Now about the pf position. . .

[BC867]

Look, I'm not trying to make the case that Frye is a good center or a good power forward. However, you keep trying to make the case that he is a small forward because of the "big man" things he doesn't do while completely ignoring the small forward things he also doesn't do.

Steve

So Frye is a tweener -- a man without a position. Must play too far outside to rebound, but is too soft to play inside.

A one-dimension player, whose only attribute is his 3-point shooting, which is far from consistent. That is unfortunately a detriment to an NBA team that would like to be a serious contender.

Or, at least, to the fans would like our team be a serious contender.

Not too much unlike Leandro Barbosa -- too small to be a Shooting Guard but lacking the skills to be Point Guard.

Or Hedo -- a 6'10" Point-Small Forward on a team loaded with wing players but lacking a Power Forward. Eventually, they both had to go.

Sooner or later, Frye's big contract will take a back seat to his being a tweener, too.

 

[sunsfan88]

His defense is much better than last year. He does occasionally pump fake and take an easier shot. His job in the offense is to set up at the 3 point line which makes it a bit tough to post up. And yes, he should be averaging more than 6.2 rebounds per game. However, you keep singling the guy out while ignoring the fact that nobody on our team rebounds well. You also ignore that his spot on the floor limits his potential for offensive rebounds.

Look, I'm not trying to make the case that Frye is a good center or a good power forward. However, you keep trying to make the case that he is a small forward because of the "big man" things he doesn't do while completely ignoring the small forward things he also doesn't do.

Steve

Read the part I bolded in the below text. That's exactly what he is. He is a strict 3pt shooter that isn't even good at that!

If you only do one thing, shouldn't you be good at it? I mean for example Kidd is a strict passer, and he is good at it. Camby is a strict rebounder and he is good at it. Durant and Ellis are dominant scorers and they are good at it. Of course there are some "all-around" players like Kobe, LBJ, Wade etc. but if your only supposed to doing one thing which like you said Frye is supposed to only be a 3pt shooter, then he should be good at it not shooting a pathetic 36% from downtown.

How many strict 3pt shooters do you know that shoot 36% from 3pt territory.

So Frye is a tweener -- a man without a position. Must play too far outside to rebound, but is too soft to play inside.

A one-dimension player, whose only attribute is his 3-point shooting, which is far from consistent. That is unfortunately a detriment to an NBA team that would like to be a serious contender.

Or, at least, to the fans would like our team be a serious contender.

Not too much unlike Leandro Barbosa -- too small to be a Shooting Guard but lacking the skills to be Point Guard.

Or Hedo -- a 6'10" Point-Small Forward on a team loaded with wing players but lacking a Power Forward. Eventually, they both had to go.

Sooner or later, Frye's big contract will take a back seat to his being a tweener, too.

Thanks for posting that. I couldn't find the exact words to describe Frye and I agree Frye would have no place on a team that is a serious contender.

 

[Trifecta]

If you only do one thing, shouldn't you be good at it? I mean for example Kidd is a strict passer, and he is good at it. Camby is a strict rebounder and he is good at it. Durant and Ellis are dominant scorers and they are good at it. Of course there are some "all-around" players like Kobe, LBJ, Wade etc. but if your only supposed to doing one thing which like you said Frye is supposed to only be a 3pt shooter, then he should be good at it not shooting a pathetic 36% from downtown.

All of the players you have listed above are/were superstars or very close, so bringing them into any discussion involving Frye is a bit silly. Frye is an average big man making $6m a year and puts up some decent (but not great) numbers. We've got far bigger problems to deal with than him IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Are you guys really trying to tell me that Frye isn't great? I think we all knew that and pointing out that he'd be a detriment to a serious contender is a wasted effort, IMO. We are not a serious contender, far from it. We have a lot of problems and Frye is NOWHERE near our biggest problem. He's also nowhere near the most overpaid (see Warrick). And I even disagree with the basic sentiment that he has no place on a contender. It's because we are such a weak team that we are forced to live and die with this guy instead of just using him when and where he's effective. That's not his fault, that's an organizational problem.

