Nets @ Suns 11-6- 18

[hcsilla]

The Suns are devoid of chemistry. The players are not holding each other accountable.

From ESPN:



http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ove-chemistry-embarrassing-loss-brooklyn-nets

That will be quick and ugly.

I mean it will escalate quickly, and Kokoskov will be fired in weeks, unless some dramatic change happens.

The Suns simply can not be that bad. This team is obviously playing worse than the tanking one last season.

After adding Booker, Ayton, Ariza, Bridges and Canaan.

Something basic must be wrong. Maybe the players do not buy Kokoskov as a head coach, I guess that is the most likely explanation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's pretty clear to me, in today's rules and perimeter oriented game, I'd have taken Doncic.

I still wouldn’t. If Ayton develops the killer instinct and the team concentrates on effectively feeding him the post he’s going to create incredible gravity which should open up all sorts of shooting and slashing opportunities, and he’s a good passer to take advantage of those opportunities. Granted those are two “if’s” but if they come to pass he’ll be more impactful for the overall team than will he Doncic (and I like Doncic).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wouldn’t care if he’s a “beta” a long as he’s not soft. I think he’s closer to goofy than soft. Whatever that means.

I think that’s kinda what I mean when I say he’s a “big kid” still. I don’t think he even fully gets where he’s at and the pressure. Which is a good and bad thing. Something is going to have to happen to get him to kinda snap to get a bit of a mean streak. I mean, Shaq was goofy but he had a mean streak. You didn’t want Shaq mad. Hopefully we get to a point where teams don’t want Ayton mad.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That will be quick and ugly.

I mean it will escalate quickly, and Kokoskov will be fired in weeks, unless some dramatic change happens.

The Suns simply can not be that bad. This team is obviously playing worse than the tanking one last season.

After adding Booker, Ayton, Ariza, Bridges and Canaan.

Something basic must be wrong. Maybe the players do not buy Kokoskov as a head coach, I guess that is the most likely explanation.

I hope not. Everything about Kokoskov says he is a good coach. Our continuity issues are a real problem. Losing by 20 to the Nets is bad though.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You don't draft someone #1 overall to fit your coach's style, especially when that coach has never been a head coach in the NBA. Igor only had the head coach job for 2 weeks at the time of the draft. I would get his input on who he likes but I wouldn't give it that much weight. It should have been made clear that he needed to build a system around our talent rather than trying to force our talent into his system. He's not Phil Jackson or Popovich. His system hasn't won anything at this level yet and we lack talent. Trying to force what talent we do have to play in his system could be part of why our guys have struggled.

People keep talking about koko’s “System” as if he created it. I’m willing to bet it’s something he’s acquired over the years and has multiple facets from prior coaches. In fact, I see many of the elements I saw from the spurs. I think Ayton is being groomed to be very duncanlike on offense, but not being fed the ball forcefully in the post as much - but I think that’s more a result of our team not being skilled at post entry passes.

 

[slinslin]

Everything about Kokoskov says he is a good coach

Like what? The BS twitter hispters like Evan Sidery post?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Like what? The BS twitter hispters like Evan Sidery post?

Sorry, I missed putting in "his resume".

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here's a quote from Ayton about the game that is encouraging, if he actually sticks with it. I want to see him be more assertive. He needs to be for us to win.

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Now THAT’S the type of statement I wanted to see!!!

 

[Mainstreet]

That will be quick and ugly.

I mean it will escalate quickly, and Kokoskov will be fired in weeks, unless some dramatic change happens.

The Suns simply can not be that bad. This team is obviously playing worse than the tanking one last season.

After adding Booker, Ayton, Ariza, Bridges and Canaan.

Something basic must be wrong. Maybe the players do not buy Kokoskov as a head coach, I guess that is the most likely explanation.

Agreed. Something is wrong and it's not just about talent.

The Suns are always in save a buck mode concerning decision makers and scouts. And ownership wonders why they can't win.

Even Jay Triano is looking better right now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Now THAT’S the type of statement I wanted to see!!!

Ayton certainly is the bright spot in this season. He has great self awareness.

Our forward though are just abysmal.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Agreed. Something is wrong and it's not just about talent.

The Suns are always in save a buck mode concerning decision makers and scouts. And ownership wonders why they can't win.

