NFL upholds Tom Brady's four-game 'Deflategate' suspension

Cardiac

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Yep, the Commissioner enjoys the black eye this is giving the NFL and has a burning hatred towards Brady and the Patriots. Obviously he is gunning for Brady and has set him up to be banned because it serves the NFL ........... oh wait, it does nothing to help the NFL brand.
 

CardsFan88

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I'd say those texts off the deflator & other guys phones are pretty clear what took place. I like Brady but the guy was clearly lying before the SB on his knowledge.

All those coincidences & he had nothing to do with it? Come on

You see this is where things get fuzzy and aren't easy. It's easy to just want to take the easy way out, but the easy way doesn't mean the correct path is followed.

You're right on face value, if no one knows anything about anything else, it looks pretty guilty.

But it is hardly damning evidence. If this is the most concrete thing the NFL has, and it seems it is their strongest evidence, I think they should just let it go if they can't find something else.

They are trying to make us believe because the balls were underinflated (which was proved to not necessarily be true especially when compared to Indy's footballs), and the term that arose AFTER the fact was 'deflategate', that somehow because someone used the word deflator in a text, this implies guilt.

Deflator ----- Deflategate

Now the NFL can try to find out more, but it seems like they've hit a dead end, and just want to roll with this, and that he 'destroyed' his phone by upgrading it on schedule somehow confirms this.

It's a pretty shaky rationale to begin with, and the confirmation is equally shaky.

Now, maybe the Patriots are full of it, they definitely have reason to be full of it, but there are times in life where things without proper context can completely be opposite of reality. There are times in life, though rare, that situations can paint someone in a bad light and are simply circumstantial.

"Mr. Jastremski would sometimes work out and bulk up -- he is a slender guy and his goal was to get to 200 pounds. Mr. McNally is a big fellow and had the opposite goal: to lose weight. 'Deflate' was a term they used to refer to losing weight. One can specifically see this use of the term in a Nov. 30, 2014 text from Mr. McNally to Mr. Jastremski: 'deflate and give somebody that jacket.' ... This banter, and Mr. McNally's goal of losing weight, meant Mr. McNally was the 'deflator.' There was nothing complicated or sinister about it."

Now this quote, and the reference to the Nov 30th text message, clearly shows a potential for something to seem criminal, but not be. Clearly the term deflator was used months prior to actual accusation of a crime.

In fact, because he handled the equipment, including the balls, that would in fact provide a rationale for a moniker to be given to such a person. Because often times, people get monikers that are related to something about them... their appearance, their ability/or lack of it on something, their job...

What if Tom Brady was completely innocent, but because of this banter, he felt he looked guilty. Would destruction of his phone prove his guilt then? So it's even possible that Brady DID get rid of his phone, because innocent banter looked like evidence against him. That is definitely possible.

In absence of actual proof, even without this text message to provide context, I would be against levying penalties against Brady, because they really don't have anything concrete. But with this, you are basically in a tit-for-tat situation. Cheater or not, I don't see sufficient reason to punish him.

Besides, even if they proved the guy DID deflate it knowingly, they haven't provided any proof that Brady directed it. Hell it's possible that in practice maybe Brady likes a deflated ball, and perhaps he does it. There could be text messages even regarding that... but that wouldn't mean he directed him to do it during a game.

Even beyond that there's a chance that perhaps the guy went rogue, and knowing the importance of the games, did it without him knowing. Yes, this can indeed happen. It gets shrugged off as impossible, but it is indeed possible.

Why should Brady get disciplined if he didn't know about it?

So overall we get back down to everything, what have they proved? The answer is, nothing really. They perhaps have some text messages, not from Brady, and nothing in them showcases Brady knew or directed them to do anything.

Again maybe he's guilty, but the NFL hasn't proved anything, and is just grasping at straws. Perhaps those straws do have some validity if we were god and knew everything, but we don't, and I don't like the NFL pretending they know for a fact, when they don't, and levying so called justice.

It's not about what we believe might happen based on tea leaves, it's about actual facts, and we really don't have enough to support one way or another. There is a lot of conflicting information, and overall the NFL and Goodell have botched this investigation good.

Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather let 100 guilty men go unpunished then let one man get wrongly punished. After all, if he was guilty we should look down on him for it, but overall this is a very trivial thing. This isn't bountygate where people were out for heads. So the desire of the NFL to push this to the extreme seems a bit baffling. Especially when I don't see any investigation or hint of even trying to fact finding on Rodgers or anyone else.

Even the rationale behind all this is the fact that this was an offense whose penalty is a fine. While true the 'Nixon' standard gets trotted out, that the coverup was what got him... that was because he was covering up during a true legal process. The NFL's is not. So the whole coverup thing shouldn't be applicable to a non-legal basis, as they haven't bypassed any true legal process, and no they haven't proved he covered anything up either.

