OH PLEASE OH PLEASE! Terrell Suggs wants to play for Cardinals

[40yearfan]

Mmmm, not really, because that would have left BJ available, because we weren't taking him at #6. Therefore, BJ would have gone off the board before Boldin.

Stout, there is no way you can know that. It's just like a house of dominoes. It will never tumble the same way twice when you pull that first dominoe out. You change one thing in a string of events and it will have a ripple effect for any events after that change. Unless you believe all things are pre-ordained?

 

[BigDavis75]

You still don't get my point Stout. Once we don't pursue the trade and use that number 6 pick on someone different, everything after that changes. We would have taken someone another team picking later than us wanted which would cause them to change their pick causing other teams below them to change their picks and the whole draft would have been different.

We have no way of knowing how different, but odds are that Boldin would have gone to another team before we got to him in the second round.

This doesn't hold any water because not only would there have been another player at Boldin's position in BJ but we would also have been picking several spots higher in the 2nd.

 

[Duckjake]

When I look at it, we got two starters out of two picks.

The trade was a bad deal at the time but the 2003 draft in Cardinal terms was one of the most productive in years.

Now if you want to talk about a horrible draft, that would be the year before when, in one of my worst moments as a Cardinal fan, the commish announced the Arizona Cardinals selection of Wendall Bryant.

OT: Does Pace's play this year mean that with Okeafor back the Cards can move Pace to the other OLB and reduce our need to look for an OLB in the draft or free agency?

If we can get a real good olb fine, but, we don't have to.

 

[Redheart]

...
Now if you want to talk about a horrible draft, that would be the year before when, in one of my worst moments as a Cardinal fan, the commish announced the Arizona Cardinals selection of Wendall Bryant...

Thankfully, that is all over now.

Only the nightmares remain...

Wendall Bryant. Worst Cardinal #1 pick ever.

 

[Stout]

OT: Does Pace's play this year mean that with Okeafor back the Cards can move Pace to the other OLB and reduce our need to look for an OLB in the draft or free agency?

If we can get a real good olb fine, but, we don't have to.

I don't think we should not look at the position because of Pace. I wouldn't want to just hand him the starting position, because he's not proven to be enough of an impact player. Has he shown enough to be a solid platoon player and a spot starter? Sure, but not more than that...yet. IMO, of course.

 

[Stout]

40, you and others are getting mired in 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in an attempt to justify an atrocious component of an atrocious trade. No 'what ifs'. Boldin would have been on the board when we picked. Maybe we would have taken him there and maybe not. Maybe, maybe, maybe. The only FACT we have is that, not only did we add in a 4th round pick on a trade that was already even, we traded down half a round in the 2nd round on top of it. THAT is the only fact we should be looking at. It was a stupid decision, IMO, and it's hard to argue it wasn't.

 

[Cards Czar]

I thought the topic of the post was about Terrell Suggs.??

 

[overseascardfan]

Why don't we sign both Pace & Suggs. On 3rd down we could put either at DE to rush the QB and a LB corp of Suggs, Pace, Dansby & Hayes would be very nice and we really wouldn't have to worry about the line because our 3-4 setup would be Smith, Watson/Branch, & Dockett and the 4-3 would be Pace, Dockett, Watson & Branch. Okeafor would provide breathers for Pace & Suggs so he would be more effective not playing a whole game. We would have to cut Berry and maybe see if we could restructure or ask Okeafor to take a pay cut. It would allow us to take a RB or CB in Round 1 and the other in Round 2. Rest of draft focus on BPA, OL/DL, LB depth.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Thankfully, that is all over now.

Only the nightmares remain...

Wendall Bryant. Worst Cardinal #1 pick ever.

:shudder:

 

[earthsci]

Thankfully, that is all over now.

Only the nightmares remain...

Wendall Bryant. Worst Cardinal #1 pick ever.

But we needed him.

 

[40yearfan]

This doesn't hold any water because not only would there have been another player at Boldin's position in BJ but we would also have been picking several spots higher in the 2nd.

