Official trade down and take Wilfork bandwagon

[MadRob]

Our Defense is going to just be Awful, just horrible this coming season... I'm sorry but I don't think any one player in the draft will help it that much... Besides, look at all the first, second, and third round picks we have on the line from just the past few drafts-We need some veteran leadership and experience...

I think that the only chance we have of winning this season will be by high scoring shootouts; with our offense now, we just won't be able to score enough... that is why I think we will draft one of the two receivers and either sign or draft at least one more Offensive lineman.... That in itself should lead to much more scoring..... Even if we lose, it should be more exciting and closer...

 

[football karma]

Wilforks play this year left many people underwhelmed --

suddenly, in anticipation of the draft, he drops 30 lbs and he shoots up the boards.

Why didnt he show up for his junior season in that kind of shape?

Any guarantee that those 30 lbs dont go right back on after he is drafted, or after he gets handed his signing bonus check?

While I agree that a disruptive inside defensive lineman is a crying need for the Cardinals, I would hate to pass on a player that actually produces to his talents to address a need with a player that has only done it in spurts.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by artp
We don't want Wilfork at #3. I know Green and Graves don't. Maybe in the top 10. Trading down to get Wilfork at 8-9-10 might be ok. My feeling is that Wilfork is not a player targeted by Coach Green.

What's this " We don't want Wilfork " crap. Have you got a mouse in your pocket? You might not want him, but I do.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by wallyburger
What's this " We don't want Wilfork " crap. Have you got a mouse in your pocket? You might not want him, but I do.

I'm very confused by this. Very confused indeed.

 

[Skkorpion]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Don't we have enough fat,under-achieving linemen on both sides of the ball right now?Why draft another one?To me, he's a prime example of a guy who has worked out for 3 months to get his weight down and once he's drafted will go right back up to 360 pounds.Unless we want to get BIg an eating buddy,then he is a "waisted" draft pick.

I want Wilfork as fat as Ted Washington. Ted goes abut 365 these days and he's immovable in the middle.

Who cares if Wilfork can move. His job is not to move at all. His job is to plug that middle and not be moved out of there.

 

[joeshmo]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I want Wilfork as fat as Ted Washington. Ted goes abut 365 these days and he's immovable in the middle.

Who cares if Wilfork can move. His job is not to move at all. His job is to plug that middle and not be moved out of there.

Good point. But the thing is that Wilfork can move well. He had 8 sacks in 2002, and 6 in 2003. As well as a great amount of TFL and tackles and that was playing at the weight of 350 - 360, just imagine what he can do at 330.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I want Wilfork as fat as Ted Washington. Ted goes abut 365 these days and he's immovable in the middle.

Who cares if Wilfork can move. His job is not to move at all. His job is to plug that middle and not be moved out of there.

So,according to you,he has hurt his draft stock by losing weight and getting down to 320 pounds . He may turn out to be a great pro.From the times i saw him play he was very average.,I'd rather have us draft guy who produced instead of based on his potential.

 

[kerouac9]

Can someone explain to me why/how Wilfork is a better prospect than Isaac Sopoaga, Donnell Washington, or Marcus Tubbs?

If you want someone to sit in the middle and play NT, any of these are good prospects. Wilfork is a little more of a finished product, I agree, but he's still only going to be effective on the field for maybe 45% of your defensive snaps, give or take.

Wilfork brings an extra pass-rushing dimension that the other prospects don't bring, but I'm comfortable with taking him off the field on passing downs for Bryant/Bell/King and maybe Wakefield. If that's the case, wouldn't it be better to spend the #3 on a more glamorous player and take the best of Sopoaga, Washington, and Tubbs at #33 (Or even trade up into the second round from the third, where possibly two of those three might still be available)?

 

[joeshmo]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
So,according to you,he has hurt his draft stock by losing weight and getting down to 320 pounds . He may turn out to be a great pro.From the times i saw him play he was very average.,I'd rather have us draft guy who produced instead of based on his potential.

He didnt produce?

AT 350- 360 lbs he produced a lot when 350 lb DT's are only used to stuff the middle and not get to many tackles or sacks or TFL, Wilfork went out and did the opposite.

Year Tackles TFL Sacks
2002 43 15 8
2003 64 12 6

By the way those tackle #'s are good for 4th on the team full of playmakers. Sean Taylor only had 13 more tackles. Plus Miami uses a rotating dline scheme so he still put up those numbers despite not being in on every play.

He not only produced but he also still has a load of potential and great character.

People got to remember that his mother died a few years back and became very depressed and turned to food to deal with it. In fact that is why he stayed in school last year when he was considered the top DT last year becuase he wanted to keep his promise to his mother and get his degree. Then his father dies about a year later, and turns to food again to deal with his depression. His life this past year is back on track, got his degree and keeped his promise to his mother and in fact just got married to his long time girlfriend. He has also shown a new commitment to fitness which he showed at the combine and his pro day workouts.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Those aren't great numbers against college OL.Plus maybe those numbers were a result of having great players around him.I'm not saying he's terrible but when i saw him play he was anything but dominant.He could just as easily turn into the next Barron Tanner as he could Ted Washington.I think there are alot more fat guys that can't play than can.

