Nuggets at Suns 3-10

[jagu]

Yea I thought we'd get blown out tonight and we did. Nash needs a few days off before he dies.

 

[TBaslim]

I guess that's how most people will look at it. Myself, I see us playing with a Nash that should clearly NOT be playing and without our starting power forward. We're a better team than we were 3 months ago but we're not good enough to beat Denver when we're minus two starters. And, even though Steve played, we are clearly minus two starters. Add in the fact that Denver is an improved team now that the distraction of Melo is behind them and this game is not too surprising.

Steve

Yup. And add that Denver matches up really well against us...and you get this game.

Whatevs. Time to flush it and move on. Sometimes the blowouts are easier to get past than the heartbreaking last minute losses. The Suns were well on the way to losing this one in the first 5 minutes. They were due for a stinker as well.

The real question is how badly is Nash hurt, and can Frye come back on schedule.

Those will determine if they can win the 13 or so more games Gentry thinks they need to make the playoffs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've heard talk Sullinger may not declare for the draft but who knows. Maybe the Suns would have been better off letting Dowdell push Dragic back to the third PG position and keeping that first round pick. It looks like Dowdell is a larger version of Brooks. I don't see a team giving the Suns a first round pick for Warrick.

Well, unless I close my eyes and dream, I don't see us getting lucky in the lottery and drawing the first pick either. Based on value, Warrick should cost us four unprotected picks just to get rid of him but I'm clicking my heels 3 times and hoping we can find an Isiah Thomas clone (hopefully one that isn't already tied to the Suns). I figure if we feed Hakim on offense for the rest of the season his 27 points per game average might be enough to hide his incredibly weak defense and all around stupid game.

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

I guess that's how most people will look at it. Myself, I see us playing with a Nash that should clearly NOT be playing and without our starting power forward. We're a better team than we were 3 months ago but we're not good enough to beat Denver when we're minus two starters. And, even though Steve played, we are clearly minus two starters. Add in the fact that Denver is an improved team now that the distraction of Melo is behind them and this game is not too surprising.

Steve

Completely agree, but you know me, I think we are missing 3 starters. Nash is a gimp right now, (I still love him and I hope he finishes his career here) Frye is a gimp right now, ( I have grown to love him and I hope he finishes his career here) Gortat is a pimp right now, ( crazy love and I hope he finishes his career here).

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yup. And add that Denver matches up really well against us...and you get this game.

Whatevs. Time to flush it and move on. Sometimes the blowouts are easier to get past than the heartbreaking last minute losses. The Suns were well on the way to losing this one in the first 5 minutes. They were due for a stinker as well.

The real question is how badly is Nash hurt, and can Frye come back on schedule.

Those will determine if they can win the 13 or so more games Gentry thinks they need to make the playoffs.

I hate to sound like a pessimist but I think we're done for. Even a miracle turnaround from Nash might not be enough to get us into the playoffs. At least we have a few decent younger players, now we need to find a young star or two to put out there alongside Gortat. Just watching Marcin play makes me smile so I can live with a wasted year or two.

Steve

 

[TBaslim]

Hak is not the problem in isolation. He's a bench PF being asked to carry a starter PF load with Frye out. He can give you starter production occasionally (like the other night), but he's not that guy every night. His job should be instant PnR offense and drawing fouls for 15-20 min off the bench against certain teams (with weak interior scorers that don't expose his defense).

He's a luxury on a good playoff team. The problem is the Suns are struggling to be any kind of playoff team right now. So Hak is a luxury we probably can't afford and Sarver shouldn't have paid for last summer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hak is not the problem in isolation. He's a bench PF being asked to carry a starter PF load with Frye out. He can give you starter production occasionally (like the other night), but he's not that guy every night. His job should be instant PnR offense and drawing fouls for 15-20 min off the bench against certain teams (with weak interior scorers that don't expose his defense).

He's a luxury on a good playoff team. The problem is the Suns are struggling to be any kind of playoff team right now. So Hak is a luxury we probably can't afford and Sarver shouldn't have paid for last summer.

I disagree. Hakim kills us on defense and I can't see him being anything on a good playoff team other than a garbage player. He shoots from the top of the key and then stands there. He is almost always the last player back on defense despite the fact he likes that top of the key shot. He wanders around aimlessly on defense and switches without reason. Then, after the switch, he typically leaves that guy and goes off in search of someone else to stand near. Focus on his defensive play for a few games and see if you still think he's not the problem. It has nothing to do with him being undersized, it's an upstairs issue.

