Nuggets @ Suns 1-12-18

[JCSunsfan]

This is what pisses me off about this team: it has the talent to be competitive. It’s when this team gets disorganized on the court, the wheels fall off, and at this point, they’re so used to losing that they don’t even try to fight back.

Games like tonight should be the norm, not the exception. I hope work a solid PG and an extra year of experience for Ayton and others that we’ll be a fringe playoff team

Sounds like you haven't even been watching since November. This team has had a LOT of comeback games. It's been quite a while since I have seen them just quit a game.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He’s actually the youngest of the three as well.

They're all close but according to BR, Kelly is the oldest of the three. Oubre was born 12/9/1995. Bridges was born 8/30/1996. Jackson was born 2/10/1997.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sounds like you haven't even been watching since November. This team has had a LOT of comeback games. It's been quite a while since I have seen them just quit a game.

Sure and I think he's missing that the roster and lineup has changed over the past few months. Those changes and player development is bringing this group closer and closer to NBA level. I don't want to make too much of a home win against a team that is only a little over .500 on the road but for almost a month now we've seen signs of growth with this group that give us hope for the future.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's Book's defense though. He can play within the flow on offense, but if he does not improve his defense, he is a problem. This team wins with defense and it cannot afford to have any holes.

This team started to turn it around once Booker got healthy, that seems to be ignored here. And teams scout us primarily for Booker, they have yet to adjust to what we are without him. So all this talk about the team being better without him makes no sense to me.

 

[Hoop Head]

Good w with no book. The one-two of Ayton and Holmes seemed impactful. Oubre is such a fortuitous mideseason pickup.

Oubre is almost exactly what I thought Ariza would be, only more energetic. I know everyone on the Suns was more energetic than Ariza this year but I'm referring to the Ariza that was in Houston last year and that we've seen on the Lakers and elsewhere in the past. Oubre is a good defender, he can knock down 3's at a good rate, and he's all hustle. Despite not being in the league that long he's still a quality addition that is basically a vet on this team.

 

[leclerc]

Didn't know the butt nuggets were in first place in the west. That's impressive.

We had picks in front of both Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic, didn't we? Who did we get? I remember I was pretty keen on both, but I think the front office went with potential (lack of skills) and athleticism.

 

[sunsfan88]

They're all close but according to BR, Kelly is the oldest of the three. Oubre was born 12/9/1995. Bridges was born 8/30/1996. Jackson was born 2/10/1997.

You’re right, I had a total brain fart and read it backwards.

 

[sunsfan88]

Didn't know the butt nuggets were in first place in the west. That's impressive.

We had picks in front of both Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic, didn't we? Who did we get? I remember I was pretty keen on both, but I think the front office went with potential (lack of skills) and athleticism.

I really liked Murray in his draft and preferred him over Bender. But he wasn’t really projected to go top 3 at all.

Jokic went in the 2nd rd and was just a total wildcard like Ginobili/Marc Gasol.

 

[devilalum]

I don't know what kind of contract Oubre deserves but whatever he gets he's earning it. On top of all his natural ability he works hard on every play. He appears to be a great teammate. I think his development was held back in Washington playing behind Wall and Beal.

 

[devilalum]

You’re right, I had a total brain fart and read it backwards.

Their ages are close enough that it doesn't matter. I just hope that if the Suns don't keep all 3 they choose the right ones. Its crazy to to think that Warren may be the worst of the 4. He's still having the best year of his career. He just doesn't defend like the other 3 and he's not as athletic.

 

[leclerc]

Sounds like you haven't even been watching since November. This team has had a LOT of comeback games. It's been quite a while since I have seen them just quit a game.

A young team will be up and down. There are a lot of reasons to be optimistic to watch them grow and evolve from here on out. I hope they don't panic and do any stupid trades, or fire the coach or anything. They're looking good on both ends of the court (at least if you have a win or two fresh in mind), on top of that I think their strange is on defense. A Suns team. Imagine that. Josh is playing like he was last year. Oubre is doing what we expected from Ariza (more or less), Bridges is solid, and we're even getting decent games from Melton and Okobo. Melton is fantastic on defense and the offense usually flows well enough when he's out there. Let's go Suns.