 

[Southpaw]

I can not figure out how Wilfork has gotten the bad rap as fat and lazy with some of you guys. This guy is an unbelievable success story. He was first round draft material had he come out last year. His position only improved this year.

Good gosh, you Arizona people ought to admire the guy. You do know about the heat/fatigue factor , don't you? Try taking the garbage can out to the curb in 96 degree 98 % humidity and tell me how you feel. The field temperature on the Orange Bowl reaches 120 degrees + during day games. During afternoon day games spectators are hauled away in ambulances from heat exhaustion and they get to drink beer and sit in the stands. Visiting teams turn into Clydesdales and sloths in the second half and he is still whooping ass in the 4th quarter. I have lived in South Florida for 45 + years and we learn to survive the heat and humidity by doing sensible things, not play 60 minutes of hell bent football. If you think night games are much better, forget it.

When my son played high school ball, down here, they would take puke breaks, in the middle of games and call them official's time outs. It is seriously unfair to say a Miami player takes plays off. Consider the fat ass O line of the Cards as taking plays off too.

P.S. Miami's d line M O is to rotate 8 guys throughout the game. This year , due to injuries and youth, that was not the case. Maybe on some of those " supposed plays off " Wilfork should have been sucking oxygen and hydrating on the sidelines as planned.

 

[maddogkf]

I say no. Don't trade down.

 

[joeshmo]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Those aren't great numbers against college OL.Plus maybe those numbers were a result of having great players around him.I'm not saying he's terrible but when i saw him play he was anything but dominant.He could just as easily turn into the next Barron Tanner as he could Ted Washington.I think there are alot more fat guys that can't play than can.

The old being surrounded by great players is why he has good stats theory is getting really old and played out becuase it doesnt hold water. If that was the case anyone that came out ot Miami or any good college would be considered bust material in every draft.

And 64 tackles and 6 sacks for a 350 lb DT or any DT no matter how big is good numbers there is no way around it. 64 tackles alone is good numbers. Got to remember those numbers are in 13 games not the NFL's 16 games.

Now I can buy the first hand saw the guy play and didnt look good arguement but the others are weak IMO. I to have seen him not play well in a few series but as a whole(I have seen every game) he looked great.

And the quote that he could easly be the next tanner as he could the next Washington is correct. Every player you pick in the draft can just as easly be a bad player as he could a good player, that is what the draft is all about.

Manning can just as easily be a Leaf as he could be a Payton.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Those aren't great numbers against college OL.Plus maybe those numbers were a result of having great players around him.I'm not saying he's terrible but when i saw him play he was anything but dominant.He could just as easily turn into the next Barron Tanner as he could Ted Washington.I think there are alot more fat guys that can't play than can.

Cbus. 6 Miami players will possibly be taken in the first round, over 100 scouts, coaches and GMs showed up at Miami's pro day. Every mock draft is littered with Miami players. The history of Miami success on the professional level is obvious.

Yet somehow , you don't like these players. You should be elated that such highly sought after athletes might actually end up on the Card's roster. Why is that? Is it the National Championship thing? They just might help the Cards.

 

[joeshmo]

Originally posted by wallyburger
I can not figure out how Wilfork has gotten the bad rap as fat and lazy with some of you guys. This guy is an unbelievable success story. He was first round draft material had he come out last year. His position only improved this year.

Good gosh, you Arizona people ought to admire the guy. You do know about the heat/fatigue factor , don't you? Try taking the garbage can out to the curb in 96 degree 98 % humidity and tell me how you feel. The field temperature on the Orange Bowl reaches 120 degrees + during day games. During afternoon day games spectators are hauled away in ambulances from heat exhaustion and they get to drink beer and sit in the stands. Visiting teams turn into Clydesdales and sloths in the second half and he is still whooping ass in the 4th quarter. I have lived in South Florida for 45 + years and we learn to survive the heat and humidity by doing sensible things, not play 60 minutes of hell bent football. If you think night games are much better, forget it.

When my son played high school ball, down here, they would take puke breaks, in the middle of games and call them official's time outs. It is seriously unfair to say a Miami player takes plays off. Consider the fat ass O line of the Cards as taking plays off too.

P.S. Miami's d line M O is to rotate 8 guys throughout the game. This year , due to injuries and youth, that was not the case. Maybe on some of those " supposed plays off " Wilfork should have been sucking oxygen and hydrating on the sidelines as planned.

Very Good points.

 

[Assface]

I'm all about Wilfork at 3.

With his size and explosiveness he will:

1. be a top notch run stuffer. His pressence will force more runs to the outside, making it easier for our fast outside linebackers to make more tackles for loss.

