New Matrix RELOADED thread. (spoilers)

[schutd]

3 out of 5 stars, I guess.

I think the CGi was WAY overdone. I would have liked more wire tirckery like in the first one, as you still have the human element in that technique and the movements aren't perfect like a computer makes them. The technology is sure impressive, but I like wire stunts better still.

The Wachowski brothers had their hands tied a bit in that the original movie was so fantastic, because its exposed the premise of what the matrix is. With the audience knowing that going in, they had to develop a story within those confines, and that seemed to lower the story to that of an average action flick, and not the psychological/philosphical drama the original one was...

With that in mind, they tried WAY too hard to keep the philosphical edge in the movie by cramming it down your throat with cryptic and arcain dialogue. It muddled up the film.

The dance/orgy/Neo love scene sequence was the stupidest addition to the film, and TOTALLY contrived. I thought it was totally lame. When I saw those dummies dancing, I started rooting for the machines.

The freeway scene was a thrill ride, but overdone in my opinion. Maybe I'm just not ready for complete CGI takeover of stunts yet. Who knows.

IM a *******, I dodnt know to wait out the credits.
Overall, this film was enjoyable, but doesnt hold a torch to the original, which was absolutely breathtaking on so many levels.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by schutd
3 out of 5 stars, I guess.

Overall, this film was enjoyable, but doesnt hold a torch to the original, which was absolutely breathtaking on so many levels.

I liked the first movie a lot, but it seems to me that it's being really overrated. It's a good movie and all, but nowhere near some of the great movies of our generation like Star Wars or even Blade Runner.

 

[schutd]

Hard to compare them, I think. Star Wars was amazing for it's time, but it is after all almost 30 years old now. I liked the premise of and the philosophy of the atrix more, but Star Wars is Star Wars and you'd be hard pressed to rate other sci fi adventure films above it.

Blade Runner I tend to agree with. A fantastic film, start to finish. A futuristic Film Noir that addresses many social concerns prevelant when it was released (and still so today for that matter).

I dont think The Matrix is overrated at all. But thats probably personal opinion. I can watch that movie over and over again. And I regularly do.

Nowhere near Blade Runner or Star Wars? I disagree. I think its damn near. Id be hard pressed to pick between Star Wars and The Matrix (from a purely cinematic standpoint, not from a nostalgic standpoint. Star Wars screenplay is prety awful, IMO, and thats a HUGE part of a film to me) and I have to take Blade RUnner above The Matrix, but not by the wide margin you suggest.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: New Matrix RELOADED thread. (spoilers)

Originally posted by Chaplin
I liked the first movie a lot, but it seems to me that it's being really overrated. It's a good movie and all, but nowhere near some of the great movies of our generation like Star Wars or even Blade Runner.

I read "Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep" before I saw Blade Runner, and I have to admit that I thought Blade Runner was terrible.

The book was just so much better, that I spent the entire time thinking about how I need to get a copy of the book.

 

[schutd]

Re: Re: Re: New Matrix RELOADED thread. (spoilers)

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I read "Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep" before I saw Blade Runner, and I have to admit that I thought Blade Runner was terrible.

The book was just so much better, that I spent the entire time thinking about how I need to get a copy of the book.

A perfect example of a book ruining a film! Heh.

I never seem to have this problem, because..... well..... I never seem to read. Embarrasing to admit. But when I do, its usually not fiction.

 

[Chaplin]

Even Minority Report was much better than the first Matrix as well.

Can I watch the Matrix over and over? No. I disliked the 20 minute Morpheus speech in the beginning more than almost anything else from both movies (the rave scene and the architect convo are the only things worse).

Matrix is a great movie, a great sci-fi action movie. But is it among the best sci-fi movies of all time? No way. Not even close. It is perhaps technologically much better than Star Wars, but Star Wars has a mythology about it--Matrix does not.

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Even Minority Report was much better than the first Matrix as well.

Well thats a matter of taste then, because I thought Minority Report was totally underwhelming. A good film, for sure, a good premise as well, but The MAtrix to me was the perfect combination of testoterone fueled action, good filmmaking, excellent choreography, philosophy, and was visually off the hook as well. Minority Report just didnt have the on screen energy that The Matrix did. It wasnt even close IMO.

Star Wars has mythology, sure, but so what? Is it a pre requisite for good Sci-fi? I don't think so. Or by Mythology, do you mean the elevated geek like following that the series has spawned? If thats what you mean, I find that to be the most annoying part of Star Wars fandom. The mythology is inherent in the film, and brought to absurdist-like proportions by the films followers.

And which 20 minute Morpheus speach are we talking about? When he explains what the MAtrix is to Neo for the first time? Maybe an example of poor exposition, but how else could you tell it without making the movie 5 hours long? It was a needing vehicle, as Neo had just been "freed" and theres no other way to bring someone up to speed.

