Not One Offensive Lineman. Why?

[kerouac9]

Where are these new offensive linemen going to play? Will the Cardinals be willing to have a $3-4 million dollar player sitting on the bench plus paying first round money, $5-7 million signing bonus maybe, to the guy replacing him?

I guess for a year it could make sense Snyder still has $3million in dead money next year and Colledge $4.5 million but dropping their salaries would be close to a wash. I think.

We did that with Stewart Bradley, but I'd expect that if we took a guard in the Top 10, we'd expect him to win the starting job in training camp, and either move Snyder inside to center or release Colledge and work to get that salary albatross off in 2013.

I don't think people get that if we like Cooper, we probably don't like Warmack or Wofford. The latter two are mauling man-to-man blockers. They can get to the edge on a pull, but they're going to struggle on screen plays (this may be a reason why the Cards have struggled on screens forever).

If we like Cooper, than we probably like Potter at guard, too, and if we draft two OL in our first three picks, we might see the end of Colledge and Snyder before training camp.

 

[GatorAZ]

Agree ^^

One of Colledge/Snyder are out after the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if Sendlein is out should a OC be drafted. I think all 3 interior spots need to be replaced but that's not realistic.

 

[Duckjake]

We did that with Stewart Bradley, but I'd expect that if we took a guard in the Top 10, we'd expect him to win the starting job in training camp, and either move Snyder inside to center or release Colledge and work to get that salary albatross off in 2013.

I don't think people get that if we like Cooper, we probably don't like Warmack or Wofford. The latter two are mauling man-to-man blockers. They can get to the edge on a pull, but they're going to struggle on screen plays (this may be a reason why the Cards have struggled on screens forever).

If we like Cooper, than we probably like Potter at guard, too, and if we draft two OL in our first three picks, we might see the end of Colledge and Snyder before training camp.

Except that Paris Lenon wasn't a #10 first round draft pick who just got a $5-7 million dollar signing bonus. But I guess it could happen. Especially with the reduced rookie costs.

 

[TJ]

Agree ^^

One of Colledge/Snyder are out after the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if Sendlein is out should a OC be drafted. I think all 3 interior spots need to be replaced but that's not realistic.

The Snyder situation was posed to MJ last week. Whether he's on the roster or not, it'll cost the team $4mil, so to cut him wouldn't do much.

However, that doesn't preclude the team from taking a guard early in the draft and benching Snyder.

 

[JeffGollin]

The Snyder situation was posed to MJ last week. Whether he's on the roster or not, it'll cost the team $4mil, so to cut him wouldn't do much.

However, that doesn't preclude the team from taking a guard early in the draft and benching Snyder.

To restate what I said earlier: It's all about winning and making the best moves that can help you win.

If we were to go 0 & 16, no one would be praising Keim or Licht for acting financially responsibly by sticking with Snyder, Colledge etc.

Conversely, if we spent more money on rookie linemen and wound up 16 & 0, no one would give a rat's damn that the FO squandered money on the OL.

If drafting guys like Warmack or Fluker or Schwenke or whatever gives us the best chance to win, then Steve K should pull the trigger and draft O-linemen.

 

[Duckjake]

To restate what I said earlier: It's all about winning and making the best moves that can help you win.

If we were to go 0 & 16, no one would be praising Keim or Licht for acting financially responsibly by sticking with Snyder, Colledge etc.

Conversely, if we spent more money on rookie linemen and wound up 16 & 0, no one would give a rat's damn that the FO squandered money on the OL.

If drafting guys like Warmack or Fluker or Schwenke or whatever gives us the best chance to win, then Steve K should pull the trigger and draft O-linemen.

If winning were more important than money Albert Pujols would still be in St.Louis.

 

[JeffGollin]

If winning were more important than money Albert Pujols would still be in St.Louis.

Two totally separate issues. In one case, the Cards elected not to pay Albert more than they could afford.

In the other, we're talking about not making a sound football move because it might magnify bad financial decisions made in the past.

Further, the decision that allowed Pujos to escape still resulted in the BB Cards getting to within one game of the World Series and no one was beating up on Modzelac for losing Pujos because they WON.

I maintain that a decision not to strengthen the OL (because we overspent on Colledge and Snyder) would be highly criticized if it meant that we passed up our best chance to win - and it wound up costing us.

Not that the Cardinal FO might be tempted to do it, but it would be wrong from a football standpoint.

 

[Shane]

Last year you had a few people pining for Decastro at #13 Yet a majority and most experts emphatically stated that it was to soon to draft a G... Now so MANY want Warmack 6 spots higher than 13 and Im certain if i had the time to go back and check many of you were in the its to high for a G camp last year?? What gives?

