with one of their most intregal players limited by an injury) compared to a team such as the Cardinals who up until the past 3 off-seasons (obviously since Denny Green came on board) seemed to take the minimalist approach in trying to upgrade their team...... It's not like the Suns have at any time the past couple of seasons have been so far away talent wise than the Cardinals have been at their respective sports......

Its not like the Suns are currently lacking in impact players, but true they need to add depth..... However.... the deficienty in that department was caused of course by the absence of Amare and the loss of KT.......

What will transpire is Amare will play PF, KT C, with Marion returning back to his more natural SF.... Diaw will spell Amare, KT, Marion and even Nash at their respective positions due to his immense versatility and Barbosa will be used more at SG whenever Bell needs to be rested..... Diaw is probably one of the best bigmen at his being very adept at handling the ball with his deft passing and above average dribbling..... With Amare, Diaw, Thomas, Nash, and Marion (and sometimes Bell) out there on the court at the same time will create so many mismatch opportunities..... Just imagine Diaw and Amare on the 2-man game... both will have to be respective... and that would lead either Marion or KT more wide-open for mid-range jumpers...... Amare will attract so many double-teams is another reason why Marion's game will even improve further..which is shocking in its own right... Again.. he was playing out of position last season..was forced to defend players he otherwise wouldnt have.. and drew difficult guarding assignments from the opposition whenever the Suns were at the offensive side of the court... Now... Amare again will be attracting most of those players... and in the process Marion wont be battered around as much... Also.. KT will clear the lane more and again his inside/outside game will have to be respective....

In terms of TT not being re-signed... it's not a castrophe whatsoever... He outpriced himself out of the Suns range because I believe D'Antoni and Co. didnt figure that he would warrant that much money contingent on his playing time... He would merely average 20 mins per game max... is that adequate for player who accepted a 4 yr-24 mil deal elsewhere? Absolutely not......

And I find it hysterical how many are complaining about the Suns not bringing House back or finding it now essential when he's essentially a one-dimensional player and the area he excels at.. well.. let's just say.. he's streaky at best...

Piatkowsi is one of those low-risk..high-reward situations.. not like they vested 2-3 mil per year and expect him to play a substantial role....... He's just going to be the 11th player on the squad.... Perhaps this Sato will be a diamond in the rough... never know......

We're just one week into FA and there is no sense whatsoever in losing patience... Not like the Suns have had to make dramatic enhancements to their squad that the Cardinals had to over the past several seasons.... The Suns just need depth players and they're gradually adding it... They dont have to "break the bank" for the sake of it.... They'll reel in some decentt role players soon (which is all they need)... I guarantee it....
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
I am definitely NOT a Cardinals fan and will never be as long as Bidwill is owner. I can understand how Card fans might view all owners with skepticism. I could never do it and remain a fan.

If I don't believe the owner and management are focused on winning, I will simply not support the team. I'm from San Francisco and watched the 49ers and Warriors destroyed by incompetant owers. I don't follow them any more.

It's not an issue of winning. I suffered through the Suns winning ony 29 games one year, but I was much more confident than I have been about the Warriors. Their organization is a diaster. BTW, I don't really follow the Diamondbacks for much the the same reason.

Still, the Cardinals ownership is one of the worst I've ever seen. How anyone can put up with their constant lying and repeated blunders is beyond me. I honestly don't think Sarver is anything like Bidwill and find Card comparisons to be quite pointless.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
63,434
Reaction score
57,744
Location
SoCal
George O'Brien said:
I am definitely NOT a Cardinals fan and will never be as long as Bidwill is owner. I can understand how Card fans might view all owners with skepticism. I could never do it and remain a fan.

If I don't believe the owner and management are focused on winning, I will simply not support the team. I'm from San Francisco and watched the 49ers and Warriors destroyed by incompetant owers. I don't follow them any more.

It's not an issue of winning. I suffered through the Suns winning ony 29 games one year, but I was much more confident than I have been about the Warriors. Their organization is a diaster. BTW, I don't really follow the Diamondbacks for much the the same reason.

Still, the Cardinals ownership is one of the worst I've ever seen. How anyone can put up with their constant lying and repeated blunders is beyond me. I honestly don't think Sarver is anything like Bidwill and find Card comparisons to be quite pointless.


when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to help depth-wise - which is what you're advocating the Suns do and is actually their plan, that's where the comparison comes into play George.

And yes, the Cards onwership was GOD-AWFUL for DECADES, but thankfully we've seen signs or real change there in the last two years.

As far as not supporting a team because of an owner, well, that just ain't in my blood. I'm a Phoenician through and through, even though I haven't lived there for over a decade now and I root for my teams because I root for my state, it's just that simple. And when you have a passion for sports like I do, it's not something you can control.

(THIS IS CHEESE BTW)
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,500
Reaction score
962
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Personally I'm being patient because I believe the Phoenix Suns will do one of the following.

1. Make a trade or getting involved in a trade that lands them a player they want.

2. Find a player who slipped through the cracks and will contribute to the team this season, especially if there are more injuries.

3. Perhaps find one of the undrafted free agent's on their own team or sign one away from another team's summer squad.

I would honestly prefer that this team sticks to their guns and does not overpay for a player they don't feel strongly about.

