Niners Vs. Arizona by position

[azmike74]

Its funner to get told your an idiot than to be told your right....I already know that
quote]

Funner? For reals? Where's BIM?

 

[49erTroll]

WR-- Cardinals

QB-- Cardinals--Leinart hasn't proven anything, but Smith has already proven to suck. Our #2 is better.( Ill admit that Lienhart hasnt played much but you act like he hasnt played at all. I distinctlu remember him starting in the 3rd preseason game last year and just sucking horribly, which if Im not mistaken was the game that decided whether or not he'd start.) As far as Smith goes...

RB-- 49ers---Much closer than you think though. I think the Cards may run for more as a team this year (Your probably right)

TE-- 49ers

OL-- Cardinals-- 9ers had arguably the 2nd or 3rd worst line in the league over the last two years( No....the worst lol. So iupati and davis has to improve it, even if only a little. But until they prove it, you win)

DL-- Cardinals--- Either one of our DE's would be the best guy on your line and we just added the consesus #1 NT in the draft( wrong on two counts bub. Smith is the best 3-4 d-lineman in the league. He has the most pressures and more tackles than either of your guys and more FF. And I thought Suh was the best and Mcoy was 2nd best. I guess Im wrong and so where twenty five other teams that passed on Williams.

ILB-- 49ers-- win--no contest

OLB-- Cardinals-- Porter's sacks in last two years > all 49er OLBs last year ( Doesnt change the fact hes ummm OLD. But hes still better than what we got.)

S-- Cardinals-- with 2 Pro Bowlers starting, this isn't close (Got me there)

CB-- wash-- DRC better than Clements but you guys have better depth(agreed)

Coaching--- Cards-- Whiz is to Singletary what Cards are to 49ers---a two time division winner and a conference champ

( why do I put myself through this punishment...I feel less and less confident after every post ...damn it)

 

[PortlandCardFan]

The Niners are big poopy heads.

best post in this thread!

Craptastic!!!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

( wrong on two counts bub. Smith is the best 3-4 d-lineman in the league. He has the most pressures and more tackles than either of your guys and more FF. And I thought Suh was the best and Mcoy was 2nd best. I guess Im wrong and so where twenty five other teams that passed on Williams.

Dockett is miles ahead of Smith and Campbell/Smith is a wash. He said NT. There is a difference between NT in a 3-4 and DT/UT in a 4-3. You do know this right? McCoy and Suh are DT's in a 4-3.

 

[49erTroll]

Let me preface this by saying that you are currently my favorite visiting fan. Don't leave the board.

Moving right along, Adrian Peterson had the worst game of his career against us. Playing against your great run-stuffing line last year he had 85 yards on 19 carries and a 4.5 per carry average. Against us on MNF he had 13 carries for 19 yards and a 1.5 ypc average

http://www.nfl.com/players/adrianpeterson/gamelogs?id=PET260705

Did not know that...Kudos to ya.

 

[Matt L]

To throw my opinion on this topic out there again:

We've basically become optimistic about this team; Coach Whisenhunt and his staff have taught us that if they say something like "This player is going to be a stud" it's usually going to be true.

The team no longer is looking to only fill today's needs, it now looks to fill tommorrow's needs (O'Brien Schofield, John Skelton, and to a lesser extent Andre Roberts). The team is proactive now and gets players that would've been a luxury in other years (Alan Faneca, Bryan Robinson). They look to build quality depth and competition at every position (Derek Anderson, Rex Hadnot, Faneca) that there is uncertainty.

I don't see this approach with the Niners IMO. Where is the player to challenge Alex Smith? Sure David Carr could be considered that but Singletary has said that Smith is the unquestioned starter and it doesn't look like it's a competition. Also, the Niners didn't even try to address the offensive line with veterans, which would be more effective right away.

I would not rate Iupati as a top 30 player in the draft; only Steve Hutchinson types are top 30 players and Iupati isn't even close to as good as Hutch was coming out. He was not the best available player, nor the best available talent at a position of need. He was strictly a luxury pick and an overreaction. At the moment our signee Rex Hadnot is a better player and he was had quite cheaply, and he was one of the better starting guards in the NFL last year. All it would've taken was signing him and then using that pick on a player.

Despite what you think or may hope 49esTroll, Nate Clements was terrible the past two seasons, and has been one of the worst cornerbacks in the NFL. Notice I didn't say one of the worst STARTING cornerbacks, since many nickelbacks have outperformed him. Addressing cornerback at 17 would've allowed the 49ers to drastically improve the depth at the position and bumped Clements out of the starting lineup and allowed Clements to focus on ONLY covering big receivers. But Singletary's obsession with "smashmouth" 1980's Bears football (which is antiquated in today's NFL) lead to this IMO, terrible pick.