It's like we're/media/NFL are taking shortcuts on everything and just trying to railroad Brady. I don't like that.
 
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BigRedRage

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So what is your opinion of Lance Armstrong. Did your opinion of him change when it was proven he took performance enhancing drugs and then lied about it for years?

I never had an opinion on him due to not following cycling.

But taking PEDs to get a distinct advantage in cycling is different than changing the PSI in his tires IMO.

I dont like steroids in baseball unless everyone can do them.

I dont mind steroids in football :shrug:
 

juza76

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i think cheat to take advantage of your opponent as brady did should be punished more severely then smoking pot.
there are proof about his intentions,4 games not enough,ridicolous
 
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TJ

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Yep but Tom is taking a huge risk imo & I think he's guilty as hell.

Worst-case scenario, his suspension is again upheld. He's not going to self-incriminate nor is the league going to impose further punishment to the team or to the player.
 

Dude

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IMO, this is similar to the USC punishment from the NCAA...It wasn't so much the infraction, as it was the way they thumbed their nose at everyone and gave them the finger, instead of just being contrite and owning up to it.

This.
 

BullheadCardFan

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NFL offered Brady “at least 50 percent” reduction in exchange for admission of guilt

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the NFL was willing to drop the suspension by “at least 50 percent” if Brady: (1) admitted to having knowledge of whatever John Jastremski and Jim McNally were doing to the footballs; (2) admitted to failing to cooperate with the Ted Wells investigation; and (3) apologized.

It’s believed that Brady’s suspension would have been dropped at least to two games, with the possibility of dropping it to one if he were sufficiently persuasive and profuse in his acceptance of guilt.
 

TJ

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IMO, this is similar to the USC punishment from the NCAA...It wasn't so much the infraction, as it was the way they thumbed their nose at everyone and gave them the finger, instead of just being contrite and owning up to it.

Not the best example as word has come out that the NCAA took biased action against USC.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/mcnair-671941-ncaa-documents.html

I guess the comparison fits as both the NCAA and NFL make a bevy of head scratching moves.
 

jeeperaz

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NFL offered Brady “at least 50 percent” reduction in exchange for admission of guilt


It’s believed that Brady’s suspension would have been dropped at least to two games, with the possibility of dropping it to one if he were sufficiently persuasive and profuse in his acceptance of guilt.


That is almost sickening and reeks of league propaganda. Brady doesnt care about how many games he's suspended for unless that number is 0.

Goodell & Co: 'We think you are guilty Tom but we would like you to admit guilt or try to prove your innocence'.

Innocent until proven guilty... one of those sacred principles of our nation means nothing in this case.
 

Azlen

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Innocent until proven guilty... one of those sacred principles of our nation means nothing in this case.

You do realize that this isn't a government thing but an employee/employer thing? Stuff like freedom of speech and other governmental rights don't always apply to the work place.
 

Jim Otis

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If Brady files a lawsuit it will be in a government court room . where the NFL will have to meet a burden of proof. I have doubts that the NFL could prove to 12 people that Brady is guilty .
 

RON_IN_OC

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If Brady files a lawsuit it will be in a government court room . where the NFL will have to meet a burden of proof. I have doubts that the NFL could prove to 12 people that Brady is guilty .

The other side of that coin is that in a real court of law, the NFL can now subpoena anything and everything...and Brady would have to testify as to why the phones in question are destroyed (he says he does it all the time) but the phone used prior is still available. Many cans of worms will be opened up...IMO.
 

Cheesebeef

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If Brady files a lawsuit it will be in a government court room . where the NFL will have to meet a burden of proof. I have doubts that the NFL could prove to 12 people that Brady is guilty .

That's not how it works, I don't think. The judge will rule on matter of NFL procedure.
 

Cardiac

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I never had an opinion on him due to not following cycling.

But taking PEDs to get a distinct advantage in cycling is different than changing the PSI in his tires IMO.

I dont like steroids in baseball unless everyone can do them.

I dont mind steroids in football :shrug:

I don't really follow cycling either but a USA pride thing had me respecting him, until he was caught doing roids etc. and has denied it forever. Dudes a liar and a cheat and leveraged his testicular cancer for hyping his brand. Probably got the cancer from doing the roids etc.

I don't believe as a society we should ignore or turn a blind eye to behavior that is criminal etc. You cheat you pay the price. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I honestly can't understand why I have to say these things.
 

jeeperaz

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You do realize that this isn't a government thing but an employee/employer thing? Stuff like freedom of speech and other governmental rights don't always apply to the work place.


