New Topic: Let's Talk Three Pointers

[Sunsman44]

Simple question: Are this season's Suns going to be the worst of the past three seasons in terms of 3-point shooting?

In the past, Suns usually had at least three to four 3-point shooters lined up at all times.

Remeber the Richardson, Johnson, Nash, and Jim Jackson lineup in 2004? Not to mention Marion was a decent 3-point shooter then.

Remember the backcourt of Nash and House alongside Bell, a decent James Jones, and 3-point bomber Tim Thomas of 2005? And Marion was still a very good 3-point shooter then, too.

Last season, Marion's 3-point shooting declined, as did James Jones'. Now, Marion is going to play a lot of four and you have two other guys who cannot really shoot the three: Diaw and Hill.

While Nash will be busy creating and distributing (aka running an entire team on his shoulders) the only other options at the three-point category are Bell and Barbosa.

Is this going to be enough?

Can Marion and Hill bounce back and be 3-point threats?

Do you think the rookies may develop a shooting stroke and get play time to help with the 3-pointers?

Do Suns even need to be a 3-point team?

 

[playstation]

yes they will still be awesome 3 pt threats. what will happen is that overall attempts will go down, but not by the full amount of the people that aren't here. some of the slack will be taken by bell and barbosa and thus team % will actually go up.

also, as much as i hate to say it, amare is going to shoot em this year.

also, marion hasn't been a good 3pt shooter in 4 years, so that is just plain wrong. his 3pt attempts have also dwindled for the last 3 years, so that is good.

its not about having more shooters, its about having good ones and people knowing their roles. the guys we have shooting (nash, bell, barbosa) shoot em at 45%. that's insane. i'd rather they take all of them rather than have to share with james jones, marion, etc

 

[Sunsman44]

also, as much as i hate to say it, amare is going to shoot em this year.

I'd rather keep Amare in the paint. No need to go outside his jurisdiction. Bad enough Marion, the power forward, hangs out around the 3 point line.

 

[The_Matrix]

I though it would be interesting to compare our three point shooting vs Spurs. Last year Spurs were 595-1561 for 38.1%, we were 785-1965 for just under 40%

High percentage corner camper: Bowen/Bell
Low percentage big man: Horry/Marion
Best all around option: Ginobili/Nash
Gunners off bench: Finley+Barry/Barbosa

I think three good shooters and one x-factor is more than enough. Some playoff teams like the Nuggets and Cavs dream about having 3 quality three point shooters. Losing James Jones will hurt a bit, despite his issues he did shoot 37.8% and hit 90 three pointers.

Most likely Hill won't chuck up too many threes, and I think that's a good thing. What our offense missed last year was a "swingman slasher" type who attacks the rim, draws fouls and doesn't rely on Nash for easy setups. Everyone knows Marion can't dribble and Amare is a product of Nash's passing. Grant Hill bridges the gap between Amare and Marion in the paint vs. Nash/Bell/Barbosa bombing away long range.

Our offense SHOULD be filthy, unstoppable, better than last year. Think about it, we were the #1 offense last year in almost every category, while suffering through starting Diaw (9ppg) or JJ (6ppg) every night. Now we start a 15ppg type guy in Grant Hill, who's unselfish and great for team chemistry. We won't be muttering, "When's Barbs coming in?" every night as JJ clanks open 3 pointers.

 

[yeahone]

Lets talk 3 pointers

hill averaged around 15 point last year being the second option i know that he is not selfish and a great fit for he suns but could he averaging the same numbers being the 4th or 5th option on the team?remember there is only one ball at a time on the court

 

[Sunsman44]

Yes, one of the biggest problems last year with that "5th person" in the lineup.

Usually it was James Jones clanking up bricks, sometimes Jalen Rose, and even Jumaine Jones got in there for about 10 games or so with decent playing time and no success.

Suns now have 7 legit players with Banks/Skinner/Tucker/Strawberry as the 8th and 9th guy.

 

[Maligzar]

I'd rather keep Amare in the paint. No need to go outside his jurisdiction. Bad enough Marion, the power forward, hangs out around the 3 point line.

I think you are misunderstanding the times when Amare shooting the 3 will be of use. We're talking 2-3 times a game. Inbounds plays for the most part.

He's not going to camp out at the 3 point line so Grant Hill and Shawn Marion can bang it up on the inside...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Simple question: Are this season's Suns going to be the worst of the past three seasons in terms of 3-point shooting?

You are the Neil Cavuto of the Suns board.

 

[Errntknght]

Diaw's 3pt shooting pct has been steadily improving - 33.3% last year and 26.7%, 18.0%, 23.1% going backward in time. He surpassed Shawn last year (31.5%) but he only took one fourth as many of them. He's not on a par with Tim Thomas yet but he's going the right direction... now if he was just a threat to drive from that far out...

