Not trying to bash but an honest question about Rod Graves.

[40yearfan]

what worries me most is the this - I know a lot of people keep saying that we're playing vanilla D and the defense can't possibly be judged until we see what happens when the regular season whistle blows, but EVERYONE in pre-season plays vanilla D - and that should mean that every defense in the NFL should look atrocious... but they don't. At some point, you have to acknowledge that the talent level on the D might put us in big trouble in the big picture this season.

Well, someone needs to tell A-Dub this because I heard two interviews with him today and he said the same thing both times. "Don't judge us in preseason as we are playing a vanilla defense and we will pull it all together when the season starts."

I don't think I want to argue with him, so Cheese it's up to you. Just make sure you have your health insurance paid up.

 

[az1965]

Sure you don't expect A-dub to say "we suck"...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, someone needs to tell A-Dub this because I heard two interviews with him today and he said the same thing both times. "Don't judge us in preseason as we are playing a vanilla defense and we will pull it all together when the season starts."

I don't think I want to argue with him, so Cheese it's up to you. Just make sure you have your health insurance paid up.

sadly, it looks like we have more A-WOLS than A-Dubs. If we had 10 more A-Dub's I wouldn't be worried.

 

[conraddobler]

We form opinions of people for all kinds of reasons, I've listened to the man for years, this isn't some blind rage and hate here, he seems like a cool guy, how could you hate him?

I just want a better GM that's all.

 

[40yearfan]

Sure you don't expect A-dub to say "we suck"...

Listen to his interviews. There is not a bit of hesitation when he talks about it. I put Wilson in the same catagory as a Brian Urlacher. He could single handedly pick up this defense and carry it on his back.

 

[ajcardfan]

Listen to his interviews. There is not a bit of hesitation when he talks about it. I put Wilson in the same catagory as a Brian Urlacher. He could single handedly pick up this defense and carry it on his back.

Why didn't he do that last year then?

 

[40yearfan]

Why didn't he do that last year then?

Poor coaching doomed us from the start. Green had already lost this team and playing time depended on your draft position. Even Wilson couldn't overcome those obstacles.

 

[Stout]

Listen to his interviews. There is not a bit of hesitation when he talks about it. I put Wilson in the same catagory as a Brian Urlacher. He could single handedly pick up this defense and carry it on his back.

No he can't. Really. Unless these guys all faked how good they are in the preseason, no way he can. I'm not talking about schemes--I'm talking straight up talent. Our defense doesn't have much of it. A great player like Wilson can pick a good or average defense up by the boot straps and make it play above average or even great; he can't work miracles.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Bottom line on Graves - As a GM your main priority is being able to evaluate talent. That is the biggest tangible benefit a GM brings to the team.

Graves has shown that left to his own devices his ability to evaluate talent just plain sucks. As long as we have a head coach who is strong and knows what he wants in personnel tis defeciency is covered. i hope that is the case now as it was with Denny but only time will tell.

As for the other responsibilities of a GM (being the mouth piece of the team, being well respected, negotiations with rooks, salary cap management) he gets a above average grade from me. He is not stellar by any means but he gets the job done.

But Rod - memo from a Cards fan here. Let Wiz run the draft. Period.

 

[Stout]

Bottom line on Graves - As a GM your main priority is being able to evaluate talent. That is the biggest tangible benefit a GM brings to the team.

Graves has shown that left to his own devices his ability to evaluate talent just plain sucks. As long as we have a head coach who is strong and knows what he wants in personnel tis defeciency is covered. i hope that is the case now as it was with Denny but only time will tell.

As for the other responsibilities of a GM (being the mouth piece of the team, being well respected, negotiations with rooks, salary cap management) he gets a above average grade from me. He is not stellar by any means but he gets the job done.

But Rod - memo from a Cards fan here. Let Wiz run the draft. Period.

He in no way gets anything but a failure in all but one aspect of salary cap managment, in my estimation. The only aspect of cap management that he does well is keep us out of cap hell, and since Homer Simpson could keep a team out of cap hell these days, that ain't a huge positive.

 

[40yearfan]

No he can't. Really. Unless these guys all faked how good they are in the preseason, no way he can. I'm not talking about schemes--I'm talking straight up talent. Our defense doesn't have much of it. A great player like Wilson can pick a good or average defense up by the boot straps and make it play above average or even great; he can't work miracles.

The only really bad thing I saw all preseason long for the defense was getting sucked into mis-direction plays and the large majority of that was Berry. Most of the third and long plays that were made by the opponents against the first string defense were those type of plays.