 

[leclerc]

I hope we lock up Holmes and Oubre, but we need to be ready to pay Jackson and Bridges as well.

 

[leclerc]

I really liked Murray in his draft and preferred him over Bender. But he wasn’t really projected to go top 3 at all.

Jokic went in the 2nd rd and was just a total wildcard like Ginobili/Marc Gasol.

Yes, I remember most boards had Murray around 8-10 and never in the top 5. That's unfortunate for us. I would be okay with trading him for Bender.

That year Jokic came a lot of European centers were in the late first round. Nurkic and Jokic and I think one more. I don't know who we got as second or third pick that year. Maybe that high flying SG from Kentucky? Suns usually don't go for slow skilled bigs in the draft, do they? Except for one of the Morris twins, I can't remember anyone...

 

[JCSunsfan]

This team started to turn it around once Booker got healthy, that seems to be ignored here. And teams scout us primarily for Booker, they have yet to adjust to what we are without him. So all this talk about the team being better without him makes no sense to me.

Acknowledged that this team started to turn around when Book got healthy. But this is a different team than it was 5 weeks ago.

I am not sure any of us really mean we are better without him. Our defense is better without him. He does have some adjusting to do though if this team is going to take its next step.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Acknowledged that this team started to turn around when Book got healthy. But this is a different team than it was 5 weeks ago.

I am not sure any of us really mean we are better without him. Our defense is better without him. He does have some adjusting to do though if this team is going to take its next step.

I think it's more that he has some continued growth in front of him for this team to take its next step. But as fun as last night's win was, I'm pretty sure we won't see the same results when the opponents start scouting and preparing for us as a real threat rather than just the holiday we've been most of this season. And IMO we'll desperately need Booker's scoring when that happens.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Yes, I remember most boards had Murray around 8-10 and never in the top 5. That's unfortunate for us. I would be okay with trading him for Bender.

That year Jokic came a lot of European centers were in the late first round. Nurkic and Jokic and I think one more. I don't know who we got as second or third pick that year. Maybe that high flying SG from Kentucky? Suns usually don't go for slow skilled bigs in the draft, do they? Except for one of the Morris twins, I can't remember anyone...

My recollection was that Simmons and Ingram were the clear top 2, and that there was a group of 6 after them (really 5 until the Suns built hype for Chriss by considering him at 4).

Dunn
Bender
Hield
Murray
Brown

I wanted Murray the most so I was paying very close attention. He usually wasn't projected top 5 because of the fit with the Celtics and Suns, but I'm pretty sure he was top 5 more often than he fell out of the top 8.

Poeltl had a little hype, this board was the only place I saw Sabonis even considered top 8, and Maker was considered a big reach at 10.

Murray was my first choice despite the questionable fit, but I was also high on Bender and Chriss, so what do I know? haha

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think it's more that he has some continued growth in front of him for this team to take its next step. But as fun as last night's win was, I'm pretty sure we won't see the same results when the opponents start scouting and preparing for us as a real threat rather than just the holiday we've been most of this season. And IMO we'll desperately need Booker's scoring when that happens.

I think I disagree with this. Its a lot harder for teams to adjust to a balanced offense and a stifling defense. I do agree we will need his offense, but we cannot afford his poor defense or for him to stop the ball all the time. That has to change.

 

[Mainstreet]

It was a nice defensive effort by the Suns, it almost feels weird to say this because it has been a long time coming.

Also good games from Oubre and Ayton among others. Melton's defense on Murray may have been the key.

Whatever the Suns are doing on defensive they need to bottle it.

Glad to see Ayton being aggressive.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think I disagree with this. Its a lot harder for teams to adjust to a balanced offense and a stifling defense. I do agree we will need his offense, but we cannot afford his poor defense or for him to stop the ball all the time. That has to change.

First off, he didn't do this. He stopped the ball more often than he should have, slowed the tempo down too often and forced some shots he shouldn't have but those were still exceptions. Most of the time he plays team ball.

Booker played guard in high school on a one man team and had to do everything. That's his only experience at lead guard, he's clearly better playing shooting guard. And his defense goes from slightly below average to horrible when he's playing injured. I notice you say nothing about Warren's D but when his shot isn't falling his defense is worse than healthy Booker (but better than injured Booker).