 

[Duckjake]

Last year you had a few people pining for Decastro at #13 Yet a majority and most experts emphatically stated that it was to soon to draft a G... Now so MANY want Warmack 6 spots higher than 13 and Im certain if i had the time to go back and check many of you were in the its to high for a G camp last year?? What gives?

Because we learned that a Guard at #7 isn't too high if you are going to use the #13 for a #3 Wide Receiver.

 

[Duckjake]

Two totally separate issues. In one case, the Cards elected not to pay Albert more than they could afford.

In the other, we're talking about not making a sound football move because it might magnify bad financial decisions made in the past.

Further, the decision that allowed Pujos to escape still resulted in the BB Cards getting to within one game of the World Series and no one was beating up on Modzelac for losing Pujos because they WON.

I maintain that a decision not to strengthen the OL (because we overspent on Colledge and Snyder) would be highly criticized if it meant that we passed up our best chance to win - and it wound up costing us.

Not that the Cardinal FO might be tempted to do it, but it would be wrong from a football standpoint.

So it was about money. And they won the World Series the year before with Albert.

 

[THESMEL]

I understand it - makes perfect sense- building up the middle- We have 3 rookie O-lineman from last years draft, we draft 3 more and they grow together as a unit anchored by key veterans. the best will survive the preseason - should develop continuity and consistency for years to come.

Just like your suppose to build football team- I'm a big fan of LEVI BROWN-

of course from the last staff -we got elite top 10 picks at WR - building from the outside in to the middle- but what are we suppose to do - throw them out of bed for letting defenses eat QB shaped animal crackers. Like Kolb? Skelton? Lindley? DA, Hall, St Pierre, Croyal, Leinart?

Maybe we should keep 6 TE's and 2 QB's like Whiz did as a rookie HC?

 

[GatorAZ]

The Snyder situation was posed to MJ last week. Whether he's on the roster or not, it'll cost the team $4mil, so to cut him wouldn't do much.

However, that doesn't preclude the team from taking a guard early in the draft and benching Snyder.

Actually it would do a lot for 2014. Cutting Synder right now would cost us 4m against the cap. Cutting Snyder next year hits our cap for 3m.

So it's basically 7m for 1 year of play and 4m for zero years. Given that Synder sucks I'd prefer the ladder and be clear for 2014.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Actually it would do a lot for 2014. Cutting Synder right now would cost us 4m against the cap. Cutting Snyder next year hits our cap for 3m.

So it's basically 7m for 1 year of play and 4m for zero years. Given that Synder sucks I'd prefer the ladder and be clear for 2014.

Snyder gives us game day flexibility as a sub at 4 positions, a point to consider. And he certainly played more than adequately at centre at end of year. Review the Detroit game and how he handled Suh.

(Latter)

 

[Chopper0080]

Snyder gives us game day flexibility as a sub at 4 positions, a point to consider. And he certainly played more than adequately at centre at end of year. Review the Detroit game and how he handled Suh.

(Latter)

Yes, I would guess if we drafted Warmack or Cooper early, Colledge would be cut due to Synder's ability to play OG, and the 2014 benefit of cutting Colledge.

 

[Chopper0080]

Last year you had a few people pining for Decastro at #13 Yet a majority and most experts emphatically stated that it was to soon to draft a G... Now so MANY want Warmack 6 spots higher than 13 and Im certain if i had the time to go back and check many of you were in the its to high for a G camp last year?? What gives?

I was. Apparently all I want to do is draft OGs in the top 15. In all honestly, I think most people are sick of getting no push in the middle of the offensive line and seeing OGs getting pushed back into the backfield. Personally, I think Warmack is an easy 8 year starter who can be a Pro Bowler. Whatever history says on where you take guys like this, I can tell you there aren't many players that we have drafted high who I wouldn't trade for an OG of the caliber of Mankins, Hutchison, Grubbs or Nicks.

 

[GatorAZ]

One of them has to go, that's all I care about.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree with what many others in here already said. We tried fixing the o-line in free agency, as a result the line got even worse, yet far more expensive. In an off-season with a horrible free agent pool on the line, I am glad to see the franchise is learning from past mistakes.

 

[TJ]

Yes, I would guess if we drafted Warmack or Cooper early, Colledge would be cut due to Synder's ability to play OG, and the 2014 benefit of cutting Colledge.

Most likely scenario, but if Snyder is relegated to backup flex option this season, I don't see him sticking around in 2014, either. BY 2014, all of the bad contracts from the Graves era should be off the books.

