Nuggets @ Suns 1-12-18

[SirStefan32]

I don't know what kind of contract Oubre deserves but whatever he gets he's earning it. On top of all his natural ability he works hard on every play. He appears to be a great teammate. I think his development was held back in Washington playing behind Wall and Beal.

Porter too. Washington invested a lot into Porter, and I think that had negative effect on the opportunities they gave Oubre.

 

[SirStefan32]

A young team will be up and down. There are a lot of reasons to be optimistic to watch them grow and evolve from here on out. I hope they don't panic and do any stupid trades, or fire the coach or anything. They're looking good on both ends of the court (at least if you have a win or two fresh in mind), on top of that I think their strange is on defense. A Suns team. Imagine that. Josh is playing like he was last year. Oubre is doing what we expected from Ariza (more or less), Bridges is solid, and we're even getting decent games from Melton and Okobo. Melton is fantastic on defense and the offense usually flows well enough when he's out there. Let's go Suns.

I think that Sarver and Jones are a lot more level-headed than we (the fans) are. I am 100% sure that firing the coach has not even crossed their mind. Anti-Igor stuff is limited to a small number of posters on message boards. As for trades, I am sure they are looking at different options, but it really sounds like they are not in a hurry, and it also appears that they don't share our intrigue with various stop-gap measures.

I also agree with you on how strange it is to watch the Suns as a defensive team. For the past few weeks, when thinking about team identity, which is the first thing a young team has to create, my mind really goes to defense. It looks like the Suns are building an identity as a defensive team. Also, if Ayton plays like he did last night, building that identity is going to get a hell of a lot easier. Sure, Booker is a poor defender, but you can get away with one person not being a good defender if the rest of the team is made up of defensive stoppers.

Looking at the roster, outside of Booker, Warren, and Ayton, there is no bad defender in the rotation. Maybe Daniels and Crawford, but those guys are in the extended rotation short-term. Both young PGs are good defenders, all of the young wings are outstanding defenders, backup Center is an outstanding defender. Warren, while not great, is not a terrible defender, and Ayton shows signs of being able to be a good defensive player. Last night, his rotations were on point, and very aggressive, he got three blocks and he affected quite a few shots in the paint. It's amazing what happens when someone with that size and wingspan challenges every shot. Hell, even Booker played defense the last few games he played. I don't think he will ever be a good defender, or even an average one, but the last few games he played, he didn't look awful or non-existent on defense.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think that Sarver and McD are a lot more level-headed than we (the fans) are. I am 100% sure that firing the coach has not even crossed their mind. Anti-Igor stuff is limited to a small number of posters on message boards. As for trades, I am sure they are looking at different options, but it really sounds like they are not in a hurry, and it also appears that they don't share our intrigue with various stop-gap measures.

I also agree with you on how strange it is to watch the Suns as a defensive team. For the past few weeks, when thinking about team identity, which is the first thing a young team has to create, my mind really goes to defense. It looks like the Suns are building an identity as a defensive team. Also, if Ayton plays like he did last night, building that identity is going to get a hell of a lot easier. Sure, Booker is a poor defender, but you can get away with one person not being a good defender if the rest of the team is made up of defensive stoppers.

Looking at the roster, outside of Booker, Warren, and Ayton, there is no bad defender in the rotation. Maybe Daniels and Crawford, but those guys are in the extended rotation short-term. Both young PGs are good defenders, all of the young wings are outstanding defenders, backup Center is an outstanding defender. Warren, while not great, is not a terrible defender, and Ayton shows signs of being able to be a good defensive player. Last night, his rotations were on point, and very aggressive, he got three blocks and he affected quite a few shots in the paint. It's amazing what happens when someone with that size and wingspan challenges every shot. Hell, even Booker played defense the last few games he played. I don't think he will ever be a good defender, or even an average one, but the last few games he played, he didn't look awful or non-existent on defense.

Sarver and *Jones?