Joe
 

planaria

Rookie
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Posts
66
Reaction score
0
SunsTzu said:
The year Nene averaged 32.5mpg he scored 11.9ppg and 6.5rpg and had more TOs than assists. The worst part is that as a true athletic big man he only averaged .54bpg which is about 1/2 of what Diaw got this year. When you don't play a lot of minutes regularly you can be more effective in the minutes you get which is why per minute stats don't mean much. Plus as you said Nene was doing that from the bench facing other bench players.

I hope the Suns can sign Diaw for no more than what Nene makes(and hopefully a little less), but there is no doubt in my mind he is a better player and more deserving of a contract than Nene.

While I agree that Nene should get more rebounds and block more shots, is a FACT that his main mission in Denver isnt get rebound or block shots. The Nuggets have a Top 3 guys to both these jobs (Camby) and Nene's work is push his guy away from the paint to avoid him from get easy baskets or offensive rebounds.

BTW, his blocks numbers have increased considerabily in the next season to a decent 0.87 bpg in 23.9 mpg, despite all the injuries.

If you watch Denver games you'll see that Nene dont use to face the bench players in the most of time, but the fact that he came from the bench avoid him to get in game rhythm.

Most of Nene's TOs came from offensive fouls, what's is one of his big problems, but his pushing game in the paint is a lethal play when its works.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Nene is a nice player, but this is pay based sole on his his "potential" and fear that a team like the Hawks would take him.
 

NugzFan

Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
Posts
323
Reaction score
24
in todays nba, nenes deal isnt that bad at all. if he can recover from his injury, and so far the news sounds good on that front, the deal will be fine. big men always get big deals in the nba.
 

Bada0Bing

Don't Stop Believin'
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Posts
7,700
Reaction score
951
Location
Goodyear
NugzFan said:
in todays nba, nenes deal isnt that bad at all. if he can recover from his injury, and so far the news sounds good on that front, the deal will be fine. big men always get big deals in the nba.

No, it's bad. You will be trying to trade him in a few years and you will be utilizing his expiring contract.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,368
Reaction score
16,867
Location
Round Rock, TX
NugzFan said:
in todays nba, nenes deal isnt that bad at all. if he can recover from his injury, and so far the news sounds good on that front, the deal will be fine. big men always get big deals in the nba.

Sounds like you're just trying to find a silver lining. A healthy Nene isn't worth 10 mil per, let alone one that hasn't played in a year.
 

NugzFan

Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
Posts
323
Reaction score
24
Bada0Bing said:
No, it's bad. You will be trying to trade him in a few years and you will be utilizing his expiring contract.

ok. thanks for the info.
 

NugzFan

Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
Posts
323
Reaction score
24
Chaplin said:
Sounds like you're just trying to find a silver lining. A healthy Nene isn't worth 10 mil per, let alone one that hasn't played in a year.

no silver lining needed. hes a little overpaid but so is most of the nba. and his deal is pretty standard for above average big men. hes not the first big guy to get a big deal...wont be the last. plus its way better than letting him walk for nothing.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
NugzFan said:
no silver lining needed. hes a little overpaid but so is most of the nba. and his deal is pretty standard for above average big men. hes not the first big guy to get a big deal...wont be the last. plus its way better than letting him walk for nothing.

You mean like Kenyon Martin? :p
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,368
Reaction score
16,867
Location
Round Rock, TX
NugzFan said:
no silver lining needed. hes a little overpaid but so is most of the nba. and his deal is pretty standard for above average big men. hes not the first big guy to get a big deal...wont be the last. plus its way better than letting him walk for nothing.

What makes you think he is above average? Sure, he was ok before the surgery, but wasn't above average. Just because other players are overpaid, doesn't mean that all of them deserve to be paid more than they're worth. Glad it's not my team.
 

NugzFan

Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
Posts
323
Reaction score
24
Chaplin said:
What makes you think he is above average? Sure, he was ok before the surgery, but wasn't above average. Just because other players are overpaid, doesn't mean that all of them deserve to be paid more than they're worth. Glad it's not my team.

most people who agree hes above average. i didnt call him a superstar. nene is easily above average.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,368
Reaction score
16,867
Location
Round Rock, TX
NugzFan said:
most people who agree hes above average. i didnt call him a superstar. nene is easily above average.

Then we disagree. Can't say much more than that since the Nuggets are your team, but I'm sure this would be a better debate if it was discussing a player not on either the Suns OR the Nuggets.
 

NugzFan

Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
Posts
323
Reaction score
24
Chaplin said:
Then we disagree. Can't say much more than that since the Nuggets are your team, but I'm sure this would be a better debate if it was discussing a player not on either the Suns OR the Nuggets.

like drew gooden?
 

NugzFan

Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
Posts
323
Reaction score
24
lol - didnt even realize you guys were trying to get gooden. now i gotta think of another player.
 

JS22

Say Vandelay!
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Posts
5,791
Reaction score
211
NugzFan said:
no, hes just average.

Actually, numbers wise, Gooden is better than Nene, who is an overpaid bust.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
552,414
Posts
5,398,264
Members
6,313
Latest member
50 year card fan
Top