Also, look at the cap economics of paying FOUR first round offensive lineman....it's just a terrible waste of draft capital and shows no trust nor creativity. Look at many of the olines across the league and you will see that most of the good teams have quite a few late round guys starting; it's just not a value position and paying for FOUR 1st round linemen is going to come back and haunt the 9ers down the road (like I said earlier shortsightedness and the inability to develop players).

That is a great take.

 

[cardsfanmd]

( why do I put myself through this punishment...I feel less and less confident after every post ...damn it)

McCoy and Suh are 4-3 UTs, not 3-4 or 4-3 NTs. In a 3-4 either of them would be DEs.

 

[Catfish]

Hey, Welcome back 9er Troll-----hope you got a good night's sleep, I sure did. Hope you are enjoying your time on this board-----football has REALLY become fun here in the desert, and we love our ASFN Card's forum. Good stuff goes around and back and forth here. Enjoy-----

 

[Ronin]

I bet any team in the league would take wells over Gore at this point!.

Oh.... My......God!
Please make this bet with me!
Please!

 

[Mulli]

The 49ers are big poopy heads, and so am I!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

WR-- Cardinals

QB-- Cardinals--Leinart hasn't proven anything, but Smith has already proven to suck. Our #2 is better.

RB-- 49ers---Much closer than you think though. I think the Cards may run for more as a team this year

TE-- 49ers

OL-- Cardinals-- 9ers had arguably the 2nd or 3rd worst line in the league over the last two years

DL-- Cardinals--- Either one of our DE's would be the best guy on your line and we just added the consesus #1 NT in the draft

ILB-- 49ers-- win--no contest

OLB-- Cardinals-- Porter's sacks in last two years > all 49er OLBs last year

S-- Cardinals-- with 2 Pro Bowlers starting, this isn't close

CB-- wash-- DRC better than Clements but you guys have better depth

Coaching--- Cards-- Whiz is to Singletary what Cards are to 49ers---a two time division winner and a conference champ

To throw my opinion on this topic out there again:

We've basically become optimistic about this team; Coach Whisenhunt and his staff have taught us that if they say something like "This player is going to be a stud" it's usually going to be true.

The team no longer is looking to only fill today's needs, it now looks to fill tommorrow's needs (O'Brien Schofield, John Skelton, and to a lesser extent Andre Roberts). The team is proactive now and gets players that would've been a luxury in other years (Alan Faneca, Bryan Robinson). They look to build quality depth and competition at every position (Derek Anderson, Rex Hadnot, Faneca) that there is uncertainty.

I don't see this approach with the Niners IMO. Where is the player to challenge Alex Smith? Sure David Carr could be considered that but Singletary has said that Smith is the unquestioned starter and it doesn't look like it's a competition. Also, the Niners didn't even try to address the offensive line with veterans, which would be more effective right away.

I would not rate Iupati as a top 30 player in the draft; only Steve Hutchinson types are top 30 players and Iupati isn't even close to as good as Hutch was coming out. He was not the best available player, nor the best available talent at a position of need. He was strictly a luxury pick and an overreaction. At the moment our signee Rex Hadnot is a better player and he was had quite cheaply, and he was one of the better starting guards in the NFL last year. All it would've taken was signing him and then using that pick on a player.

Despite what you think or may hope 49esTroll, Nate Clements was terrible the past two seasons, and has been one of the worst cornerbacks in the NFL. Notice I didn't say one of the worst STARTING cornerbacks, since many nickelbacks have outperformed him. Addressing cornerback at 17 would've allowed the 49ers to drastically improve the depth at the position and bumped Clements out of the starting lineup and allowed Clements to focus on ONLY covering big receivers. But Singletary's obsession with "smashmouth" 1980's Bears football (which is antiquated in today's NFL) lead to this IMO, terrible pick.

Also, look at the cap economics of paying FOUR first round offensive lineman....it's just a terrible waste of draft capital and shows no trust nor creativity. Look at many of the olines across the league and you will see that most of the good teams have quite a few late round guys starting; it's just not a value position and paying for FOUR 1st round linemen is going to come back and haunt the 9ers down the road (like I said earlier shortsightedness and the inability to develop players).

Awesome posts.

This is what I wanted to say, but didn't have the time

Great stuff guys

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Oh.... My......God!
Please make this bet with me!
Please!

I think Beanie is going to have better numbers NEXT YEAR, but even if he doesn't, that still doesn't mean all 32 NFL GM's wouldn't take Beanie over the oft injured Gore for the next five years. I am not even sure how you can refute that. You do realize how close Gore is to the dreaded 30 years of age mark right?