Also, 88, you're changing the argument. This discussion grew out of your insistence that he's a small forward. He simply isn't a small forward. He has attributes of each of the forward/center spots but he really isn't a good match at any of them. Plus, I've never said that he is supposed to be just a 3 point shooter. That's his primary role in this offense but it's not his only role.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Are you guys really trying to tell me that Frye isn't great? I think we all knew that and pointing out that he'd be a detriment to a serious contender is a wasted effort, IMO. We are not a serious contender, far from it. We have a lot of problems and Frye is NOWHERE near our biggest problem. He's also nowhere near the most overpaid (see Warrick). And I even disagree with the basic sentiment that he has no place on a contender. It's because we are such a weak team that we are forced to live and die with this guy instead of just using him when and where he's effective. That's not his fault, that's an organizational problem.

Also, 88, you're changing the argument. This discussion grew out of your insistence that he's a small forward. He simply isn't a small forward. He has attributes of each of the forward/center spots but he really isn't a good match at any of them. Plus, I've never said that he is supposed to be just a 3 point shooter. That's his primary role in this offense but it's not his only role.

Steve

This is sunsfan88's MO. He consistently switches targets like he's at a shooting gallery and has very thin arguments to back himself up. He also conveniently ignores half the argument. My guess is that he has a VERY short memory (as apparently BC also does in this case). Perhaps sunsfan88 doesn't remember how Frye played off the bench earlier this season.

Frye as a SF? That's beyond ridiculous.

 

[Folster]

Steve, what was your previous handle on this site? I'm assuming you changed your name because I don't have a recollection of your name until recently.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve, what was your previous handle on this site? I'm assuming you changed your name because I don't have a recollection of your name until recently.

For the most part I've just lurked on this board and it's predecessors (Mike's site on Rivals and Bob Chebat's AZProSports board). I posted occasionally back then with a different user name but this is the only name I've used since 04.

Steve

 

[Folster]

For the most part I've just lurked on this board and it's predecessors (Mike's site on Rivals and Bob Chebat's AZProSports board). I posted occasionally back then with a different user name but this is the only name I've used since 04.

Steve

I see. I used to lurk on the rivals board and AZProSports as well. I was a young'n though and the internets were just beginning. I remember it taking days to refresh threads. Sorry for not noticing you but I'm glad you're posting more.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I see. I used to lurk on the rivals board and AZProSports as well. I was a young'n though and the internets were just beginning. I remember it taking days to refresh threads. Sorry for not noticing you but I'm glad you're posting more.

I've come out of lurker status a few times before but I always kind of felt like I was being ignored. I was used to a non-threaded environment (AOL back in the mid 90's) and everyone would post to the same thread and it pretty much forced people to read every message. Here, you're never quite sure if someone is reading your comments and until you get used to this style it's easy to feel invisible. Now, of course, I've come to realize I wasn't being ignored by the regulars - they just didn't like me.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Are you guys really trying to tell me that Frye isn't great? I think we all knew that and pointing out that he'd be a detriment to a serious contender is a wasted effort, IMO. We are not a serious contender, far from it. We have a lot of problems and Frye is NOWHERE near our biggest problem. He's also nowhere near the most overpaid (see Warrick). And I even disagree with the basic sentiment that he has no place on a contender. It's because we are such a weak team that we are forced to live and die with this guy instead of just using him when and where he's effective. That's not his fault, that's an organizational problem.

Also, 88, you're changing the argument. This discussion grew out of your insistence that he's a small forward. He simply isn't a small forward. He has attributes of each of the forward/center spots but he really isn't a good match at any of them. Plus, I've never said that he is supposed to be just a 3 point shooter. That's his primary role in this offense but it's not his only role.

Steve

Please tell me what other role he has other than 3pt chucking.

And I agree Frye is neither a SF or a PF but what is he closer to being? A SF or a PF. IMO the answer is a SF or a SG. If you disagree fine.