About the only thing I thought was done REALLY well with Reloaded was the twist they threw into the story by divulging what the purpose of "the One" really was. A good twist. Too bad it was muddied in that philosophical aural assault by the architect. Because that point was more important tan any other in the whole film, and it was lost in all the jargon.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by schutd
About the only thing I thought was done REALLY well with Reloaded was the twist they threw into the story by divulging what the purpose of "the One" really was. A good twist. Too bad it was muddied in that philosophical aural assault by the architect. Because that point was more important tan any other in the whole film, and it was lost in all the jargon.

But IMO that hurts the film immensely. That first speech by Morpheus in the first movie could have been written much better. As a writer, the quality of writing means a lot to me in a film. It's actually the script that makes the difference between the two cuts of Blade Runner. And just like a movie can be underwritten, it can be overwritten--which both Matrix movies are. But that's just my preference.

As to the mythology, Star Wars is more than just a movie, it is, as cliched as it sounds, a way of life. That's what makes it better.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by Chaplin
But IMO that hurts the film immensely. That first speech by Morpheus in the first movie could have been written much better. As a writer, the quality of writing means a lot to me in a film. It's actually the script that makes the difference between the two cuts of Blade Runner. And just like a movie can be underwritten, it can be overwritten--which both Matrix movies are. But that's just my preference.

As to the mythology, Star Wars is more than just a movie, it is, as cliched as it sounds, a way of life. That's what makes it better.

I was not impressed with the Morheus speech either. It sounded like someone wrote it in 10 minutes. It was supposed to be inspiring, but I thought it was dull. The Arhitect speech was a confusing, techno-babble mess IMO.

I liked the first Matrix much better. Loved the first two Star Wars movies, but haven't found much to love since.

 

[Ryanwb]

When Neo is fighting the 100 agent Smiths...he almost looked "cartoonish" and that was displeasing to me. Also, the original Matrix had a "reality vs. make-believe" feel to it. By that I a mean, it was believeable to a certain extent....now Neo is flying around and everybody is doing crazy stunts off cars and crap like that. The movie is cool but it really lost a certain edge that the first one had.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Chaplin
But IMO that hurts the film immensely. That first speech by Morpheus in the first movie could have been written much better. As a writer, the quality of writing means a lot to me in a film. It's actually the script that makes the difference between the two cuts of Blade Runner. And just like a movie can be underwritten, it can be overwritten--which both Matrix movies are. But that's just my preference.

As to the mythology, Star Wars is more than just a movie, it is, as cliched as it sounds, a way of life. That's what makes it better.

As a writer, I am shocked at your opinion of Minority Report. That movie had all the tools at it's disposal and failed miserably, not to mention it was ridiculously predictable. Talk about a movie not following the rules it set out for itself. Gotta say, it looked incredible though - although almos anything Januz Kaminski touches looks awesome.

And Blade Runner - man - is it me or is that a movie that you either love and revere or just hate it and don't understand what all the fuss is about. I don't know anyone that thinks Blade Runenr is just OK - it's always one extreme or the other.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
As a writer, I am shocked at your opinion of Minority Report. That movie had all the tools at it's disposal and failed miserably, not to mention it was ridiculously predictable. Talk about a movie not following the rules it set out for itself. Gotta say, it looked incredible though - although almos anything Januz Kaminski touches looks awesome.

And Blade Runner - man - is it me or is that a movie that you either love and revere or just hate it and don't understand what all the fuss is about. I don't know anyone that thinks Blade Runenr is just OK - it's always one extreme or the other.

I agree completely with your review of Minority Report. The basic plot, who was the murderer, was laughable! It was basically the same as Monsters Inc.. Yeah, the killer is the leader, the mentor etc. How many movies have used that plot? Dozens? Hundreds? That movie could have been so much better.

Loved Blade Runner. Loved the look, the plot, the characters. One of the best sci-fi movies ever IMO.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

I was bored out of my mind in Bladerunner, and I've only seen Minority Report once, as opposed to seeing The Matrix at least 15 times.

I could watch Matrix over and over, and I don't think in any way was it overrated. If anything, it's better that Minority Report, if not just as good.

How else do you explain a sequel that smashed all kinds of opening records for an R-rated movie? Or for any movie for that matter?

People LOVED the first one, wanted to see the second. I can't imagine a sequel to Minority Report would even come close to what Reloaded did.

Mike

 

[Dan H]

Eh, Equilibrium was better than all of them.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Chandler Mike


People LOVED the first one, wanted to see the second. I can't imagine a sequel to Minority Report would even come close to what Reloaded did.

Mike

Whatever. This has nothing to do with what a "sequel" to Minority Report would do. And I don't care what a movie "does". Dumb and Dumberer is going to make a ton of money, does that make it some great thing??

By the way, I saw Matrix Reloaded again last night, and my original thought that the Oracle had a hand in creating the Matrix is wrong. The Oracle was created (probably by the Architect) to give the machines an idea of human physiology in order to exploit them to their fullest capacity. But somewhere along the way, she became almost human herself.