Even Jay Triano is looking better right now.

1. PG. If Canaan if the prominent offensive player at any point, the team is playing poorly. If he gets better numbers it is always at the expense of other players.
2. Disappearing vets. I honestly think Ariza and Anderson do not care.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns simply can not be that bad. This team is obviously playing worse than the tanking one last season.

After adding Booker, Ayton, Ariza, Bridges and Canaan.

Something basic must be wrong. Maybe the players do not buy Kokoskov as a head coach, I guess that is the most likely explanation.

We didn't really "add" Booker. He's played in 70% of our games this season, he played in 66% of them last year.

We added a lot this offseason, not all of it was good. But right now, these guys are mostly strangers and apparently there are some players on the roster that can't handle critical input from teammates. Booker, as the star, is the team's leader but it's a tough job to expect a 22 year old to lead a player mix like this.

 

[hcsilla]

We didn't really "add" Booker. He's played in 70% of our games this season, he played in 66% of them last year.

I wrote that this team plays worse than the tanking one last season. The tanking one obviously did not include Booker.

So we did "add" him. Yet, we play worse.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wrote that this team plays worse than the tanking one last season. The tanking one obviously did not include Booker.

So we did "add" him. Yet, we play worse.

I'm not trying to nitpick on this but I think you're trying to have it both ways here. If you're not calling all of last year a tanking season, your point about this team playing worse loses validity. We are currently 2 - 8 against a fairly tough schedule. Last year, once we sat Chandler, we finished the season 2 - 12. Once we sat Booker, we finished the season 2 - 10. And those wins and losses came against a fairly easy schedule as several of our opponents were tanking. So, no, even with the blowouts, I don't think we are "obviously playing worse".

IMO there is a complete lack of familiarity and comfort amongst the players this season. We didn't just add a new coaching staff and a new system and the players you mentioned. We also added 2 more rookies plus Crawford and Anderson. All told, that's an awful lot of change to absorb in a short amount of time. But I don't think any of us really know whether our playing woes are a failure on Koko's part or just the growing pains of a newly assembled team. To me though, we look like an expansion team.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not trying to nitpick on this but I think you're trying to have it both ways here. If you're not calling all of last year a tanking season, your point about this team playing worse loses validity. We are currently 2 - 8 against a fairly tough schedule. Last year, once we sat Chandler, we finished the season 2 - 12. Once we sat Booker, we finished the season 2 - 10. And those wins and losses came against a fairly easy schedule as several of our opponents were tanking. So, no, even with the blowouts, I don't think we are "obviously playing worse".

We didn't turn the ball over or get blown out as often when we were tanking. Losing by 20+ every game and having 20+ turnovers, leading the league, is why someone would say we're worse now. Unlike when we sat players, we're using all of our talent and not even getting the same results as when we tanked because the margin of defeat is higher. We suck, and should end our PayPal sponsorship to get Dyson to take over because their vacuums suck around the same level we do.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We didn't turn the ball over or get blown out as often when we were tanking. Losing by 20+ every game and having 20+ turnovers, leading the league, is why someone would say we're worse now. Unlike when we sat players, we're using all of our talent and not even getting the same results as when we tanked because the margin of defeat is higher. We suck, and should end our PayPal sponsorship to get Dyson to take over because their vacuums suck around the same level we do.

And I'd say scoreboard. Sure the blowouts are embarrassing and we didn't close out last year with a lot of them but by then every opponent tended to play down to our level until they needed to step up. And we did a lot of scoreboard padding ourselves down the stretch of games when the other team started playing the end of their bench. So, I'll go by wins and losses, no other measure is reasonable in this situation IMO.

 

[Raindog]

1. PG. If Canaan if the prominent offensive player at any point, the team is playing poorly. If he gets better numbers it is always at the expense of other players.
2. Disappearing vets. I honestly think Ariza and Anderson do not care.

1. Canaan frankly is NOT a legit PG. He's a sawed off SG, sort of a (very) poor man's IT. When your starting PG is providing about 2.5 assists per game, you don't really have a starting PG.

2. Beating a dead horse here, but Anderson should not be starting and definitely should not be playing more than 10 minutes a game max. He is a stiff, and the one thing he supposedly was going to supply (shooting), he's not even doing that. Ariza may be a more credible contributor, but he looks like he's phoning it in too. The acquisition of both of them was a stupid waste of resources.