 

[sunsfan88]

This is sunsfan88's MO. He consistently switches targets like he's at a shooting gallery and has very thin arguments to back himself up. He also conveniently ignores half the argument. My guess is that he has a VERY short memory (as apparently BC also does in this case). Perhaps sunsfan88 doesn't remember how Frye played off the bench earlier this season.

Frye as a SF? That's beyond ridiculous.

Ah I was wondering where Frye's biggest fan was...

Once Gentry ends his love relationship with Frye, perhaps you'll get a turn.

 

[Chaplin]

Ah I was wondering where Frye's biggest fan was...

Once Gentry ends his love relationship with Frye, perhaps you'll get a turn.

Where have I said I was a big fan of Frye? Please, I beg you, quote me. You think he's beyond worthless and a small forward. I completely disagree. In fact, I have stated in this thread that he's at best a mediocre PF. He certainly isn't a worthless 3-point shot chucker.

 

[Covert Rain]

Please tell me what other role he has other than 3pt chucking.

And I agree Frye is neither a SF or a PF but what is he closer to being? A SF or a PF. IMO the answer is a SF or a SG. If you disagree fine.

Huh? SG? ........um OK.

SF? Not really but I think I see what your saying.

Frye is uber soft sometimes. However, he looks like a soft PF to me. He is not a Center, SF or SG by any stretch. He plays like a tweener. Frye has the height of a C/PF but plays like a tweener to me. By tweener I mean PF/SF. However, I didn't see that in his game (the SF tendencies) until he came here. That is what the Suns have turned him into (a 3 point threat). He tends to hang out at the 3 point line and slash like a SF would. So, I guess I could see why you might say that except he also occasional hangs around the rim to rebound and block shots like a PF. So, I could buy he has SF tendencies but to me that is more a product of what the coaches are asking him to do. Frye simply didn't do that before he came here.

SG? You completely lost me there.

 

[elindholm]

Why anyone continues to respond to sunsfan88 is beyond me.

 

[BC867]

References to the Wing positions nowadays sort of blend in Small Forward and Shooting (or Big) Guard more than ever. The two most interchangeable positions in an NBA lineup.

Certainly more interchangeable than playing a Power Forward at Center or a Small Forward at Power Forward, or a Point Guard at Shooting Guard for that matter.

Although Frye's 6.2 rebounds currently lead the Suns (reflecting our preponderance of Wings and lack of an established Center or Power Forward), that figure sound more like a Small Forward . . . and not too much more than some Big Guards.

Frye's 0.6 offensive boards and playing 23 feet from the basket on offense certainly define him as a Wing.

And as interchangeable as Wings are nowadays, it isn't really a stretch to think of Frye as playing like a "3" or even a big "2".

It's just a recent concept that takes some adjusting to. A player that the Suns call a Center (or even Power Forward) playing more like a Small Forward (or even Shooting Guard) -- a 2010-2011 Wing.

 

[Chaplin]

Channing is actually 15th among centers in rebounding and around 20-21 for PFs. Not great by any means, but it's not like he's the worst starting PF/C rebounder in the league. A lot better than Savior Gortat (although we hold out hope he'll improve immensely).

 

[JCSunsfan]

Channing is actually 15th among centers in rebounding and around 20-21 for PFs. Not great by any means, but it's not like he's the worst starting PF/C rebounder in the league. A lot better than Savior Gortat (although we hold out hope he'll improve immensely).

Channing does make his presence known. I suppose that because he shoots threes he will always be considered soft.

 

[devilalum]

Ah I was wondering where Frye's biggest fan was...

Once Gentry ends his love relationship with Frye, perhaps you'll get a turn.

This is offensive. If you're incapable of posting a respectful retort you might want to try the ESPN boards.

 

[sunsfan88]

Huh? SG? ........um OK.

SF? Not really but I think I see what your saying.