So you can say with absolute certainty that the Boldin would have been there in the second round and the Cards would have drafted him?

You need to take your crystal ball to Vegas.

 

[40yearfan]

Why don't we sign both Pace & Suggs. On 3rd down we could put either at DE to rush the QB and a LB corp of Suggs, Pace, Dansby & Hayes would be very nice and we really wouldn't have to worry about the line because our 3-4 setup would be Smith, Watson/Branch, & Dockett and the 4-3 would be Pace, Dockett, Watson & Branch. Okeafor would provide breathers for Pace & Suggs so he would be more effective not playing a whole game. We would have to cut Berry and maybe see if we could restructure or ask Okeafor to take a pay cut. It would allow us to take a RB or CB in Round 1 and the other in Round 2. Rest of draft focus on BPA, OL/DL, LB depth.

Great idea, but I think we could do this without having to ask Okeafor to take a pay cut. We are in a very healthy cap situation thanks to RG and should be able to do just about anything we want to do.

 

[BigDavis75]

So you can say with absolute certainty that the Boldin would have been there in the second round and the Cards would have drafted him?

You need to take your crystal ball to Vegas.

You said if we didn't make the trade that Boldin probably would have been gone when we picked. There is no way that he wouldn't have been there at #37 with no trade when we got him after the trade at #54. You should probably re-read what you typed earlier.

 

[Stout]

I thought the topic of the post was about Terrell Suggs.??

Actually, I have just decided I'd like us to go after Suggs. And sign Pace to a sensible contract. And have Berry re-structure to stay. Suggs would cost us, Pace shouldn't cost a ton, and our LB corps would be SOLID.

 

[NightHawk11and81]

Actually, I have just decided I'd like us to go after Suggs. And sign Pace to a sensible contract. And have Berry re-structure to stay. Suggs would cost us, Pace shouldn't cost a ton, and our LB corps would be SOLID.

Cool. You're entitled to that opinion. Does this mean we can cease all talk of the 2003 draft in this topic?

 

[TheCardFan]

Actually, I have just decided I'd like us to go after Suggs. And sign Pace to a sensible contract. And have Berry re-structure to stay. Suggs would cost us, Pace shouldn't cost a ton, and our LB corps would be SOLID.

You could have saved all that time and just agreed with me on page 2.

I would cut Berry and Chike and sign Suggs.

Suggs, Dansby, Hayes, Pace

 

[Stout]

You could have saved all that time and just agreed with me on page 2.

What, you wanted me to be on topic all this time?

Edit: Actually, you want to cut Berry and Okeafor. No way do I want that. I want to try and get Berry to take a paycut, and see no reason to jettison Okeafor.

 

[40yearfan]

You said if we didn't make the trade that Boldin probably would have been gone when we picked. There is no way that he wouldn't have been there at #37 with no trade when we got him after the trade at #54. You should probably re-read what you typed earlier.

But you can't say that with certainty. Once you change the dynamics of the draft by not trading down, all bets are off as to what will follow. There was no guarantee Boldin would be there. Since this scenerio didn't happen, we will never know what would happen.

If we had been drafting at 37 and BJ would have still been available, would they have taken BJ instead? Probably. Or maybe another player would have been at the top of the Cards board at that point in the draft.

You can't deal in absolutes if there is no way to change history.

 

[40yearfan]

40, you and others are getting mired in 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in an attempt to justify an atrocious component of an atrocious trade. No 'what ifs'. Boldin would have been on the board when we picked. Maybe we would have taken him there and maybe not. Maybe, maybe, maybe. The only FACT we have is that, not only did we add in a 4th round pick on a trade that was already even, we traded down half a round in the 2nd round on top of it. THAT is the only fact we should be looking at. It was a stupid decision, IMO, and it's hard to argue it wasn't.