You have seen the best of Frank whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Ronin]

I think Beanie is going to have better numbers NEXT YEAR, but even if he doesn't, that still doesn't mean all 32 NFL GM's wouldn't take Beanie over the oft injured Gore for the next five years. .

So......if Beanie doesn't have a better year than Gore, what exactly does it mean?

 

[49erTroll]

I dont buy most of what this troll is saying. The Cards DL and Secondary are much better than the niners across the board, and the coaching comparison is laughable. Ill take Singletary if I need someone to fire up the sales troops at the office, but not so much for strategy and X and O's.

But he is right about one thing. Gore alone is better than the Cards RB's combined. It sint that Wells and Hightower arent good (In fact Wells should be a 1200 yard rusher this year if healthy and we committ to the run like i think we will) but Gore is a frickin beast.

5 yards a carry
52 receptions
1500 combined yards
13 TD's

Gore is better. Hands down.

Thank you for that

 

[49erTroll]

G?

He is a tackle. You do realize that guards play on the offensive side of the football, right? Oh, and tackles are franchised nearly every year.

I didnt clarify I apologize, I was refering to the diffuculty and importance of a DT( D.Williams) VS. a G( Iupati). The relevance of the franchise tag statement was in regards to how important a player is to a team. Being that if they where easy to replace they wouldnt be so coveted so his previous statement about high conversion rates from college to the NFL is inaccurate.

 

[49erTroll]

I wouldn't worry about it. You're problem will be removing the size 12 EE jump boot that's been inserted up your butt if you don't wake up.

Seriously, I wish you all the luck in the world.

Thanks I really appreciate it.

 

[49erTroll]

It's amazing with your stacked roster that you lost to Seattle and got jackstomped in your own house by Atlanta.

45-10? Man, that must've been a fun game to sit through in that abomination of a stadium.

No it wasnt and please dont remind me

 

[gohard83]

Cardinals fans are always raving about DRC and Wilson, but the fact is that their secondary still sucks. You guys ranked 23rd in passing defense last year so please don't get cocky about having some Pro Bowl DBs.

Bias aside, these are the only solid points on the Cards:

In order:

1. DL
2. WR
3. RB

The rest of these are below average:

1. QB
2. TE
3. Oline
4. LB
5. DB
6. ST

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cardinals fans are always raving about DRC and Wilson, but the fact is that their secondary still sucks. You guys ranked 23rd in passing defense last year so please don't get cocky about having some Pro Bowl DBs.

Bias aside, these are the only solid points on the Cards:

In order:

1. DL
2. WR
3. RB

The rest of these are below average:

1. QB
2. TE
3. Oline
4. LB
5. DB
6. ST

And meanwhile, the only ones that you have are:

1. DL
2. RB
3. TE
4. LB

Both teams have a good deal of talent, but also have pretty big hole, making them at this point, without Kurt Warner, pretty even.

 

[49erTroll]

As you can see, none of us are impressed with Singletary.

He's an OK coach, but the Niners are getting by on young talent and I don't really believe he's a great coach.

The way he ran training camp led to the team sucking in the second half, since there was a lot of hitting. Coach Whisenhunt doesn't really push the players to hit in training camp because it causes the players to wear down at the end of the year.

Think of it this way: Whisenhunt was coaching a Super Bowl team by the end of his second season! I seriously doubt the 9ers will be in a Super Bowl next year.

I cant defend singletary the way ya' ll can can with Wiz, so Im kind of at a loss.

But I can speak from a personal standpoint...Niner fans are like me in the fact that we are skeptical and have high expectations. We have not had a good head coach since Walsh(please dont say mooch!) We have had horrible luck with O.C. s and admittedly we are probably willing to take anything decent at this point.

But thats not the case here. I understand yall won the division but the fact remains we went 6-2 in our division and we lost two close games against the colts and the vikings. I know you guys probably had a game or two that could have went differently but we where literally, no bull just two plays away from winning the division.

Favre-40 yrd t.d. with no time on the clock(BASTARD)

Colts-trick play near the end in which they had to result in there r.b. throwing a t.d. to win.

Those two plays dont happen and we are champs not you.

 

[Mulli]

I cant defend singletary the way ya' ll can can with Wiz, so Im kind of at a loss.

But I can speak from a personal standpoint...Niner fans are like me in the fact that we are skeptical and have high expectations. We have not had a good head coach since Walsh(please dont say mooch!) We have had horrible luck with O.C. s and admittedly we are probably willing to take anything decent at this point.