 

[azirish]

Last year Jones took 238 three point attempts, or 12% of the team's threes:

Bell 205 of 496
Barbosa 190 of 438
Nash 156 of 343
Marion 80 of 252

Jones 90 of 238
Rose 21 of 47

The one guy who is generally left out of the equasion is Pike. He's a career 39.9% three point shooter. As recently as 2004-05 he shot 57 of 134 in just 12.4 minutes in 68 games. He barely played during the last two seasons, although in very brief minutes he shot 38.9% with the Suns. He's a defensive liability, but should be able to replace Rose and perhaps get short minutes when playing against someone who is not a major offensive threat.

 

[Sunsman44]

The one guy who is generally left out of the equasion is Pike. He's a career 39.9% three point shooter. As recently as 2004-05 he shot 57 of 134 in just 12.4 minutes in 68 games. He barely played during the last two seasons, although in very brief minutes he shot 38.9% with the Suns. He's a defensive liability, but should be able to replace Rose and perhaps get short minutes when playing against someone who is not a major offensive threat.

I think it would be safe to say that Mr. Pike will get no more than 4 minutes and three games playing time the entire season - so therefore he is best left off this discussion.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

You are the Neil Cavuto of the Suns board.

omg I actually belly giggled when I read this. While im opening this link im asking myself, why the hell is sunsman such a fearmonger??? Why do I keep having the thought that the sky is falling!? Its like watching fox news at work (i work in a newsroom).

 

[dodie53]

the suns will be a 3pt shooting team no matter what.,

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I think the addition of Grant will help in two ways.

A) he has been working on his 3shot. While it may not be phenomenal he will be worth guarding on the line.

B) his playmaking and slashing will help open up the floor more than any other small forward we've had recently, creating more open 3 point attempts.

 

[azirish]

Banks shot the three well in his brief stint during summer league. It may have been a fluke, but he might surprise if by some fluke he plays.

 

[Sunsman44]

Fearmonger:

One who spreads the idealogy of fear through propoganda to fulfill a concealed agenda. Similar to a terrorist, but it fights with information and not direct violence. Politicians, media personas, and internet posters can all be fearmongers.

Neil Cavuto:

He is a television host and commentator currently hosting Your World and Cavuto On Business on the Fox News Channel. Paul Krugman writing in the New York Times used Cavuto as an example of a new breed of news anchor for whom "the formal rules and the codes of ethics that formerly prevented blatant partisanship are gone or ignored."

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And how exactly am I both a "fearmonger" and "Neil Cavuto" ? Doesn't make any sense.

If you happen to have read my article up top, you'd see I did not say Suns are a bad 3-point shooting team at all. Conversely, I think the Suns are actually going to be one of the top 3 point shooting clubs in the NBA.

I posed several questions, hence the question marks, for people to elaborate their opinions about three point shooting.

I hate how some people (specifically two of you and u know who u are) jump to conclusions where in fact you have not read a SINGLE ****ING WORD FROM THE ORIGINAL POST.

 

[dodie53]

 

[Sunsman44]

the suns will be a 3pt shooting team no matter what.,

Well, you're right. And I think this too.

However, for this to happen, they really need Boris and Marion to nail their 3's - but NOT too many - and Grant Hill must also develop his own 3-point shot too.

Teams already know that Nash, Barbs, and Bell can nail them.

If Hill, Boris, and Matrix can do the same - then the opposing defenses will be scrambling all over in confusion. These defenses will be foced to stretch out leaving Amare open in the middle.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Fearmonger:

One who spreads the idealogy of fear through propoganda to fulfill a concealed agenda. Similar to a terrorist, but it fights with information and not direct violence. Politicians, media personas, and internet posters can all be fearmongers.

Neil Cavuto:

He is a television host and commentator currently hosting Your World and Cavuto On Business on the Fox News Channel. Paul Krugman writing in the New York Times used Cavuto as an example of a new breed of news anchor for whom "the formal rules and the codes of ethics that formerly prevented blatant partisanship are gone or ignored."

-------------------

And how exactly am I both a "fearmonger" and "Neil Cavuto" ? Doesn't make any sense.

If you happen to have read my article up top, you'd see I did not say Suns are a bad 3-point shooting team at all. Conversely, I think the Suns are actually going to be one of the top 3 point shooting clubs in the NBA.

I posed several questions, hence the question marks, for people to elaborate their opinions about three point shooting.

I hate how some people (specifically two of you and u know who u are) jump to conclusions where in fact you have not read a SINGLE ****ING WORD FROM THE ORIGINAL POST.

Neil Cavuto is a media persona who displays his fearmongering by posing multiple loaded questions through his programming.

I dont care if you agree or disagree with that, but how do you not understand how you can be compared to both?

You used a fear-laden loaded question to draw intrigue into your subject matter. Its not a crime, but dont be surprised if someone brings it up.

I will gladly swap out Cavuto with O'Reilly if you prefer.

p.s. I see youre back to using caps and bold to accentuate the highlights of your 4 phrase post. Please dont bring back color coding to your arsenal anytime soon.

 

[arwillan]

Well, you're right. And I think this too.