Agreed with the rest of your post except with maybe the part that Booker will never even be an average defender. He has shown in the past few weeks that when he is engaged on that end he can be a solid defender and he will have even more energy to use on that end when he gets a little more help running the offense.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's still hard for me to swallow Igor wanted Ariza more than other players available in free agency who could have helped the team more.

However, if the Suns can keep Oubre, at least something good came out of the Ariza signing.

Ariza just didn't fit with our lineup or our system, or maybe our franchise, but either way we didn't get the Ariza that Igor expected. I don't think Washington's going to get that guy either, I'm not sure he still has it in him. But yeah, if I knew it would lead to Oubre, I'd sign him too.

 

[Mainstreet]

Porter too. Washington invested a lot into Porter, and I think that had negative effect on the opportunities they gave Oubre.

Solid point. This gives me hope Oubre can be even better than he has showed so far.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ariza just didn't fit with our lineup or our system, or maybe our franchise, but either way we didn't get the Ariza that Igor expected. I don't think Washington's going to get that guy either, I'm not sure he still has it in him. But yeah, if I knew it would lead to Oubre, I'd sign him too.

IIRC, Ariza thought his role would be easier like taking 3 pointers to spread the court. Igor wanted him to do much more than that.

Let's hope the Suns stumbled into a solid contributor coming out of the Ariza trade.

 

[SirStefan32]

Sarver and *Jones?

Agreed with the rest of your post except with maybe the part that Booker will never even be an average defender. He has shown in the past few weeks that when he is engaged on that end he can be a solid defender and he will have even more energy to use on that end when he gets a little more help running the offense.

Good catch. I edited the original post. I was thinking "Jones" but typed "McD".

 

[devilalum]

It's still hard for me to swallow Igor wanted Ariza more than other players available in free agency who could have helped the team more.

However, if the Suns can keep Oubre, at least something good came out of the Ariza signing.

Even if they can’t keep him something good came out of the one year Ariza signing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SirStefan32]

Solid point. This gives me hope Oubre can be even better than he has showed so far.

What I like about Oubre is that he doesn't have major holes in his game. He is like a combination of the other wings. Warren is not a good defender and I question his "heart" or "drive" or whatever we want to call it. Jackson is not a good shooter, and he does some stupid stuff out there. Bridges right now is a Dragan Bender on offense. I am sure Bridges is going to get better offensively, I am sure JJ is going to calm down eventually, and even improve his shot, but Oubre is a good defender, good shooter, has the ability to dribble and create his own shot, and he plays mostly under control. Bridges and Jackson are probably better defenders, Warren (and maybe Bridges) are better shooters, but Oubre is by far the most complete player of all of the Suns' wings. Hell, he might be the most complete player on the entire roster, guards and centers included.

 

[Mainstreet]

What I like about Oubre is that he doesn't have major holes in his game. He is like a combination of the other wings. Warren is not a good defender and I question his "heart" or "drive" or whatever we want to call it. Jackson is not a good shooter, and he does some stupid stuff out there. Bridges right now is a Dragan Bender on offense. I am sure Bridges is going to get better offensively, I am sure JJ is going to calm down eventually, and even improve his shot, but Oubre is a good defender, good shooter, has the ability to dribble and create his own shot, and he plays mostly under control. Bridges and Jackson are probably better defenders, Warren (and maybe Bridges) are better shooters, but Oubre is by far the most complete player of all of the Suns' wings. Hell, he might be the most complete player on the entire roster, guards and centers included.

I agree. Oubre brings a lot to the Suns and some attitude as well. The Suns need this going forward. Can't have enough talent.

 

[Mainstreet]

Even if they can’t keep him something good came out of the one year Ariza signing.

This is true, however, if the Suns do not keep Oubre I am going to be so disappointed.

He has the talent and he has demonstrated he can play in the Suns system. The Suns need to add to these players... not take away.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Well this team plays better on 3 days rest. Especially Ayton.