Frye is uber soft sometimes. However, he looks like a soft PF to me. He is not a Center, SF or SG by any stretch. He plays like a tweener. Frye has the height of a C/PF but plays like a tweener to me. By tweener I mean PF/SF. However, I didn't see that in his game (the SF tendencies) until he came here. That is what the Suns have turned him into (a 3 point threat). He tends to hang out at the 3 point line and slash like a SF would. So, I guess I could see why you might say that except he also occasional hangs around the rim to rebound and block shots like a PF. So, I could buy he has SF tendencies but to me that is more a product of what the coaches are asking him to do. Frye simply didn't do that before he came here.

SG? You completely lost me there.

Yea but before he came here, he was nothing. He was buried on the 'Blazers bench.

Even if Gentry is making him stay parked beyond the arc there is still other things he can do to be more of a PF. He has the potential to be a Lamar Odom type player with his shooting ability and size. But he just doesn't put in the effort or passion to play defense or rebound at a high level.

 

[Chaplin]

Yea but before he came here, he was nothing. He was buried on the 'Blazers bench.

Even if Gentry is making him stay parked beyond the arc there is still other things he can do to be more of a PF. He has the potential to be a Lamar Odom type player with his shooting ability and size. But he just doesn't put in the effort or passion to play defense or rebound at a high level.

He's NOT only staying parked beyond the arc. Eric's right, I don't know why I respond to you, you obviously aren't watching any games.

 

[BC867]

...it's not like he's the worst starting PF/C rebounder in the league. A lot better than Savior Gortat (although we hold out hope he'll improve immensely).

That is not a fair comparison. Gortat was not only not a starter, but he played behind the #1 Center in the NBA.

Most of his playing time came in practice . . . against the #1 Center in the NBA.

I won't even touch your Savior reference. But the arrival of Gortat gives us hope for a legitimate starting Center, especially following the failed experiments of Frye (too soft/23 feet from the basket) and Lopez (who has shown himself, unfortunately, to be a bit of a flake).

What Suns fan wouldn't be happy to give Gortat a chance? Very little to lose and a lot to gain. I agree with your holding out hope.

 

[Chaplin]

That is not a fair comparison. Gortat was not only not a starter, but he played behind the #1 Center in the NBA.

Most of his playing time came in practice . . . against the #1 Center in the NBA.

I won't even touch your Savior reference. But the arrival of Gortat gives us hope for a legitimate starting Center, especially following the failed experiments of Frye (too soft/23 feet from the basket) and Lopez (who has shown himself, unfortunately, to be a bit of a flake).

What Suns fan wouldn't be happy to give Gortat a chance? Very little to lose and a lot to gain. I agree with your holding out hope.

Hey, I hope Gortat DOES become somewhat of a savior for us. But there's nothing so far that says he's going to have a major impact yet. Hopefully he will, but right now, he's a serviceable big man and that's it. He needs to get more used to our players and then hopefully we'll see a big improvement. Right now at this moment, he's only marginally better than Lopez, and the difference isn't that big. Robin needs to improve as well, but I've been extremely happy with 2 things from him: his 15 footer and his free throw shooting. He just needs to get the rebounding thing down and he'd be a pretty good player.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yea because Gortat has played in two games. Its delusional to expect him to put up 30-10 or big numbers right away.

Once they play Gortat and RoLo together as a PF-C combo, we'll have a good front court.

 

[sunsfan88]

He's NOT only staying parked beyond the arc. Eric's right, I don't know why I respond to you, you obviously aren't watching any games.

Offensively that's all he does. Are you telling me that he posts up?

And yea if you don't wanna respond, don't respond. There is an ignore option on here and feel free to use it. I'm gonna use it on you because it seems like about every thread all you want to do is come and make blank arguments about what ever I say. No more of that crap. Good bye.

 

[Chaplin]

Offensively that's all he does. Are you telling me that he posts up?

And yea if you don't wanna respond, don't respond. There is an ignore option on here and feel free to use it. I'm gonna use it on you because it seems like about every thread all you want to do is come and make blank arguments about what ever I say. No more of that crap. Good bye.

LOL

Blank arguments? You only make sense 25% of the time.

And I don't have anyone on ignore, even the guys that hate me with a passion (right eric and cheese?).