 

[sunsfan88]

Now THAT’S the type of statement I wanted to see!!!

Ayton certainly is the bright spot in this season. He has great self awareness.

Our forward though are just abysmal.

He needs to show us rather than telling us.

 

[hcsilla]

I'm not trying to nitpick on this but I think you're trying to have it both ways here. If you're not calling all of last year a tanking season, your point about this team playing worse loses validity. We are currently 2 - 8 against a fairly tough schedule. Last year, once we sat Chandler, we finished the season 2 - 12. Once we sat Booker, we finished the season 2 - 10. And those wins and losses came against a fairly easy schedule as several of our opponents were tanking.

Last 14 games of last season were:

@CHA, CLE, @UTA, GSW, DET, @CLE, @ORL, BOS, LA, @HOU, @GSW, SAC, NOH, GSW, @DAL.

This is not an easier schedule, it migth be the opposite, yet, our point differential was better in those 14 games than in these 10 games.

So, no, even with the blowouts, I don't think we are "obviously playing worse".

Obviously might be a slight exaggeration, but this is my perception.

IMO there is a complete lack of familiarity and comfort amongst the players this season. We didn't just add a new coaching staff and a new system and the players you mentioned. We also added 2 more rookies plus Crawford and Anderson. All told, that's an awful lot of change to absorb in a short amount of time. But I don't think any of us really know whether our playing woes are a failure on Koko's part or just the growing pains of a newly assembled team. To me though, we look like an expansion team.

I'm afraid that we have bigger issues than that.

Take a look on teams that the Hawks and the Nets have fielded last seasons. They did have less talent than this Suns team, and didn't really have more time to get comfortable with each other.

Yet, they played (much) more competitive basketball.

It's not about losing or having a record of 2-8. It is about the way of losing.

 

[1tinsoldier]

1. Canaan frankly is NOT a legit PG. He's a sawed off SG, sort of a (very) poor man's IT. When your starting PG is providing about 2.5 assists per game, you don't really have a starting PG.

exactly. and he played more minutes last night than any other player on the Suns or Nets
(except Booker who also played 36 minutes)

on any other team in the league
--Canaan is a bench player
--all the veterans we hired would be coming off the bench now
--Ayton would be used more effectively, and would be improving more elements of his game, instead of showing some signs of regression and being disrespected by opposing defenses
--Igor would be an assistant coach

 

[taz02]

I have tried to block out most of what I saw last season but the expectations were lower and this team is really, really bad. There is no sugar coating it, games are almost unwatchable.

Igor needs to change the offense or we need a PG that can run it. Right now we have the wrong system for the players we have. Whats the status with Rubio?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Obviously might be a slight exaggeration, but this is my perception.

Fair enough.

I'm afraid that we have bigger issues than that.

Take a look on teams that the Hawks and the Nets have fielded last seasons. They did have less talent than this Suns team, and didn't really have more time to get comfortable with each other.

Yet, they played (much) more competitive basketball.

It's not about losing or having a record of 2-8. It is about the way of losing.

The Nets get a lot out of less, and yeah, we don't. Kenny Atkinson has done a great job there and he's done it from day one. The Hawks had more talent than we did (IMO) although they did have a revolving door roster. Still, they had an established coach and a lot of veterans, many of whom still had a little value. And while they did win 3 more games than we did, they were every bit as bad as we were if you allow for the easier Eastern Conference schedule.

 

[Yuma]

Rookie center Deandre Ayton said Booker gave a great pre-game speech

“This losing, losing by double digits, has to stop,” Booker said.

Leadership developing!!! Good sign out of this loss.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Leadership developing!!! Good sign out of this loss.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but didn't it say "pre-game" speech?

 

[Mainstreet]

1. PG. If Canaan if the prominent offensive player at any point, the team is playing poorly. If he gets better numbers it is always at the expense of other players.
2. Disappearing vets. I honestly think Ariza and Anderson do not care.

Let's trade Ariza if humanly possible before the trade deadline and sit Anderson until he can be bought out next summer.

Signing Ariza was a terrible mistake. This alone was enough to get McDonough canned.

Both should be sitting on the bench until they get their adrenaline flowing with another team.

See tweet below:

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