Also, I wasn't just talking about them preparing for our defense. Until we give them a real reason, they aren't going to prepare for much else other than how to guard Booker and Ayton. String together a few wins like last night and you can bet they'll pay more attention to Oubre, Jackson, Holmes and Melton and how to defend them.

 

[gimpy]

I don't watch the Suns much anymore. And, I do think Booker is probably pretty good. But when I have seen him play, he seems not to play well.

Bad, unforced turnovers, misses fairly easy looking shots, and (as others have pointed out) just dribbles/does easy too much one on one or two.

I, for one, am glad to see him take a couple of games off, and see that the Suns can play good without him in the lineup.

Unfortunately, I think the NBA encourages and reinforces this type of one on one play with the newish rules and poor officiating.

 

[Mainstreet]

Melton is what I like about team basketball. It's not all about stats although Melton had 10 assists and 4 steals to go along with his 2 points.

Then there’s Melton.

He only scored two points, missing all seven of his shots, and was gassed from defending Murray, but battled through all that to impact the game in the fourth quarter.

"At the end of the day, it's all a mental thing," Melton said. "So I just try to block (out fatigue)."

The winded Melton pushed through in delivering four of his career-high 10 assists in the fourth along with a steal and a block.

“Melton was great tonight,” Kokoskov said.

So were the Suns in beating the team with the best record in the West.

The Suns definitely need to keep Oubre who had 26 points and 11 rebounds.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oubre is almost exactly what I thought Ariza would be, only more energetic. I know everyone on the Suns was more energetic than Ariza this year but I'm referring to the Ariza that was in Houston last year and that we've seen on the Lakers and elsewhere in the past. Oubre is a good defender, he can knock down 3's at a good rate, and he's all hustle. Despite not being in the league that long he's still a quality addition that is basically a vet on this team.

I was never much of an Ariza fan, always thought he was a little overrated and that was before he started showing signs of decline. But I am definitely in Oubre's corner right now, he's just exciting to watch. He's not great, mind you; like Jackson he makes too many mistakes but also like Jackson, he makes things happen out there.

 

[1Sun]

Arguably their best and most complete game since opening night. That being said, there were still some red flags, most notably Jackson reverting back to trying to do too much and playing out of control, and Warren playing poorly again. On the plus side, Ayton played very well, and Bridges continues to do the little things that don't show in the stat sheets. Then there's Oubre...

Oubre really needs to replace Warren in the starting line-up. He seems to be a key to this team's success. If Warren doesn't like it, trade him for a point guard or power forward.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was never much of an Ariza fan, always thought he was a little overrated and that was before he started showing signs of decline. But I am definitely in Oubre's corner right now, he's just exciting to watch. He's not great, mind you; like Jackson he makes too many mistakes but also like Jackson, he makes things happen out there.

It's still hard for me to swallow Igor wanted Ariza more than other players available in free agency who could have helped the team more.

However, if the Suns can keep Oubre, at least something good came out of the Ariza signing.

 

[SirStefan32]

I really liked Murray in his draft and preferred him over Bender. But he wasn’t really projected to go top 3 at all.

Jokic went in the 2nd rd and was just a total wildcard like Ginobili/Marc Gasol.

It was even worse with Jokic. He was severely overweight. He was over 300lb with huge man-boobs and inability to do a push up or a sit up a year or so before the draft, if I remember correctly. If I remember correctly, Milojevic (his coach) refused to let him practice until he stopped eating Cheetos and drinking two-liter bottles of Coke as if though they were glasses of water. He was in a better shape than that before the draft time, but I am sure the scouts remembered what he looked like a year or two before.

He also played in a relatively weak league, on a team that wasn't traditionally considered to be one of the best teams. If I remember correctly, one of the top teams gave him a tryout, but didn't sign him because he played like crap. I think it was either Barcelona or Real Madrid.

Disclaimer:
I am going from memory here, and my memory is not what it used to be so my timeline could be a bit off. The whole "Too fat to practice" thing may have been a couple of years before the draft, but the point is that there were some huge red flags around Jokic.