 

[JeffGollin]

So it was about money. And they won the World Series the year before with Albert.

No. Money set the parameters for good baseball decisions within those parameters.

It became a matter of - for the same money - are we better off keeping one star at the expense of other positions on the ball-club? Or are we better off using the same money to fill several other roster spots with guys they could win with.

I repeat - Do the right thing (regardless of the monetary considerations) and win; and no one will remember or care what you spent or saved to get there.

It was amazing how little flack Modzelac took for not keeping Albert. But I bet you that, had StL missed the playoffs or failed to reach .500, a whole bunch of naysayers would have come out of the woodwork accusing the Cards of "being cheap."

Obviously most teams can't go down Steinbrenner Ave. and just print money and ideally you're better off saving money AND winning. I just think that policy-wise - when in doubt, go for the win instead of making the budget look tidy. (That's what your customers - aka "the fans" - care about).

 

[TJ]

No. Money set the parameters for good baseball decisions within those parameters.

It became a matter of - for the same money - are we better off keeping one star at the expense of other positions on the ball-club? Or are we better off using the same money to fill several other roster spots with guys they could win with.

I repeat - Do the right thing (regardless of the monetary considerations) and win; and no one will remember or care what you spent or cared to get there.

It was amazing how little flack Modzelac took for not keeping Albert. But I bet you that, had StL missed the playoffs or failed to reach .500, a whole bunch of naysayers would have come out of the woodwork accusing the Cards of "being cheap."

Obviously most teams can't go down Steinbrenner Ave. and just print money and ideally you're better off saving money AND winning. just think that policy-wise - when in doubt, go for the win instead of making the budget look tidy. (That's what your customers - aka "the fans" - care about).

OT - that Pujols contract is going to be a massive albatross for Anaheim in a few years, especially if it cannot re-sign Trout. st. Louis was wise to let him walk.

 

[Duckjake]

No. Money set the parameters for good baseball decisions within those parameters.

It became a matter of - for the same money - are we better off keeping one star at the expense of other positions on the ball-club? Or are we better off using the same money to fill several other roster spots with guys they could win with.

I repeat - Do the right thing (regardless of the monetary considerations) and win; and no one will remember or care what you spent or saved to get there.

It was amazing how little flack Modzelac took for not keeping Albert. But I bet you that, had StL missed the playoffs or failed to reach .500, a whole bunch of naysayers would have come out of the woodwork accusing the Cards of "being cheap."

Obviously most teams can't go down Steinbrenner Ave. and just print money and ideally you're better off saving money AND winning. I just think that policy-wise - when in doubt, go for the win instead of making the budget look tidy. (That's what your customers - aka "the fans" - care about).

It was all about the money. Did the Cardinals want to keep him in St.Louis? Yes. Why didn't they? Cost too much money.

 

[Ttownman]

Why not take two low cost FAs that BA is familiar with?

LT Max Starks: is a mountain of a man that kept Roethlisberger clean. He doesn't move great in teh run game but if you want top pass protection and elite run blocking on the move then pay someone franchise money. If rather have a LT that pass protects and not pay high dollars.

C Doug Legursky: Whenever Pouncey was out he always played a good game and calls a great line. He is also a very quick puller to the right, especially from the LG spot. Personally I like him as a backup because BA used to employ him in he Big Legursky Formation on goalline and short yardage plays. A quick 315 pound fullback cab be quite a force! Although I don't like him at RG he can play there in a pinch.

I think both can be had at bargain basement prices. Max for 2 years and Bronco for 3 years. It would go a long way in keeping Stanton or Hoyer or whoever the rookie is from getting destroyed.

 

[john h]

The biggest most gaping hole on this team is offensive line and yet not one has been brought in. Do they think they can fill the line with what they have and rookies? I don't care if you put Drew Stanton, Payton Manning, or Tom Brady behind this line, they're going to get killed. I feel like Whiz and Graves is still here on how they're still ignoring the offensive line.

Is it not unusual for an OL to be taken early in first round? This year may be different but over the long run I have read they tend to go in later rounds?

 

[Denny Green Fan]

If winning were more important than money Albert Pujols would still be in St.Louis.

Funny thing is I thought he would stay and Fitz would be the one I lost

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Because we learned that a Guard at #7 isn't too high if you are going to use the #13 for a #3 Wide Receiver.

Plus u dont have to pay top ten picks much now. I wouldnt be suprised

if the Lions take Fisher and then the Browns break my heart and take

Warmack. That would be awful