OK, we got the Spurs, now what?

[TucsonDevil]

I know Shaq has shut down Duncan in the last two games, but to say that he's owned him his whole career is not accurate. Go back and watch the 2003 playoffs, when the Spurs ended the Laker dynasty and shut down the Forum. Duncan was unstoppable.

Guys, my memory is foggy. When did the Spurs ever beat the Lakers in the Playoffs? As I recall, 2003 playoffs saw the Lakers again beat the Spurs then lose to the Pistons in the Finals. Am I wrong?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Guys, my memory is foggy. When did the Spurs ever beat the Lakers in the Playoffs? As I recall, 2003 playoffs saw the Lakers again beat the Spurs then lose to the Pistons in the Finals. Am I wrong?

they stomped their asses in a 4 game sweep back in 1999 and then kicked the crap out of them again in 6, winning in LA by 36 to end the three-peat in 2003. The Lakers beat them in 2004 in a series the Spurs had a 2-0 lead, kicking the crap out of them, then they crapped the bed in LA, sent it home 2-2, then .4 and then the Spurs curled up in the fetal position in Game 6 to end the series (kind of like we did last year).

 

[Yuma]

LA may have Kobe, and the Lakers may have won series against WC teams during the REGULAR season. However, with all due respect, the Spurs have been counted out time and again only to have a team the excels during the playoffs when a different style of ball is played. Do the Lakers have a playoff style team? We'll see. We KNOW that San Antonio has a playoff style team. The have the rings to show for it. What have the Lakers done since Shaq left?

 

[Cheesebeef]

LA may have Kobe, and the Lakers may have won series against WC teams during the REGULAR season. However, with all due respect, the Spurs have been counted out time and again only to have a team the excels during the playoffs when a different style of ball is played. Do the Lakers have a playoff style team? We'll see. We KNOW that San Antonio has a playoff style team. The have the rings to show for it. What have the Lakers done since Shaq left?

uh, Yuma, don't take this the wrong way, but who cares about the Lakers since Shaq left? The conversation isn't about Lakers all time v. Spurs all time. It's pertaining to Shaq v. Duncan.

 

[Ninjafish]

I'll say this about this series, I don't think either set of fans or coaches wanted to see this matchup in the first round.

I think you're wrong judging by "Who wants Spurs in the first round" thread.

I want them, not because I'm so confident about it, but because I want to know if we're capable of beating a team like the Spurs right off the bat.

We're supposedly built to beat the Spurs now. So if we still can't beat them, then we definitely have no chance at winning it all. I want to find out if we do have a chance or not early.

If we beat them, then I think we go all the way. Our players will feel like they can beat anybody.

A win over Houston wouldn't have told us anything about our team. It would be just like the win over the Lakers last year. It didn't get our players ready for the upcoming rounds. It didn't do anything really except tease the fans since it was such a slaughter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think you're wrong judging by "Who wants Spurs in the first round" thread.

I want them, not because I'm so confident about it, but because I want to know if we're capable of beating a team like the Spurs right off the bat.

We're supposedly built to beat the Spurs now. So if we still can't beat them, then we definitely have no chance at winning it all. I want to find out if we do have a chance or not early.

If we beat them, then I think we go all the way. Our players will feel like they can beat anybody.

A win over Houston wouldn't have told us anything about our team. It would be just like the win over the Lakers last year. It didn't get our players ready for the upcoming rounds. It didn't do anything really except tease the fans since it was such a slaughter.

you're right, I should have just left it to our coaches and a lot of our fans don't want it. And if you think our coaches or players wanted the Spurs in the first round, I'd say that's pretty unrealistic. They know the West is gonna be a war of attrition and the best way to get through that is to take on as few casualties (meaning games played) as possible during the early rounds so you're not exhausted by the time you play the "games that tell us about our team". Starting out with probably the second biggest favorite in the conference, on the road isn't good anyway you slice it, especially with a team as old as ours.

 

[nikko]

I think Suns just have to play their game- dump the ball to Shaq and Amare in the low post and let them work. Let Shaq guard Tim one-on-one. Duncan has always been Shaq's little bitch, and I have no reason to believe this series will be any different.

Tim Duncan, in 25 playoff games against Shaquille O'Neal's teams:

25.8 ppg
12.9 rpg
48% FG (227-470)
73% FT (189-260)
4.1 apg
2.4 bpg

 

[phxrising]

you're right, I should have just left it to our coaches and a lot of our fans don't want it. And if you think our coaches or players wanted the Spurs in the first round, I'd say that's pretty unrealistic. They know the West is gonna be a war of attrition and the best way to get through that is to take on as few casualties (meaning games played) as possible during the early rounds so you're not exhausted by the time you play the "games that tell us about our team". Starting out with probably the second biggest favorite in the conference, on the road isn't good anyway you slice it, especially with a team as old as ours.

I agree with everything there Cheese .... except that the Spurs seem to handle the wear and tear better then the Suns. So I hoping that a "fresh" Steve and Company can beat the Spurs and use that momentum to carry them through. If they both went head to head in the WCF beat up I would give the Spurs the edge.

Also I’m hoping again that not having HCA puts more pressure on the Spurs and if we can win one of the first two games that the confidence level will be high with the team and they pull off the series victory.


Again just tring to look at what coould be positive about playing them this early.

 

[nowagimp]

Tim Duncan, in 25 playoff games against Shaquille O'Neal's teams:

25.8 ppg
12.9 rpg
48% FG (227-470)
73% FT (189-260)
4.1 apg
2.4 bpg

Obviously the poster seriously miss stated the matchup. But as a suns fan, I'll take the 48% Fg's, as TD has shredded the suns for 55%+ in recent years. Also having someone to punish the ganging up on amare will help on offense, and the presence of shaq in the middle changes the defensive emphasis on the perimeter. Now instead of letting guys shoot and hoping they miss the suns can close them out knowing there is a big guy back there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Obviously the poster seriously miss stated the matchup. But as a suns fan, I'll take the 48% Fg's, as TD has shredded the suns for 55%+ in recent years. Also having someone to punish the ganging up on amare will help on offense, and the presence of shaq in the middle changes the defensive emphasis on the perimeter. Now instead of letting guys shoot and hoping they miss the suns can close them out knowing there is a big guy back there.

well said. I'll take 25.8 and 48% over unstoppable force any day of the week. We were just a sieve in there with Amare, Shawn or Boris guarding Timmy and since DA was loathe to play KT (and we don't have him anymore anyway) that's exactly what you would have seen now.

 

[mojorizen7]

lol What are you talking about? There's lots of great members there.

There are a few.
Not "Chump Humper"

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with everything there Cheese .... except that the Spurs seem to handle the wear and tear better then the Suns. So I hoping that a "fresh" Steve and Company can beat the Spurs and use that momentum to carry them through. If they both went head to head in the WCF beat up I would give the Spurs the edge.

Also I’m hoping again that not having HCA puts more pressure on the Spurs and if we can win one of the first two games that the confidence level will be high with the team and they pull off the series victory.


Again just tring to look at what coould be positive about playing them this early.

i've got no beef with the above. it's just such a tough way to start the playoffs.

 

[phxrising]

Tim Duncan, in 25 playoff games against Shaquille O'Neal's teams:

25.8 ppg
12.9 rpg
48% FG (227-470)
73% FT (189-260)
4.1 apg
2.4 bpg

Whats O'neals numbers for those games?
also what were the end results of the games themselves?

 

[phxrising]

i've got no beef with the above. it's just such a tough way to start the playoffs.

Agreed

 

[hsandhu]

There was undoubtedly a span where the spurs where the lakers complete and total bitch. I know this because I despised the lakers and my favorite team was anybody playing the lakers in the playoffs (suns were really a non-factor during this time) so I had a vested interest in seeing the spurs do well against the lakers (and prior to playing the lakers as I always saw them as the only team that could beat them).

But here is a synopsis:

After the spurs whooped the lakers 4-0 in '99, shaq was under the most pressure he'd ever been under. I think he was swept out in 4 of the last 5 years and couldn't win the big one.

Lakers come back and win it all in 2000 but duncan doesn't play in the playoffs and they lose to the suns. So 2001 is built as the greatest WCF finals of all time, champion vs. champion. What happens?

The lakers pillage and dismantle the spurs in a 4-0 sweep when s.a. actually had home court. The spurs lost by 14, 7, 39, 29, with kobe arguably playing the best he had ever played.

Here is a reminder of the dominance, take a look at duncan's numbers in game s 3 and 4.
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2001/finals/west/?nav=SiteFragment

In 2002 lakers beat them 4-1 in the semis, but this wasn't a beat down like the year before, this was a toying. The spurs had chances to win both games 3-4 at home and just completing collapsed in the 4th qtr. They were good enough to win that series but were intimidated by the lakers.

I distinctly remember bill walton saying during game 4 the "spurs are shrinking before our eyes," as I was avidly rooting for the lakers to be beaten and it was so disheartening to see them just take the will of a team. The spurs, including duncan, were intimidated, bottomline.

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2002/west_round2_02.html

In 2003 the spurs were a flat out better team. They had an explosive bench led by the addition of manu, parker was growing up, and they beat down the aging lakers team (a team that started the season 11-19) in games 1 and 2.

But lakers won games 3 and 4 and then came the huge game 5. Again the spurs were clearly the better team at this point (I think they swept during the regular season) and they would only lose the series if they weren't mentally strong enough and still were intimidated by the lakers. And you know what, they came this close too completely choking away game 5.

They blew a 20 point lead to the lakers, who made a run with shaq on the bench and slave freakin medvedenko in the game. Duncan leaves horry on the last play up 2, and horry who was horrible in the playoffs has a 3 that is half way down and out. Again I was thrilled at this point because of my hate for the lakers but horry makes that shot spurs don't win the 2003 title. And they lose it to a inferior team (look at the box scores, it's shaq/kobe and trash) because they were intimidated.

Now in fairness the spurs went into l.a. and put the beat down in game 6 to win it, with duncan having a monster game. They were able to exorcise the demons temporarily but they had to be truly superior to the team talent wise/team wise, they werent mentally strong enough to beat them if they were both even.

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2003/round2_west1.html

In 2004 the lakers regrouped with the old guys malone and payton, but again the spurs beat them down in the first 2 games. The talent level was closer than '03, BUT still the spurs were probably the better team. But they went on to lose the next 4 games, including game 5 at home (yes fisher hit the miracle, but duncan hit a miracle first).

Look, I'm not a spurs hater at all (bruce bowen is a different story). I have great respect for their teams and more so the way they play the game. But spurs fans, the lakers clearly had a huge intimidation factor going vs. your teams for that 5 year span, don't you agree? I know because I was in you boat for those 5 years rooting big time for the spurs.

The weird thing about this spurs mini-dynasty is that they got to the top by being really really good then achieved the strong mentality (Which naturally comes with the confidence of winning many titles). Most teams go the other way around. Remember in '05 when they almost blew a series to a detroit team they were better than. In the pivotol game 5 duncan missed freethrows and a layup to win it and it was Horry that bailed them out (or sheed's horrific mistake).

The spurs are incredibly mentally strong now, but it came as a result of the damn superior teams they put on the floor.

 

[Mr Bottomtooth]

There are a few.
Not "Chump Humper"

What's your beef with Chump?

 

[mojorizen7]

What's your beef with Chump?

"I just hate 'em"

You must be registered for see images

 

[nowagimp]

There was undoubtedly a span where the spurs where the lakers complete and total bitch. I know this because I despised the lakers and my favorite team was anybody playing the lakers in the playoffs (suns were really a non-factor during this time) so I had a vested interest in seeing the spurs do well against the lakers (and prior to playing the lakers as I always saw them as the only team that could beat them).

But here is a synopsis:

After the spurs whooped the lakers 4-0 in '99, shaq was under the most pressure he'd ever been under. I think he was swept out in 4 of the last 5 years and couldn't win the big one.

Lakers come back and win it all in 2000 but duncan doesn't play in the playoffs and they lose to the suns. So 2001 is built as the greatest WCF finals of all time, champion vs. champion. What happens?

The lakers pillage and dismantle the spurs in a 4-0 sweep when s.a. actually had home court. The spurs lost by 14, 7, 39, 29, with kobe arguably playing the best he had ever played.

Here is a reminder of the dominance, take a look at duncan's numbers in game s 3 and 4.
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2001/finals/west/?nav=SiteFragment

In 2002 lakers beat them 4-1 in the semis, but this wasn't a beat down like the year before, this was a toying. The spurs had chances to win both games 3-4 at home and just completing collapsed in the 4th qtr. They were good enough to win that series but were intimidated by the lakers.

I distinctly remember bill walton saying during game 4 the "spurs are shrinking before our eyes," as I was avidly rooting for the lakers to be beaten and it was so disheartening to see them just take the will of a team. The spurs, including duncan, were intimidated, bottomline.

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2002/west_round2_02.html

In 2003 the spurs were a flat out better team. They had an explosive bench led by the addition of manu, parker was growing up, and they beat down the aging lakers team (a team that started the season 11-19) in games 1 and 2.

But lakers won games 3 and 4 and then came the huge game 5. Again the spurs were clearly the better team at this point (I think they swept during the regular season) and they would only lose the series if they weren't mentally strong enough and still were intimidated by the lakers. And you know what, they came this close too completely choking away game 5.

They blew a 20 point lead to the lakers, who made a run with shaq on the bench and slave freakin medvedenko in the game. Duncan leaves horry on the last play up 2, and horry who was horrible in the playoffs has a 3 that is half way down and out. Again I was thrilled at this point because of my hate for the lakers but horry makes that shot spurs don't win the 2003 title. And they lose it to a inferior team (look at the box scores, it's shaq/kobe and trash) because they were intimidated.

Now in fairness the spurs went into l.a. and put the beat down in game 6 to win it, with duncan having a monster game. They were able to exorcise the demons temporarily but they had to be truly superior to the team talent wise/team wise, they werent mentally strong enough to beat them if they were both even.

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2003/round2_west1.html

In 2004 the lakers regrouped with the old guys malone and payton, but again the spurs beat them down in the first 2 games. The talent level was closer than '03, BUT still the spurs were probably the better team. But they went on to lose the next 4 games, including game 5 at home (yes fisher hit the miracle, but duncan hit a miracle first).

Look, I'm not a spurs hater at all (bruce bowen is a different story). I have great respect for their teams and more so the way they play the game. But spurs fans, the lakers clearly had a huge intimidation factor going vs. your teams for that 5 year span, don't you agree? I know because I was in you boat for those 5 years rooting big time for the spurs.

The weird thing about this spurs mini-dynasty is that they got to the top by being really really good then achieved the strong mentality (Which naturally comes with the confidence of winning many titles). Most teams go the other way around. Remember in '05 when they almost blew a series to a detroit team they were better than. In the pivotol game 5 duncan missed freethrows and a layup to win it and it was Horry that bailed them out (or sheed's horrific mistake).

The spurs are incredibly mentally strong now, but it came as a result of the damn superior teams they put on the floor.

When david robinson played with the spurs he matched up with shaq, not TD. David started his slide in '01 and was just a shell by his last year '03(8ppg). So I dont how many of those games actually featured a shaq vs TD matchup, alot had shaq vs TD+david robinson. In 99 david was a superior defender, way better than duncan.

 

[Irish]

As a general rule, the Spurs have had bigs to play along side Duncan. He was very rarely the primary low post defender and could stay out of foul trouble. This is the first time TD will get the opportunity to play against either Shaq or Stat much of the game.

 

[OrangeStealth21]

Spurs fan are talking mad sh*t on their forums. Check it out nba.bravoforums.com. They are talking sweep! They are too old

 

[nowagimp]

Spurs fan are talking mad sh*t on their forums. Check it out nba.bravoforums.com. They are talking sweep! They are too old

Good for them, its their forum. But you know talk is cheap, and those guys wont be playing will they?

 

[Yuma]

uh, Yuma, don't take this the wrong way, but who cares about the Lakers since Shaq left? The conversation isn't about Lakers all time v. Spurs all time. It's pertaining to Shaq v. Duncan.

I forgot to quote the people who were complaining we were over looking the Lakers or not giving them props since we were saying this series may produce the NBA Champs.

I listened to ESPN radio on the way home tonight and the guy that was on said our series was the best series in all of the NBA in the first round!

 

[LV-Suns]

Spurs fan are talking mad sh*t on their forums. Check it out nba.bravoforums.com. They are talking sweep! They are too old

Advertising your crappy site?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I forgot to quote the people who were complaining we were over looking the Lakers or not giving them props since we were saying this series may produce the NBA Champs.

I listened to ESPN radio on the way home tonight and the guy that was on said our series was the best series in all of the NBA in the first round!

to your first sentence... gotcha.

to your second, this isn't the best matchup in all of the NBA in the first round. This is the best matchup in NBA history in the first round. I think you'd be hard pressed to find another matchup in the first round that a) has this kind of history and b) where the two teams with such history have even close to the aggregate records that our two teams have.

Great for the rest of the league, but sucks for us as far as I'm concerned. The playoffs are hard enough on my psyche. I don't need to be in WCF-mode from day one, which is what we're gonna be in.

 

[mojorizen7]

Remember the days of the cupcake first round best of 5 matchups?
Warriors,Grizzlies,T-Wolves,Clippers etc...