However, for this to happen, they really need Boris and Marion to nail their 3's - but NOT too many - and Grant Hill must also develop his own 3-point shot too.

Teams already know that Nash, Barbs, and Bell can nail them.

If Hill, Boris, and Matrix can do the same - then the opposing defenses will be scrambling all over in confusion. These defenses will be foced to stretch out leaving Amare open in the middle.

Grant Hill develop a 3? that's a very dumb idea. he is what he is, and at this stage in his career he wont be changing that. not to mention that shooting 3's would make him less effective as a slasher, which is what the suns picked him up to be. if he isnt going to score in the lane and create plays, he may as well not be here.

the same for boris though he is yound enough to develop a perimeter game. the problem with that is he is an inside guy who beats people inside with quickness. shooting 3's is addicting because it doesn't take any work to set up like the post game does, and people tend to get sucked into shooting too many of them. if boris became a 3 pt threat, he would be much less effective inside.

marion with a 3 pt shot may not be too bad. his percentage was something like 33% last year which isnt horrible but certainly could be better. i think in his case, the outside game would set him up with some chances to cut to the basket because he is not typically a go-to-guy on offense.

as it is teams will be scrambling to guard the suns on defense. that is what run 'n' gun is all about. bell in the corner, nash/hill passing, amare in the post, marion slashing for alley oops or tip ins is plenty for any defense out there to worry about at one time. if hill is passing, you have nash (possibly the best pure shooter out there other than ray allen) sitting around waiting for an open 3. that is simply too good to guard easily.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Grant Hill develop a 3? that's a very dumb idea. he is what he is, and at this stage in his career he wont be changing that. not to mention that shooting 3's would make him less effective as a slasher, which is what the suns picked him up to be. if he isnt going to score in the lane and create plays, he may as well not be here.

the same for boris though he is yound enough to develop a perimeter game. the problem with that is he is an inside guy who beats people inside with quickness. shooting 3's is addicting because it doesn't take any work to set up like the post game does, and people tend to get sucked into shooting too many of them. if boris became a 3 pt threat, he would be much less effective inside.

marion with a 3 pt shot may not be too bad. his percentage was something like 33% last year which isnt horrible but certainly could be better. i think in his case, the outside game would set him up with some chances to cut to the basket because he is not typically a go-to-guy on offense.

as it is teams will be scrambling to guard the suns on defense. that is what run 'n' gun is all about. bell in the corner, nash/hill passing, amare in the post, marion slashing for alley oops or tip ins is plenty for any defense out there to worry about at one time. if hill is passing, you have nash (possibly the best pure shooter out there other than ray allen) sitting around waiting for an open 3. that is simply too good to guard easily.

a) dantoni has said he is pushing hill to add a 3, hill has said he is working on his 3, and adding a 3 point threat makes his defender guard him closer at the line allowing him to slash more effectively.

as for marion and diaw, im indifferent to their 3 point attempts. While I may cringe when they toss one up, it keeps the spirit of the suns style alive and lets me breathe a sigh of relief when one third of them fall in

 

[Sunsman44]

Grant Hill develop a 3? that's a very dumb idea.

I stopped reading your essay pretty much after the word "idea" in the first sentence above. No need to read any further.

D'Antoni even said he is going to make Hill try to take more 3 pointers. It is not MY idea! I am in support of it, coach Arwillan.

Plus Grant has said to be shooting great threes in practice.

 

[arwillan]

I stopped reading your essay pretty much after the word "idea" in the first sentence above. No need to read any further.

D'Antoni even said he is going to make Hill try to take more 3 pointers. It is not MY idea! I am in support of it, coach Arwillan.

Plus Grant has said to be shooting great threes in practice.

upon reading my post again, i have discovered that nowhere did i say "that's a dumb idea that SUNSMAN44 had". i just said i think it's a dumb idea and have a simple explanation for saying so. i could care less if D'antoni said it or not. he is obsessed with people taking 3's and running like crazy, nothing new there. shooting 3's well or not doesnt change my thoughts. it will take away from his effectiveness

 

[arwillan]

a) dantoni has said he is pushing hill to add a 3, hill has said he is working on his 3, and adding a 3 point threat makes his defender guard him closer at the line allowing him to slash more effectively.

that is all fine and dandy but i fear that it takes away from his ability to create plays and distribute, as i said. if his defender jams him at the 3-point line, he doesnt see the court as well and has more pressure on him to pass the ball away without setting up a play. nash is just nash which is why he is able to work around people coming out to guard him, but a lot of teams would rather he knocks down shots rather than find a way to get his team mates involved so that may also contribute

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I dont think he will be in the cherry picking type of 3 point mentality. I think it will be more of a convenience thing. If he happens to be at the 3 he is going to take it, but it definitely wont be his focus. If they are in a half court setup, he may start at the 3 line, and this will greatly open the paint, however for the rest of the run and gun style i dont think this will be his focus. If he is going to play for dantoni, he will need to add it to his arsenal. I am sure he knew this would be coming before he even made his decision to play here.