Sure.... CBA and all that.

As a long time, self-employed person, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the kind of power Goodell has. There would be no way I would hand my personal phone over to an employer. There would be no way I would accept punishment without being proven guilty.
 

Cardiac

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If Brady files a lawsuit it will be in a government court room . where the NFL will have to meet a burden of proof. I have doubts that the NFL could prove to 12 people that Brady is guilty .

Can't say you are wrong but I promise if I'm on the jury I vote guilty. Brady's explanations/lies are obviously bull crap and I can't understand why there is even a discussion otherwise.
 

BigRedRage

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I don't really follow cycling either but a USA pride thing had me respecting him, until he was caught doing roids etc. and has denied it forever. Dudes a liar and a cheat and leveraged his testicular cancer for hyping his brand. Probably got the cancer from doing the roids etc.

I don't believe as a society we should ignore or turn a blind eye to behavior that is criminal etc. You cheat you pay the price. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I honestly can't understand why I have to say these things.
Who said anything about turning a blind eye to criminal behavior? Did Brady break the law or something? Armstrong cheated on much worse ways and yes I agree on him. On Brady? IMO it is overblown.

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk
 

TJ

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Can't say you are wrong but I promise if I'm on the jury I vote guilty. Brady's explanations/lies are obviously bull crap and I can't understand why there is even a discussion otherwise.

Wont be a jury trial. The federal judge will make a unilateral decision.
 

Cardiac

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Wont be a jury trial. The federal judge will make a unilateral decision.

My point is that Brady is a liar and a cheater and has issues. So the evidence may be circumstantial but it's so obvious that Brady wanted the balls deflated, spent a good deal of time ensuring that it happened, and is now trying to cover it up.
 

Stout

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My point is that Brady is a liar and a cheater and has issues. So the evidence may be circumstantial but it's so obvious that Brady wanted the balls deflated, spent a good deal of time ensuring that it happened, and is now trying to cover it up.

Yep. Dude admitted he destroyed the phone on the eve of his hearing. He admitted destroying the evidence. Sorry, Tom Terrific, you're a moron and deserve what you got. If you and the Cheatriots had owned up to it in the first place, you'd have been fined. Thinking you can get away with it and flipping everyone the bird about it got you four games.

I hope there's a temporary injunction so he doesn't have to serve the suspension yet, and that he has to serve it come playoff time. That'd be soooo sweet.
 

CardsFan88

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He didn't admit to destroying the phone. He admitted he got a new phone, as he regularly does, and gets rid of the old one.

ESPN and others via the NFL's propaganda has formed an incorrect opinion on the matter, using optics as the rationale for everything. They've employed it many times on this.

Great piece. Shows how easily people get taken for fools.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...gather-missing-text-messages/#comment-4394805

Because a multi-million dollar investigation can't look at a couple hundred or a couple dozen short text messages.

They can't try to match up the ballboy's number and Brady's number? To see if it is even there?

People assumed that some of those text messages were sent to Brady... well if so, why didn't that match up his number? They obviously knew it.

Yes this goes out to Goodell, the NFL, and the media at large....


You must be registered for see images attach


And remember people, this is the exact type of propaganda that happens everyday about life and death issues as well. Afterall, if they'll stoop to this level about air in a football, just imagine what they'll do about actual important stuff.
 
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moklerman

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And remember people, this is the exact type of propaganda that happens everyday about life and death issues as well. Afterall, if they'll stoop to this level about air in a football, just imagine what they'll do about actual important stuff.
And just imagine everything Brady and the Patriots have gotten away with to feel such a sense of entitlement and immunity.

Many players/teams in the league are sick of the rampant, continual cheating by the Patriots and as more and more of their antics are exposed, the more the integrity of the game suffers. They deserve a harsh penalty and what they got isn't even close to good enough IMO.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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This just in:
Brady never knew about the balls being deflated
Lance Armstrong wasn't doping
Rafael Palmeiro, never, never ever, did steroids
Mark McGwire is not hear to talk about that
Sammy Sosa doesn't speak English
and Pete Rose never bet on baseball.
 

Buckybird

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This just in:
Brady never knew about the balls being deflated
Lance Armstrong wasn't doping
Rafael Palmeiro, never, never ever, did steroids
Mark McGwire is not hear to talk about that
Sammy Sosa doesn't speak English
and Pete Rose never bet on baseball.

:thumbup:
Don't forget Arod, Ben Johnson & Marion Jones:p

The smoking gun & red flags are there & imo anyone believing he's innocent is out of touch with reality

Brady seemed to never cooperate & had numerous chances to prove he had nothing to do with this scandal & has yet to do that!!! Hmmmm
 
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