The Matrix is basically a cycle--everything is Zion, but in order to keep the human defiance in check (stemming from making different choices), the Matrix created Zion and the One in order to complete a cycle. Everything up until the point Neo has to make a choice points to him choosing the door with the Source. Unfortunately, this 6th "One" has something the other 5 "Ones" didn't have: Trinity. It is this choice that screws everything up. Of course, the architect says that if he chooses that door the human race will be exterminated. But he was probably just blowing smoke up Neo's arse.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Whatever. This has nothing to do with what a "sequel" to Minority Report would do. And I don't care what a movie "does". Dumb and Dumberer is going to make a ton of money, does that make it some great thing??

"Whatever"....good response there Chap

It has a little to do with a sequel...any movie that has a sequel that breaks major records HAS to be good. It had to have some appeal to its audience or why the record turnout for the sequel?

All we're saying, is that WE enjoyed the Matrix more than Minority report...sure, it was a great movie, but that doesn't mean Matrix wasn't great as well.

Mike

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Chandler Mike

It has a little to do with a sequel...any movie that has a sequel that breaks major records HAS to be good. It had to have some appeal to its audience or why the record turnout for the sequel?

Mike

You've just GOT to be kidding, right? Again, I bring up Dumb and Dumberer. How about the sequel to Dude, Where's My Car?

That logic is so flawed chickflickski, I can't even compose my thoughts after reading that...

Again, this isn't about audience turnout. Again, people will come out in droves for Dumb & Dumberer. I don't care about box office--it is a known fact that the best movies make the least amount of money anyway...

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Originally posted by Chaplin

Again, this isn't about audience turnout. Again, people will come out in droves for Dumb & Dumberer. I don't care about box office--it is a known fact that the best movies make the least amount of money anyway...

The same could be said for movies that win the Oscar. I don't have any examples but it seems more times than not movies win from Hollywood politics more than because they deserve it.

What makes a good movie?

Depends on the individual..

Me- I like
A good plot
excellent stunts
excellent graphics
Violence (not unnecessary violence like "Total Recall")
Romance (okay... not really but it helps get the wife in the mood on occasion )

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Chaplin
You've just GOT to be kidding, right? Again, I bring up Dumb and Dumberer. How about the sequel to Dude, Where's My Car?

That logic is so flawed chickflickski, I can't even compose my thoughts after reading that...

Again, this isn't about audience turnout. Again, people will come out in droves for Dumb & Dumberer. I don't care about box office--it is a known fact that the best movies make the least amount of money anyway...

Wow, I think only two people are allowed to call me that, and you're not one of them.

Please, a sequel to Dude, Where's My Car MIGHT make $18 million, but how on EARTH does that compare to $105 million? Even Dumb and Dumberer wont make $50 without Carrey and Daniels, I can tell you that.

I think my logic is sound...as ONE gauge to judge how good a movie was received. I'm not saying it's the ONLy gauge, but I think it's pretty big. If you put out sequels to Matrix and Report at the same time, Matrix would win...maybe that doesn't mean Matrix was the better movie, but it sure shows which movie people liked the best.

Mike

 

[Audrey19]

I think someone who has seen a movie 15 times in the theatre is slightly biased.

Didn't Matrix start on a Wednesday or Thursday night? Are the figures from that night to Sunday... or from Friday to Sunday like a TRUE weekend opening would be gauged from? And if it was such a great movie, wouldn't it still be #1 in the box office and not falling fast?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Chandler Mike


I think my logic is sound...as ONE gauge to judge how good a movie was received. I'm not saying it's the ONLy gauge, but I think it's pretty big. If you put out sequels to Matrix and Report at the same time, Matrix would win...maybe that doesn't mean Matrix was the better movie, but it sure shows which movie people liked the best.

Mike

Okay, well, the sequel to Matrix has already made more money than the original. According to your logic, that makes the sequel better.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Okay, well, the sequel to Matrix has already made more money than the original. According to your logic, that makes the sequel better.

You obviously have no clue about what I'm trying to say...and I'm done talking about it, this is getting nowhere.

Mike

 

[Chaplin]

Obviously.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Audrey19
I think someone who has seen a movie 15 times in the theatre is slightly biased.

Didn't Matrix start on a Wednesday or Thursday night? Are the figures from that night to Sunday... or from Friday to Sunday like a TRUE weekend opening would be gauged from? And if it was such a great movie, wouldn't it still be #1 in the box office and not falling fast?

And another post from someone who obviously has missed the point of my posts, and maybe you didn't read them?

I've never once said Matrix Reloaded was good, we're talking about the FIRST one here, compared to Minority Report.

Mike

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Chandler Mike
And another post from someone who obviously has missed the point of my posts, and maybe you didn't read them?

I've never once said Matrix Reloaded was good, we're talking about the FIRST one here, compared to Minority Report.

Mike

I just mentioned that I thought Minority Report is better than Matrix (I still think that), and you have turned it into a huge arguement where you have no problem saying, "I don't understand what you are writing". Just because I don't agree with you and think your logic is flawed.