The second string was much better against that type of play.

I really can't judge where this defense is at because of the way they played in the preseason games, but I do have a lot of faith in Wilson. If he can lift this defense from being weak to being average, we will have a great season.

 

[Duckjake]

"Don't judge us in preseason as we are playing a vanilla defense and we will pull it all together when the season starts."

Sure you don't expect A-dub to say "we suck"...

The players usually wait until after the coach is fired to say that.

he Players - IMHO there have been malingerers on this team that were not run off when they should have been. Nothing can infect an organization faster than employees with a bad attitude.

Well let's hope they were Scott Player, LDavis,Huff,Griffith,Clancy,Femi, and MBrown because everyone else is still here including 9 guys who started on last year's defense: Okeafor,Dockett,Watson,Berry,Hayes,Dansby,Green,Rolle,and Wilson.

Every time we hire a new coach we hear comments about the malingerers. Eventually the new coach turns over 90% of the roster, still loses, gets fired, and the malingerer talk starts again.

Of course there's nothing we can do but hope that maybe this time the Cardinals got it right with Whisenhunt. If he does succeed in finally getting rid of the malingerers we will have a new term. A Whisen hunt: where a new coach goes gunning for the malingerers on his roster.

 

[Russ Smith]

The players usually wait until after the coach is fired to say that.



Well let's hope they were Scott Player, LDavis,Huff,Griffith,Clancy,Femi, and MBrown because everyone else is still here including 9 guys who started on last year's defense: Okeafor,Dockett,Watson,Berry,Hayes,Dansby,Green,Rolle,and Wilson.

Every time we hire a new coach we hear comments about the malingerers. Eventually the new coach turns over 90% of the roster, still loses, gets fired, and the malingerer talk starts again.

Of course there's nothing we can do but hope that maybe this time the Cardinals got it right with Whisenhunt. If he does succeed in finally getting rid of the malingerers we will have a new term. A Whisen hunt: where a new coach goes gunning for the malingerers on his roster.

So what you're saying is that we have a lot of guys here just collecting a paycheck for example (insert player names here) and (insert old coach name here) let them get away with that. (Insert new coach name here) is NOT going to tolerate that, give him time and he will get rid of the (insert example of lazy player name here) types and replace them with guys who want to win.

It can't happen overnight (insert new coach name here) has to completely make over the mindset of the team, he has to create a culture of winning from the top on down.

 

[Duckjake]

So what you're saying is that we have a lot of guys here just collecting a paycheck for example (insert player names here) and (insert old coach name here) let them get away with that. (Insert new coach name here) is NOT going to tolerate that, give him time and he will get rid of the (insert example of lazy player name here) types and replace them with guys who want to win.

It can't happen overnight (insert new coach name here) has to completely make over the mindset of the team, he has to create a culture of winning from the top on down.

Exactly.

 

[Stout]

The only really bad thing I saw all preseason long for the defense was getting sucked into mis-direction plays and the large majority of that was Berry. Most of the third and long plays that were made by the opponents against the first string defense were those type of plays.

The second string was much better against that type of play.

I really can't judge where this defense is at because of the way they played in the preseason games, but I do have a lot of faith in Wilson. If he can lift this defense from being weak to being average, we will have a great season.

I agree, with one caveat: if he can lift this defense from being weak to average, AND we can get decent line play, we will have a great season. In fact, if we have an average running game and an average defense, I will say that we will be in the playoffs and can make noise there.

 

[jefftheshark]

So what you're saying is that we have a lot of guys here just collecting a paycheck for example (insert player names here) and (insert old coach name here) let them get away with that. (Insert new coach name here) is NOT going to tolerate that, give him time and he will get rid of the (insert example of lazy player name here) types and replace them with guys who want to win.

It can't happen overnight (insert new coach name here) has to completely make over the mindset of the team, he has to create a culture of winning from the top on down.

No wonder Darren Urban left the Trib, the stories can just write themselves!

JTS

 

[conraddobler]

So what you're saying is that we have a lot of guys here just collecting a paycheck for example (insert player names here) and (insert old coach name here) let them get away with that. (Insert new coach name here) is NOT going to tolerate that, give him time and he will get rid of the (insert example of lazy player name here) types and replace them with guys who want to win.

It can't happen overnight (insert new coach name here) has to completely make over the mindset of the team, he has to create a culture of winning from the top on down.

Player exhibited some goofy behavior, it caused loss of focus, anytime you have clown running around with a single bar face mask then IMO he better be a very good punter cause if I was the coach and he was the least bit replaceable that's an easy fix right there, it serves more than one purpose, it serves up the possibility of getting cut.