Steve

 

[TBaslim]

I agree Hak's defense is usually generally awful (although he's been better next to Gortat the last 15 games or so). My point is that his value to a team is on the offensive end off the bench. With bench being the emphasis. He'd be helpful to a strong defensive playoff team needing some offensive spark of the bench for a change of pace.

With no top-flight starting PF like Amare, and with Frye now injured, Hak is playing far more minutes than he should on a good team. And that exposes his game big-time. The good (see Houston game) and the bad (see Denver game).

I just don't lay this loss on Hak. The Suns have bigger problems than him right now.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree Hak's defense is usually generally awful (although he's been better next to Gortat the last 15 games or so). My point is that his value to a team is on the offensive end off the bench. With bench being the emphasis. He'd be helpful to a strong defensive playoff team needing some offensive spark of the bench for a change of pace.

With no top-flight starting PF like Amare, and with Frye now injured, Hak is playing far more minutes than he should on a good team. And that exposes his game big-time. The good (see Houston game) and the bad (see Denver game).

I just don't lay this loss on Hak. The Suns have bigger problems than him right now.

I agree we have bigger problems most noticeably the health of Nash. I don't really blame Warrick for this loss although he certainly played a big part in it. I've had a problem with Hakim's defense all season, I'm not just picking on him now that he's having to play more minutes. I truly believe we'd be MUCH better off playing Childress, Dudley or Hill at the PF spot than Warrick though.

I haven't noticed him playing better defense alongside Gortat although it's clear Marcin has improved our overall defense. I think Warrick is a weak defender when he's guarding someone in isolation but it's what he does to our team defense that most alarms me.

I realize that no player is perfect and when you start focusing on one person looking for any flaw, you'll generally find it but I just don't think I'm being unreasonable in my judgement of the guy. Not since Longley have I been so consistently irked by a player on "my team".

Steve

 

[BC867]

I agree we have bigger problems most noticeably the health of Nash

'Sad to say, but that's it. The necessity to play him the most minutes on the team at his age during the first half of the season.

Fatigue leads to injury. And now a nagging groin injury.

'Too late to change our system to give effective minutes to any other Point Guard.

To those of you old enough to remember how the Nash (and Hudson) automobiles were phased out and replaced by a successful American Motors (Rambler) line, it might be necessary again to make it through a whole season in the future.

 

[Griffin]

Pathetic showing by the Suns. After getting blown out by the Nuggets in Denver, they get blown out by them at home.

It was clear that Nash is not ok, and that we will struggle with Hakim in place of Frye. Also Carter did another one of his disappearing acts. The problem is, Frye is not coming back for several weeks so this is what we've got to play with.

We could sit Nash out a few games, but there is absolutely no guarantee that it will fix his problems, and those few games could be enough to keep us out of playoffs, which may happen anyway. The fact that Brooks hasn't played very well the last few games doesn't help the cause.

 

[ninous26]

Nash needs to sit out for a week. Plain and simple.

This would be my best shot right now.

Brooks
Carter
Hill
Warrick
Gortat

bench;

Dowdell
Dudley
Pietrus
Childress/Lawal(do we still have lawal?)
Lopez/Siler

Those both look very weak without nash and frye.. Things are not looking good.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would sit Nash until he was healthy regardless of consequence. Old AND injured is not a winning combination. I'd start Brooks, Carter, Hill, Pietrus and Gortat and I'd limit the bench play to Dowdell, Dudley and Childress. I'd save Warrick and Lopez for those special occasions when Hell freezes over.

Steve

 

[Proteus]

I would sit Nash until he was healthy regardless of consequence. Old AND injured is not a winning combination. I'd start Brooks, Carter, Hill, Pietrus and Gortat and I'd limit the bench play to Dowdell, Dudley and Childress. I'd save Warrick and Lopez for those special occasions when Hell freezes over.

Steve

So who's the backup center? Childress?

 

[dziki]

Did Gortat broke this old-Suns record for the most D-D`s off the bench?

Anyway:
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...s-extra-center-robin-lopez-marcin-gortat.html

 

[AzStevenCal]

So who's the backup center? Childress?

Gortat. I'd start him and I'd play him till he drops. The guy is the real Superman, he can do it. Keep in mind, my lineup wasn't crafted to win games as much as it was designed to keep me from throwing something through my TV every time I watch Warrick and Lopez try to play basketball. I have a nice TV, a quick temper and a limited wallet and those two are very bad basketball players. VERY VERY BAD!!