 

[devilalum]

This is true, however, if the Suns do not keep Oubre I am going to be so disappointed.

He has the talent and he has demonstrated he can play in the Suns system. The Suns need to add to these players... not take away.

Do you ever step back and think how good can the best player on the worst team really be? Then start talking about the second third and fourth best players on the worst team and the picture gets even murkier.

Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. Or farther?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mainstreet]

Do you ever step back and think how good can the best player on the worst team really be? Then start talking about the second third and fourth best players on the worst team and the picture gets even murkier.

Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. Or farther?

I tend to be an optimist so I think the objects appear closer. IMO, the Suns have most of the pieces less a point guard. The Suns need to mature and if it happens quickly the turnaround can be dramatic.

This is not a team without talent. If the Suns add a point guard and a couple players upfront they should be very close.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is true, however, if the Suns do not keep Oubre I am going to be so disappointed.

He has the talent and he has demonstrated he can play in the Suns system. The Suns need to add to these players... not take away.

I am beginning to believe that we should keep all four of Oubre, Warren, Bridges, and Jackson. If we can draft a player like Zion, Warren or Jackson becomes movable for a piece we need. If we can develop Melton to starter level by the end of the year (I am not expecting this) the possibilities are endless.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am beginning to believe that we should keep all four of Oubre, Warren, Bridges, and Jackson. If we can draft a player like Zion, Warren or Jackson becomes movable for a piece we need. If we can develop Melton to starter level by the end of the year (I am not expecting this) the possibilities are endless.

This is where I am at as well. It would be a shocker if the Suns got the first pick again (projecting Zion going #1) but maybe the Suns luck is changing for the better.

As Melton sat out his last year of college, it is not far fetched to think he might progress to this point by the end of the season but I think the Suns are likely to add a starter at point guard anyway. The Suns need to keep an open mind as I think Okobo will steadily improve as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

nice to see a rock solid W against a very good team, with Ayton apparently playing big on both sides of the court.

 

[elindholm]

I know Ayton has been somewhat disappointing to many of us (including me), but have the Suns ever had a center rotation as good as Ayton and Holmes? This front office has made some blunders, but both the Holmes and Oubre acquisitions have turned out brilliantly.

 

[SirStefan32]

I know Ayton has been somewhat disappointing to many of us (including me), but have the Suns ever had a center rotation as good as Ayton and Holmes? This front office has made some blunders, but both the Holmes and Oubre acquisitions have turned out brilliantly.

I can't think of a better Center rotation since I've been watching the Suns (90s). It gets tricky if you start counting Amare as a real Center. He had a couple of seasons in which he was really good, so that might be comparable. I don't think it is, due to rebounding and defense and Ayton/ Holmes combo provide, but I can see someone making an argument that Amare had a year or two in which he was so good that he can compare to the current combo by himself.

To your last point- not only did Holmes and Oubre trades turn out well, but they acquired them for nothing (Holmes) and for the rotting corpse of Trevor Ariza (Oubre). Hell... might throw Melton for Chriss swap in the category of trades that worked out well. Knight and Anderson are both useless, so the trade was really Chriss for Melton. That's three good trades in a row that the Suns won by a large margin.

 

[devilalum]

I can't think of a better Center rotation since I've been watching the Suns (90s). It gets tricky if you start counting Amare as a real Center. He had a couple of seasons in which he was really good, so that might be comparable. I don't think it is, due to rebounding and defense and Ayton/ Holmes combo provide, but I can see someone making an argument that Amare had a year or two in which he was so good that he can compare to the current combo by himself.

To your last point- not only did Holmes and Oubre trades turn out well, but they acquired them for nothing (Holmes) and for the rotting corpse of Trevor Ariza (Oubre). Hell... might throw Melton for Chriss swap in the category of trades that worked out well. Knight and Anderson are both useless, so the trade was really Chriss for Melton. That's three good trades in a row that the Suns won by a large margin.

Ariza almost had a triple double yesterday but yeah I agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk