OH PLEASE OH PLEASE! Terrell Suggs wants to play for Cardinals

[CardLogic]

LOL Are you for real? The only way Boldin figures into the trade is in a negative way...because we risked not getting him by trading down. You seem to be saying that, because the war room was too incompetent to be willing to take him in one spot, they should be praised for including a bad tradedown as part of another deal, because a good player fell into their laps. Wow. Your logic, or lack thereof, astounds.

If that isn't what you mean, then please elaborate. A tradeback in the 2nd round on top of an already bad throw-in of a 4th rounder is what it is...a bad call. There isn't a justification for it...it was sheer dumb luck that landed us Boldin where we got him.

No I said very specifically, "Boldin did figure in the trade because the Cardinals very likely would not have taken him at pick #37!" Obviously neither did any other team, because hewas not valued that high, at that time.

Clearly if the Cardinals had the #37 pick instead of the #54 pick they would not have drafted Boldin there. That is the point, and explanation of how his selection was dependent upon the trade.

The Cardinals primary need, for which the were drafting, obviously, was DL, not WR. Had the trade not occurred they would have taken someone like Sullivan, or Kennedy which were the names being mentioned at the time at #6; then selected BJ at #37 which was more appropriate to where he should have been selected as many "pundits", again at the time, indicated.

Last comment regarding the topic:
Was the trade a bad move? Yes, I can agree on that. Was the outcome of the trade bad, relative to what it might have been? No, imo it worked out fairly well for the Cardinals.

Disagree all you care, but I would appreciate you knock off the rhetoric questioning my acumen, logic, mental capabilities, etc. It doesn't do anything to support your argument.

 

[40yearfan]

SHEESH!!!! Here we are almost 5 years later and we are still agonizing about a trade that most of us didn't agree with?

Some of you guys are worse than a wife. They never forget anything, nor will they let you forget it.

I agree with CFM and CL. It was a good draft considering the fact that it was a lousy trade. If we hadn't of made the trade, we might not have gotten Boldin. Who knows how the rest of the draft would have unfolded if we didn't make that trade.

What's done is done. Accept it and move on. This constant critisizing of the Cards history accomplishes absolutely nothing. They've made mistakes and I'm sure they realize what those mistakes were. You only use history to make sure you don't repeat the same mistakes. The problem with running an NFL team is you don't know for sure that a move is a mistake until several years down the road.

As it looks now, that trade might have just been the Cards hitting rock bottom. DG wasn't the saviour we hoped he would be, but he did help us get some decent talent.

 

[Jetstream Green]

when possible

this team needs to meet with Suggs and see what his intentions are, if they are truely favorable to the Cardinals...say goodbye to Pace and let Johnson walk as most suspect. If the Cards don't sign him, there will be a team probably around our same cap position that will. Get out the books Grave if he wants to come over to play for Zona and make it work and still have Dansby, with a restructure of Fitz's contract. Suggs would be VERY nice in our defense and I think Graves and company would agree too. As far as the organization saying it will not be active in free-agency at a big name level...well that changes with the FA environment as it evolves.

 

[cardsfanmd]

We'll still have to disagree about the trade itself, though. I will maintain it was a lousy trade, and I have yet to hear how it can have been a good one. If it had simply been BJ/Pace for the #6? Arguments could be made. We threw a couple of more additions to make it sweeter for the Saints and worse for us, though, making it more of a rape than a trade.

When I look at it, we got two starters out of two picks. With the amount of busts in the draft nowadays, you have to call that a success IMHO. Had we taken Suggs he would have been a bum here IMO. At his cost that would have been very detrimental(sp?).

You can say BJ is an average #3 and I will accept that, but there is no reason to hate on Pace. The guy is a natural 3-4 SSLB. It is not his fault that he was drafted into the wrong system. As for him being an average "platoon" LB, I have to disagree. You said that you missed much of the season due to work, and that is evident. He was consistantly above average all year.

As far as us almost missing out on Boldin by trading down in the 2nd, you make no sense. Why complain about getting a guy later than we could have. We got the guy we wanted and saved a few bucks @ the same time.

All I have to say about the other pick we gave up is Buster Davis.

I guess in the end, I think that many fans have been spoiled by Graves good drafts. The 2004 draft, where we got 5 starters and 3 pro bowlers is not normal, and can't be expected annually. IMO, 2-3 starters out of a draft is average.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I'm so tired of this argument made to defend the Cards not drafting/signing/re-signing a player. What the hell kind of thinking is that? "We're so bad, we make most good players suck?"


.

At the time of that draft the answer is blatently yes.

 

[40yearfan]

this team needs to meet with Suggs and see what his intentions are, if they are truely favorable to the Cardinals...say goodbye to Pace and let Johnson walk as most suspect. If the Cards don't sign him, there will be a team probably around our same cap position that will. Get out the books Grave if he wants to come over to play for Zona and make it work and still have Dansby, with a restructure of Fitz's contract. Suggs would be VERY nice in our defense and I think Graves and company would agree too. As far as the organization saying it will not be active in free-agency at a big name level...well that changes with the FA environment as it evolves.

Sorry JG, but I gotta disagree with you strongly on this. I have no problem getting Suggs and I hope we do, but not at the expense of losing Pace. Thanks to RG's judicious use of the salary cap, we can afford both.

 

[cardsfanmd]

this team needs to meet with Suggs and see what his intentions are, if they are truely favorable to the Cardinals...say goodbye to Pace and let Johnson walk as most suspect. If the Cards don't sign him, there will be a team probably around our same cap position that will. Get out the books Grave if he wants to come over to play for Zona and make it work and still have Dansby, with a restructure of Fitz's contract. Suggs would be VERY nice in our defense and I think Graves and company would agree too. As far as the organization saying it will not be active in free-agency at a big name level...well that changes with the FA environment as it evolves.

Watch what you ask for.

 

[Assface]

Last comment regarding the topic:
Was the trade a bad move? Yes, I can agree on that. Was the outcome of the trade bad, relative to what it might have been? No, imo it worked out fairly well for the Cardinals.

Pretty much my take, too. Overall it was a very good draft so I'm not going to complain about the trade. I'm happy with the player Pace has become and it doesn't bother me that it took him this long to develop because we didn't exactly miss our window of opportunity because we were waiting on him. The team as a whole is just starting reach that level so it's worked out well.

In the long run, we made out better than the Saints in that trade. They drafted a total bust. At least Pace has become a good starting OLB.

 

[cardsfanmd]

CFMD:

The problem for Arizona-based fans is that many of us saw Terrell Suggs first be a difference-maker for the ASU Sun Devils. And that we saw that draft as a chance for the Cardinals to fill a need with a legitimate home-grown star.

When the Cards traded out of the spot, those of us trying to see the glass as half-full hoped that Suggs really was too slow to play at a high level in the NFL, and that Graves had found two underrated players in BJ and Pace. So it really s*cked when Suggs went to Pro Bowls with the Ravens, while Pace sat on the bench and Johnson dropped passes that hit him in the hands.

You may be right that Suggs wouldn't have played as well for the Cards. Certainly his surrounding cast in Baltimore has mostly been a cut above, and the Cardinals' recent coaching staffs didn't distinguish themselves in developing talent. But Arizona football fans have watched Terrell Suggs terrorize opposing QBs at both the collegiate and pro levels, and we're tired of hearing that he couldn't have done it for the Cardinals.

I'd like to see him get the chance to try.

WC

I completely understand what you're saying and appreciate your honesty.

I am a diehard Syracuse fan and naturally see lots of MD football because they are local. Because of that I wanted us to go after Josh Wilson, Vernon Davis and Tanard Jackson in the last two years. I made a great call on Jackson (who was a stud FS for Tampa this year and would have kept Holt from starting), and a decent call on Wilson (who was drafted in the second round to be a nickel back and STer and has excelled as such) but Davis hasn't been half the player I expected him to be.

I was blinded by homerism, as I would say most of the Suggs fans on this board were/are.

 

[vinnymac]

How you answer the agruement of 2003 draft is who is still under contract with the Cardinals today? I believe only Boldin. He re-upped two years ago. Who else from that draft had their contracts extended?

 

[Assface]

How you answer the agruement of 2003 draft is who is still under contract with the Cardinals today? I believe only Boldin. He re-upped two years ago. Who else from that draft had their contracts extended?

Bryant Johnson
Calvin Pace
Anquan Boldin
Gerald Hayes
Kenny King
Reggie Wells
Tony Gilbert

5/7 are still with the team. Boldin, Wells and Hayes were all extended/re-signed. Paec and Johnson are TBD this offseason. Gilbert is playing for Jacksonville. The only player we drafted who isn't still playing is Kenny King and that's because of injuries.

 

[Assface]

You also seem to be under the impression that Suggs was the only player available when we picked; he wasn't.

BTW, speaking of there being other players available, weren't you firmly on the Leftwich bandwagon? I was just going through some old threads from the 2003 draft and there was a lot of love for the QB who is on his second team and who, as a fifth year veteran QB, started only 2 games for a team that finished 4-12.

 

[Assface]

Interesting read from Pro Football Weekly, circa 2003.

I find it funny that he followed up calling Pace and Johnson bad picks by referring to Duane Starks, Freddie Jones, Emmitt Smith and Jeff Blake as good FA pick ups. Hindsight 20/20.

 

[earthsci]

How you answer the agruement of 2003 draft is who is still under contract with the Cardinals today? I believe only Boldin. He re-upped two years ago. Who else from that draft had their contracts extended?

I'm pretty sure that Reggie Wells and Gerald Hayes both have extended their contracts.

 

[NightHawk11and81]

I can't honestly say I want Suggs tremendously, but I want him more than Faneca. I think Faneca is on the downside of his career and is not the player we need to improve the offensive line. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to improve the line. But I don't believe Faneca is the one we need to do it.

Someone also suggested Drayton Florence. That would please me.

 

[Darth Llama]

I can't honestly say I want Suggs tremendously, but I want him more than Faneca. I think Faneca is on the downside of his career and is not the player we need to improve the offensive line. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to improve the line. But I don't believe Faneca is the one we need to do it.

Someone also suggested Drayton Florence. That would please me.

Might have been me, there are a few here that want Florence. I think he would be a perfect fit in our secondary and shouldn't break the bank. If we somehow managed to add him and Suggs we would make the playoffs just on our defense alone.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I can't honestly say I want Suggs tremendously, but I want him more than Faneca. I think Faneca is on the downside of his career and is not the player we need to improve the offensive line. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to improve the line. But I don't believe Faneca is the one we need to do it.

Someone also suggested Drayton Florence. That would please me.

I will take Pee Wee Herman before I get excited over us wasting money on Suggs.

 

[Stout]

No I said very specifically, "Boldin did figure in the trade because the Cardinals very likely would not have taken him at pick #37!" Obviously neither did any other team, because hewas not valued that high, at that time.

Clearly if the Cardinals had the #37 pick instead of the #54 pick they would not have drafted Boldin there. That is the point, and explanation of how his selection was dependent upon the trade.

The Cardinals primary need, for which the were drafting, obviously, was DL, not WR. Had the trade not occurred they would have taken someone like Sullivan, or Kennedy which were the names being mentioned at the time at #6; then selected BJ at #37 which was more appropriate to where he should have been selected as many "pundits", again at the time, indicated.

Last comment regarding the topic:
Was the trade a bad move? Yes, I can agree on that. Was the outcome of the trade bad, relative to what it might have been? No, imo it worked out fairly well for the Cardinals.

Disagree all you care, but I would appreciate you knock off the rhetoric questioning my acumen, logic, mental capabilities, etc. It doesn't do anything to support your argument.

My bad for the questioning of your logic. I still strongly disagree and have yet to read how it was a good trade, but that just means we disagree.

As for the 2nd round pick...wow. Spin city, baby. We traded back, lucked into getting a guy who we clearly weren't too terribly enamored with, and somehow we were wise and smart? No, trading back in the 2nd was horrendous. It was pure, dumb luck that Boldin was sitting there for us, plain and simple. In no way, shape, or form, does it make it a good trade. It remains and always will remaim yet another sore spot in a lousy trade.