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Gortat. I'd start him and I'd play him till he drops. The guy is the real Superman, he can do it. Keep in mind, my lineup wasn't crafted to win games as much as it was designed to keep me from throwing something through my TV every time I watch Warrick and Lopez try to play basketball. I have a nice TV, a quick temper and a limited wallet and those two are very bad basketball players. VERY VERY BAD!!

Steve

LOL!

 

[jagu]

As much as it is fun to see Warrick slam dunk, dude is just flat out stupid. I don't think he or LoLopez has the necessary IQ to play this game.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would sit Nash until he was healthy regardless of consequence. Old AND injured is not a winning combination. I'd start Brooks, Carter, Hill, Pietrus and Gortat and I'd limit the bench play to Dowdell, Dudley and Childress. I'd save Warrick and Lopez for those special occasions when Hell freezes over.

Steve

I agree about resting Nash but the Suns do not have any realistic chance of consistently winning with Nash resting, Frye out and the Suns other two bigs, Lopez and Warrick, sitting. Size does matter in the NBA even if Lopez and Warrick is all the Suns have. On a good night Warrick can help the Suns win and at least Lopez can give Gortat some rest. There was a whole article written by Paul Coro dated 3-10-11 at azcentral about Gentry's and Gortat's thoughts about the center position. See link below.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...s-extra-center-robin-lopez-marcin-gortat.html

 

[desertdawg]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...s-extra-center-robin-lopez-marcin-gortat.html

That's what I'm talking about. Gentry is the reason we won't make the playoffs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree about resting Nash but the Suns do not have any realistic chance of consistently winning with Nash resting, Frye out and the Suns other two bigs, Lopez and Warrick, sitting. Size does matter in the NBA even if Lopez and Warrick is all the Suns have. On a good night Warrick can help the Suns win and at least Lopez can give Gortat some rest. There was a whole article written by Paul Coro dated 3-10-11 at azcentral about Gentry's and Gortat's thoughts about the center position. See link below.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...s-extra-center-robin-lopez-marcin-gortat.html

I think we have to play Lopez despite my feelings but I contend that Brooks would be less of a deficit at power forward than Warrick. Seriously, I think Warrick costs us at a level that he just can't make up even if he were spectacular on offense every night. And we know that's not going to happen. The only time I play Warrick is when we have the lead safe in hand or for short periods of time when he is part of a very active, defensively effective, second team. If Gortat moves to the starting lineup I wouldn't play Warrick at all in a contested game.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I think we have to play Lopez despite my feelings but I contend that Brooks would be less of a deficit at power forward than Warrick. Seriously, I think Warrick costs us at a level that he just can't make up even if he were spectacular on offense every night. And we know that's not going to happen. The only time I play Warrick is when we have the lead safe in hand or for short periods of time when he is part of a very active, defensively effective, second team. If Gortat moves to the starting lineup I wouldn't play Warrick at all in a contested game.

Steve

I understand your concerns about Warrick's problems on defense but the Suns do not win the Houston game without him. The Suns will have to take the good with the bad with Warrick. I don't think the Suns have any realistic options but to play him. Sure Warrick hurt the Suns against Denver. It's sort of like poker, you have to play the hand your dealt.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's what I'm talking about. Gentry is the reason we won't make the playoffs.

If you think Gentry is the primary reason the Suns are losing, you should study the Suns roster and the injury situation. The Suns were borderline to make the playoffs when the season begin and this was not factoring in the injuries. Gentry is the only reason the Suns are flirting with the 8th spot. The reality is that other teams have more talent than the Suns.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I understand your concerns about Warrick's problems on defense but the Suns do not win the Houston game without him. The Suns will have to take the good with the bad with Warrick. I don't think the Suns have any realistic options but to play him. Sure Warrick hurt the Suns against Denver. It's sort of like poker, you have to play the hand your dealt.

Did you notice how porous our defense was that game? It's all speculation (especially at my end) but I believe sitting Warrick for that game would have resulted in an easier win for us. He was pretty good on offense, he was horrendous on defense and again, it's not just his individual defense - it's his impact on our team defense that hurts us so. I know it sounds like hyperbole (and I have exaggerated a time or two to make my point) but IMO, Warrick is THE worst team defender I've ever seen.

Steve

 

[jagu]

"I need to do more," Gortat said. "I've got to be more vocal on the floor as the only guy who's standing under the basket and seeing the whole floor. I've got to talk to the people. I've got to do a better job than that."

I love Gortat