2. By taking an extra blocker/shrinking running holes he will keep blockers off of our undersized MLB. Having Wilfork will help cover for Ronnie Mac's athletic shortcomings.

3. In the passing game he will draw double teams, which will help Berry get 10+ sacks. The only player currently on our DL that scares any teams is someone who hasn't even played for us yet. If the C/G double Wilfork and they want to double Berry they need to leave in a TE or RB/FB, taking them out of the passing game. Blitzing lanes will be wide open.

I would like Sopoaga/Olshansky in the 2nd if we don't draft Wilfork, but we already have a bunch of raw prospects on our team and I'd prefer a football player over someone who is just a physical speciman and might turn out to be very good. I think VW can be a star.

 

[Ryanwb]

Dude, he's Warren Sapp with out the pot

 

[Assface]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
Dude, he's Warren Sapp with out the pot

Sapp just missunderstood what his agent meant when he said it's good to be drafted high.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
Dude, he's Warren Sapp with out the pot

Naw. He has a pretty big belly.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Originally posted by wallyburger
Cbus. 6 Miami players will possibly be taken in the first round, over 100 scouts, coaches and GMs showed up at Miami's pro day. Every mock draft is littered with Miami players. The history of Miami success on the professional level is obvious.

Yet somehow , you don't like these players. You should be elated that such highly sought after athletes might actually end up on the Card's roster. Why is that? Is it the National Championship thing? They just might help the Cards.

If you look back,you'll see where i said i want the Cards to draft Sean Taylor.I don't like Wilfork.I would love for DJ Williams to slide to round 2 and be taken at 33.I think you're a little too defensive of Miami players. BTW, there were more scouts at the OSU pro day than Miami's.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
DJ Williams

I think this guy's going to be one of the top players out of this entire draft. We just don't need him like we need other positions.

 

[vikesfan]

Originally posted by wallyburger
Cbus. 6 Miami players will possibly be taken in the first round, over 100 scouts, coaches and GMs showed up at Miami's pro day. Every mock draft is littered with Miami players. The history of Miami success on the professional level is obvious.

Yet somehow , you don't like these players. You should be elated that such highly sought after athletes might actually end up on the Card's roster. Why is that? Is it the National Championship thing? They just might help the Cards.

Well that is because Miami already has professionals playing for them.


Seriously, I had Wilfork pegged as the best 2 gap DT last year. Nothing has changed 1 year later. I think this guy will make a good pro. But I just can't see taking him at #3. You can get NTs later on sort of like the arguement used with Ss or Gs. How much can he give you in terms of making a difference? As much as a WR or G or even S? I don't know. If the Cards didn't have so many other holes... I like this guy. I like the fact he didn't come out that showed me something. Now if the Cards had 2 top ten picks hmmm...

I think DJ Williams gets pegged by the Vikes at #19.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
If you look back,you'll see where i said i want the Cards to draft Sean Taylor.I don't like Wilfork.I would love for DJ Williams to slide to round 2 and be taken at 33.I think you're a little too defensive of Miami players. BTW, there were more scouts at the OSU pro day than Miami's.

Probably trying to figure out how this happened to Chris Gamble:

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(That's Lee Evans BTW. He can't play.)

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by joeshmo

People got to remember that his mother died a few years back and became very depressed and turned to food to deal with it. In fact that is why he stayed in school last year when he was considered the top DT last year becuase he wanted to keep his promise to his mother and get his degree. Then his father dies about a year later, and turns to food again to deal with his depression. His life this past year is back on track, got his degree and keeped his promise to his mother and in fact just got married to his long time girlfriend. He has also shown a new commitment to fitness which he showed at the combine and his pro day workouts.

Well part of the reputation is based on him arriving in school at close to 380 pounds as a freshman.

Wilfork has NEVER been as light as he is now, since maybe 9th grade.

I'm EXTREMELY impressed with his current weight, of course this time last year the same things were being debated about Jimmy Kennedy. Then between workouts and the draft, he gained some weight back. Then he couldn't agree on a contract, and by the time he signed, he reported out of shape and was a non factor.

Now Wilfork is a MUCH better player than Kennedy but that's why people are concerned about his weight, he's got a history of being 350 or higher and people are concerned about that.

Wally's point about the heat and humidity is a valid one, it DOES take its toll on linemen.

The bottom line is drafting a guy at #3 is a huge investment and you have to make some tough calls, do you overlook 3 years + of a guy being 350 or more, because he's 323 now? That's a very tough call to make. He's an amazing athlete and he could be every bit as dominant as a healthy Eric Swann was, but if he puts on the weight again that probably won't happen.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
If you look back,you'll see where i said i want the Cards to draft Sean Taylor.I don't like Wilfork.I would love for DJ Williams to slide to round 2 and be taken at 33.I think you're a little too defensive of Miami players. BTW, there were more scouts at the OSU pro day than Miami's.

OSU beats Miami again. ????? - 100 +. Must have been that infamous backfield judge doing the counting.