 

[Stout]

SHEESH!!!! Here we are almost 5 years later and we are still agonizing about a trade that most of us didn't agree with?

Some of you guys are worse than a wife. They never forget anything, nor will they let you forget it.

I agree with CFM and CL. It was a good draft considering the fact that it was a lousy trade. If we hadn't of made the trade, we might not have gotten Boldin. Who knows how the rest of the draft would have unfolded if we didn't make that trade.

What's done is done. Accept it and move on. This constant critisizing of the Cards history accomplishes absolutely nothing. They've made mistakes and I'm sure they realize what those mistakes were. You only use history to make sure you don't repeat the same mistakes. The problem with running an NFL team is you don't know for sure that a move is a mistake until several years down the road.

As it looks now, that trade might have just been the Cards hitting rock bottom. DG wasn't the saviour we hoped he would be, but he did help us get some decent talent.

Nope, sorry, I will NOT let this pass. Trading down in the 2nd was a bad, bad part of the trade we made. We LUCKED into Boldin and did not do anything smart in the 2nd round. To the contrary, we both passed on him and traded far back, which made it far less likely to snag him. We're lucky he was there for us.

 

[Stout]

BTW, speaking of there being other players available, weren't you firmly on the Leftwich bandwagon? I was just going through some old threads from the 2003 draft and there was a lot of love for the QB who is on his second team and who, as a fifth year veteran QB, started only 2 games for a team that finished 4-12.

D'oh! Yes indeed I was. The QBs I have seriously pimped thus far have been Lefty, Big Ben, and Cutler. Lefty was a mistake, IMO Big Ben would have been a solid pick, and I was okay with us passing on Cutler because Leinart had fallen.

 

[wierwolf]

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I remember the trade. I was so pissed. The guy i wanted,very badly, was Byron Leftwich, who i think in a different situation would have been,and still can be, a very good QB. As for the trade, i still think it stunk. People are giving way more credit than me to Calvin Pace. The guys has had about 10 good games in 5 years,about 8 of them in his contract year. Regardless of his surrounding cast, Suggs had been to the pro bowl while Pace couldn't even get on the field for a bad team.As for Johnson, he's been pretty much what everyone thought, a guy we reached for that is, at best, a #3 receiver. I wouldn't really care if both are gone. Pace had a decent year but it may have been more about scheme than anything else. I would think a more talented guy, and there are plenty out there, would have had a better year than Pace. I think Suggs is more talented than Pace but i wouldn't break the bank on him. I don't quite recall exactly but wasn't Pace drafted to fill the need right after we let Simeon Rice go for nothing? Does that sound familiar?

 

[NightHawk11and81]

I will take Pee Wee Herman before I get excited over us wasting money on Suggs.

I didn't say I wanted Suggs either. But I'd like him more than Faneca.

 

[40yearfan]

Nope, sorry, I will NOT let this pass. Trading down in the 2nd was a bad, bad part of the trade we made. We LUCKED into Boldin and did not do anything smart in the 2nd round. To the contrary, we both passed on him and traded far back, which made it far less likely to snag him. We're lucky he was there for us.

You still don't get my point Stout. Once we don't pursue the trade and use that number 6 pick on someone different, everything after that changes. We would have taken someone another team picking later than us wanted which would cause them to change their pick causing other teams below them to change their picks and the whole draft would have been different.

We have no way of knowing how different, but odds are that Boldin would have gone to another team before we got to him in the second round.

 

[Stout]

You still don't get my point Stout. Once we don't pursue the trade and use that number 6 pick on someone different, everything after that changes. We would have taken someone another team picking later than us wanted which would cause them to change their pick causing other teams below them to change their picks and the whole draft would have been different.

We have no way of knowing how different, but odds are that Boldin would have gone to another team before we got to him in the second round.

Mmmm, not really, because that would have left BJ available, because we weren't taking him at #6. Therefore, BJ would have gone off the board before Boldin.