Hey, I said it was a bad trade. Read my previous posts. My argument is that in spite of the bad trade, that overall draft was still a good one. And you can't say for certain that even if Boldin was still on the board that the Cards would have drafted him at #37. If BJ was still there, they would have drafted him instead. Can you say for sure BJ wouldn't have been there?

 

[Stout]

Hey, I said it was a bad trade. Read my previous posts. My argument is that in spite of the bad trade, that overall draft was still a good one. And you can't say for certain that even if Boldin was still on the board that the Cards would have drafted him at #37. If BJ was still there, they would have drafted him instead. Can you say for sure BJ wouldn't have been there?

All I am trying to do is inject actual logic. FACT: We traded back in the 2nd round. FACT: Boldin was available when we would have picked in the 2nd. FACT: that pick was traded back. FACT: Boldin still fell to us. Those facts don't add up to a savvy trade. They add up to nothing, in themselves, which is why it's a bad component to the trade--because it was unnecessary.

We should have stood pat and forced New Orleans to accept the #6 and our 4th rounder, which was still too much. What would have happened then? Who knows and who cares. I just can't stand that people try to point to us giving up such a huge throw-in to that trade a positive.

 

[NightHawk11and81]

Guess my post was wishful thinking.

 

[vinnymac]

I'm pretty sure that Reggie Wells and Gerald Hayes both have extended their contracts.

I thought Hayes was drafted by Dennis Green. My bad.

 

[cardsfanmd]

All I am trying to do is inject actual logic. FACT: We traded back in the 2nd round. FACT: Boldin was available when we would have picked in the 2nd. FACT: that pick was traded back. FACT: Boldin still fell to us. Those facts don't add up to a savvy trade. They add up to nothing, in themselves, which is why it's a bad component to the trade--because it was unnecessary.

We should have stood pat and forced New Orleans to accept the #6 and our 4th rounder, which was still too much. What would have happened then? Who knows and who cares. I just can't stand that people try to point to us giving up such a huge throw-in to that trade a positive.

I have rethought my prior stance and actually wont puke if we were to sign Suggs (mainly because I know that we wont).

Are you saying that Graves messed up by trading down in the second and getting Boldin later? If so that is just ridiculous, because had we taken him with 6th overall and then Mel Kiper and all of friends would have laughed hysterically @ us. You and everyone else would have called for Grave's job because he reached too far and could have had the guy in the second round. Getting the player(s) they want as late as possible is something every GM (should) strive for.

 

[40yearfan]

All I am trying to do is inject actual logic. FACT: We traded back in the 2nd round. FACT: Boldin was available when we would have picked in the 2nd.

But how do you know that would have been the same if we didn't make the trade? That is not a fact in this sense, only conjecture. It didn't happen, so you can't say with certainty that it would have happened this way. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

FACT: that pick was traded back. FACT: Boldin still fell to us. Those facts don't add up to a savvy trade. They add up to nothing, in themselves, which is why it's a bad component to the trade--because it was unnecessary.

We should have stood pat and forced New Orleans to accept the #6 and our 4th rounder, which was still too much. What would have happened then? Who knows and who cares. I just can't stand that people try to point to us giving up such a huge throw-in to that trade a positive.

I have yet to see anyone on this board call that trade a positive thing. Where are you getting this from? We are saying it was a good draft in spite of the trade.

 

[earthsci]

I thought Hayes was drafted by Dennis Green. My bad.

The funny thing is, everyone (except you ) has alot of truth in what they are saying in this thread IMO.

• It wasn't a great trade. At least BJ and Pace weren't busts but what we got is not what you expect when you start the draft with the #6 pick. Maybe if we had ended up with some combo from the remaining players like Jeff Faine, Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, Larry Johnson, Nnamdi Asomugha & Eric Steinbach.
• It was a pretty good draft in spite of the trade. 5 out of 7 have played pretty important roles on our team.
• We probably wouldn't have drafted Anquan if we hadn't moved back in the second round considering that we almost passed on Anquan where we did pick.
• Suggs may very well have been much less effective here since he probably would have been thrown at DE instead of OLB in a 3-4.