Benching Rolle and chewing out Matt, all wonderful precedents.

The greatest part about it was it was all based on performance or lack thereof, no egos involved but again IMO cutting player did serve two purposes, I think it may have served to show let's act like a real NFL team, you want to be goofy, fine be goofy but you'd better be good.

Too funny!

Honestly the problem is we don't win.

In any team you'll have some of that and boy do we have our share and there is nothing wrong with getting rid of some of that, it's best to do it any time you can.

I think though if the coaching staff gave the team a real good game plan and they could see that play out for a few games in a row, a lot of this kind of thing would fix itself.

It's there on most teams, it's just swamped under when they see hope, and in any enviroment a group of losers can become winners, usually you have to thin a few out to get it turned around but it starts with leadership, if you have faith the people above you are heading the right way then you'll grumble at lot less.

 

[Sandan]

I credited him with helping to move the team out of the Stone age and I gave the most credit to Mike Bidwill, the man who finally got the stadium through, so Rod could have some money to do creative contracts on the wrong players.

No you didn't. You made 2 positive comments about him. The second was a throwaway BS line just like refs call penalties in our favor after the game is decided.

The other comment, you immediately took back and said, that part was really Mike B not RG.

So no, all you did was slam him. All I did was point out the bogus nature of your comments based on actual facts. Not pimping a relationship with RG in the slightest. haven't spoken to him in several years.

Is it my fault if facts disagree with your cheap shots ? I guess you hate it when facts show op your opinions as bogus.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No you didn't. You made 2 positive comments about him. The second was a throwaway BS line just like refs call penalties in our favor after the game is decided.

The other comment, you immediately took back and said, that part was really Mike B not RG.

So no, all you did was slam him. All I did was point out the bogus nature of your comments based on actual facts. Not pimping a relationship with RG in the slightest. haven't spoken to him in several years.

Is it my fault if facts disagree with your cheap shots ? I guess you hate it when facts show op your opinions as bogus.

facts like 20-44?

 

[Sandan]

Cheesie as usual you assume I'm am defending RG which is untrue.

I am am unhappy about the results as you are. I'm simply pointing out the inaccuracies in in his posts.

Would you care to show me a post of mine in this thread defending the record under Rod Graves, you must have seen one to make a post like that ?

Not to mention that the the whole purpose of this thread is to bash Rod Graves.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheesie as usual you assume I'm am defending RG which is untrue.

I am am unhappy about the results as you are. I'm simply pointing out the inaccuracies in in his posts.

Would you care to show me a post of mine in this thread defending the record under Rod Graves, you must have seen one to make a post like that ?

Not to mention that the the whole purpose of this thread is to bash Rod Graves.

i'm just having a little fun with ya Nidan. Relax man. But honestly, your silence on anything negative (or defense of the man when something negative is brought up) with Graves speaks volumes Nidan. Surely you have to realize that. I mean, it's not even the silence, it's the ridiculing phraes like how "entertaining" the criticisms of Graves are or the LOL at some thing someone says about Graves and on and on and on.

or pretty much the fact that you almost never post except to dispute something that someone says about Graves. You don't think that all of the above would lead people to think you still comletely support him? Come on now.

 

[Sandan]

I figured that that you and your fellows more than have the negative side covered. Not defending him, just pointing out inaccuracies.

One might say over covered, you need no assistance

 

[Cheesebeef]

I figured that that you and your fellows more than have the negative side covered. Not defending him, just pointing out inaccuracies.

that's great and all, but when you point out "inaccuracies" while not offering you own opinion, how else are we supposed to take that but defending the man's performance? Not sure how you don't get that people believe you defend him because of a perceived tacit agreement with whatever he does due to your silence on the matter.

 

[40yearfan]

I agree, with one caveat: if he can lift this defense from being weak to average, AND we can get decent line play, we will have a great season. In fact, if we have an average running game and an average defense, I will say that we will be in the playoffs and can make noise there.

After seeing the difference in how the line played this preseason compared to last year, I am very hopeful that problem is solved. If Grimm is as good as advertised, it won't make much difference who's on the Oline if they all are technical and know their positions.

How refreshing it's been to not have our QB's running for their collective lives.

 

[Hollywood]

After seeing the difference in how the line played this preseason compared to last year, I am very hopeful that problem is solved. If Grimm is as good as advertised, it won't make much difference who's on the Oline if they all are technical and know their positions.

How refreshing it's been to not have our QB's running for their collective lives.

Wait...what...that is a option?