But thats not the case here. I understand yall won the division but the fact remains we went 6-2 in our division and we lost two close games against the colts and the vikings. I know you guys probably had a game or two that could have went differently but we where literally, no bull just two plays away from winning the division.

Favre-40 yrd t.d. with no time on the clock(BASTARD)

Colts-trick play near the end in which they had to result in there r.b. throwing a t.d. to win.

Those two plays dont happen and we are champs not you.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But Singletary's obsession with "smashmouth" 1980's Bears football (which is antiquated in today's NFL) lead to this IMO, terrible pick.

uh, Krang, you do realize every move on offense this off-season has been to gear us more toward this "antiquated" style of football, right? Focussing on O-linemen who excel in road grading rather than pass protection.

 

[gohard83]

And meanwhile, the only ones that you have are:

1. DL
2. RB
3. TE
4. LB

Both teams have a good deal of talent, but also have pretty big hole, making them at this point, without Kurt Warner, pretty even.

QB - Alex Smith threw 18 TDs and 12 ints last year stepping in the middle of the year. We have good reasons to believe that he's a solid QB right now.

Oline- Pathetic last year no question about it. We addressed this in the draft with Davis and Iupati.

WR - Crabtree performed last year even without training camp, preseason, and missing the first 5-6 games. He' going to be a top 15 WR next year. Josh Morgan, Ted Ginn Jr., Kyle Williams (ASU rookie), Brandon Jones, and Jason Hill provide a solid young back up corps.

Secondary - Our DBs were solid last year despite the 21st passing d ranking. The reason why we ranked so low was because we didn't stop the passes to the TEs and RBs. We held most of the WRs in check. With Mays coming in and Clements coming back, we will be able to play with much more physicality. Goldson, Mays, and Clements are a force to be reckon with.

ST - Our return game was terrible last year. However, this year we drafted some good retun guys and also traded for Ginn. I believe that this problem is solved.

Leroy Vann (NCAA KR PR record holder for return TDs):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4NvCMMHXgg

Kyle Williams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HzSB804F_Q

Ted Ginn Jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpI1wElYoCs

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I cant defend singletary the way ya' ll can can with Wiz, so Im kind of at a loss.

But I can speak from a personal standpoint...Niner fans are like me in the fact that we are skeptical and have high expectations. We have not had a good head coach since Walsh(please dont say mooch!) We have had horrible luck with O.C. s and admittedly we are probably willing to take anything decent at this point.

But thats not the case here. I understand yall won the division but the fact remains we went 6-2 in our division and we lost two close games against the colts and the vikings. I know you guys probably had a game or two that could have went differently but we where literally, no bull just two plays away from winning the division.

Favre-40 yrd t.d. with no time on the clock(BASTARD)

Colts-trick play near the end in which they had to result in there r.b. throwing a t.d. to win.

Those two plays dont happen and we are champs not you.

6-2 in the division?

Interesting given that you only play 6 in total.

So, if you'd picked those two extra wins in your dream-like scenario, you'd have 10 wins and beat us on the tie breaker... But, seeing that we are dealing in dreams, we wouldn't have lost on the last play of the game against the Titans... and would have had 11 wins.

THUS: We win the division, again!

 

[Cheesebeef]

QB - Alex Smith threw 18 TDs and 12 ints last year stepping in the middle of the year. We have good reasons to believe that he's a solid QB right now.

Oline- Pathetic last year no question about it. We addressed this in the draft with Davis and Iupati.

WR - Crabtree performed last year even without training camp, preseason, and missing the first 5-6 games. He' going to be a top 15 WR next year. Josh Morgan, Ted Ginn Jr., Kyle Williams (ASU rookie), Brandon Jones, and Jason Hill provide a solid young back up corps.

Secondary - Our DBs were solid last year despite the 21st passing d ranking. The reason why we ranked so low was because we didn't stop the passes to the TEs and RBs. We held most of the WRs in check. With Mays coming in and Clements coming back, we will be able to play with much more physicality. Goldson, Mays, and Clements are a force to be reckon with.

ST - Our return game was terrible last year. However, this year we drafted some good retun guys and also traded for Ginn. I believe that this problem is solved.

Leroy Vann (NCAA KR PR record holder for return TDs):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4NvCMMHXgg

Kyle Williams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HzSB804F_Q

Ted Ginn Jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpI1wElYoCs

dude, I can rationalize all I want about the upgrades we've made to our team as well with trades, FA and the draft, but that's all they are until we see what's on the field. the above is speculation at best, all of which I could speculate the same things as about our talent.

try again... and seriously... if you believe Alex Smith is going to be a solid QB, more power to you. I like to live on a planet called Earth.