Okay, Now Can We Get Serious

[Renz]

Suggs would have been man-handled by Detroit's O-Line just like Pace was.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by nidan
I agree, he certainly knows more tha I but why do you keep[ bringing up Suggs Harry ?

If he were playing DE on a 4-3 D then maybe there could be a comparision as he isn't the discussion seems moot. Other than as a way to take shots at the Cardinals organization.

Because the majority of the fans, the media experts thought we should have taken Suggs with our pick. However, Graves tried to get tricky and traded the pick to get Pace.

Although I think having a running tab of how Pace and Suggs compare for the season it is really about Graves and his football knowledge.

If Suggs out performs Pace then Suggs is the better player or vice versa. However, I think it really shows more about Graves.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by ASUCHRIS
I'm assuming this is sarcasm.....

no - there was a discussion about this on another thread - it's just one game - we don't really know what we have here yet - remember the Steelers back in 1989 I think opened the season with back to back FORTY Point losses and still made the playoffs and knocked out Houston in the House of Pain and then was an Elway mriacle drive from going tothe AFC championship game. Now - that isn't to say don't get upset about this game because you should - but before anyone goes ranting and raving about firing people give the team 5 or 6 games to realy see what's going on - this is the team Graves built - I personally don't believe in it and everyone knows that but the season has started and now the proof will be in the pudding - let's see where it goes . . . but if we get blown out the next two games, I might change my mind.

I will say this - it's a good thing we continue to rush three guys on third and longs - that is something I will bag on - ridiculous.

EDIT: Actually - I don't agree with what I just wrote totally - if you want to rip after game one go ahead, it's better than saying how good you feel after this loss - no one should feel good after this except Anquan Boldin (and even he should feel like crap because his turnover started the freefall - but he's a stud no doubt and I can forgive that play because he's a rook)

 

[Harry]

Actually, I too thought Pace played pretty well. I don't think he was a bad selection. I just think Suggs was a better choice. Unfortunately I didn't have the ability to watch Suggs play, but I know the Ravens plan included using him as a down lineman in some obvious passing situations, so they must think he can rush from there. I don't intend to keep score all year. It's just that I caught a lot of flack about my warning not to be too impressed with the pre-season. Teams don't game plan for specific pass rushers in the preseason. Besides, you can't generate a rush with one player.

The point is simple. The Cards took an all or nothing approach to the free agent market and ended up with nothing when it comes to pass rushers. That strategy has failed in past years and so it was no surprise it failed this year. Had they created even decent pressure on the opposite side from Pace, this might not have happened.

The Cards gambled twice by passing on Suggs then signing no one. My point is they threw away the season when they did that. Put just a little more pressure on Harrington early and this was a winnable game.

As to the special teams, your criticism is well placed. Sadly, they look as bad as last year and they were terrible then. Is there any point in noting how many quality return guys changed teams and the Cards didn't make a try for any of them. Hank is done, but they didn't give him much to work with. Get the veteran backups, a few hungry undrafted free agents and add a two-way return guy and the special teams improve astronomically.

The part about the injuries to the offensive line is old news. These guys are a walking (when they can) emergency room. That is why long term contracts for Shelton or Clement are a wast of money. Even Smith bought into how good they were supposed to be. I have a feeling he knows the truth now. They look good on paper, but they don't protect the QB and don't open very many holes.

To me this game showed what I have believed all summer. The Cards got a few good players, but left too many holes. They overrated both lines and signed too few vets. Some of the coaching is weak, but mostly it's a lack of personnel when money was available. Graves has done little different from his predecessors. He says he wants to spend the money on long term deals. Too bad he has so few players worth giving them to. Next week against Seattle should remove all doubt. If you're going to the game forget your jerseys and wear helmets. You'll be needed.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I am not sure what the criticism on Pace is. He had 3 tackles 1 assist and a tackle for a loss. I thought he played fairly well. He Psuhed the tackle back into the QB and few times and made Harrington scramble a bit.

Was he great? No, but to bash him is increibly short-sighted. He will be fine and can still make an impact on the line.

What bothers me, and should bother you is the obviously lack of push up the middle. Bryant recorded exactly zero tackles today and was manhandled all day long!!

 

[Duckjake]

no - there was a discussion about this on another thread - it's just one game - we don't really know what we have here yet - remember the Steelers back in 1989 I think opened the season with back to back FORTY Point losses and still made the playoffs and knocked out Houston in the House of Pain and then was an Elway mriacle drive from going tothe AFC championship game.

In 1998 the Cards probably had the two worst back to back season opening losses in franchise history and look where that ended.

However I am amazed that, after 7 years of McGinnis' defenses, people are still surprised at poor play on that side of the ball.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Originally posted by Stan C
Why drop any comments?
The report form the Cardinal Brass was Wilkenson was too old (but young enough to be in our backfield half the day), and the same with Marco Coleman. We'll see how he does against Tampa Bay. He's right, the adminsitration has done little to nothing to improve our pass rush. Harrington had all day.

wilkenson was effective against chris dishman. thats not surprising because dishman sucks real real bad. I mean he is horrible!!

overall the oline did not play bad until about the fourth quarter, and then it seemed like blake was running for his life on every play. get big back in there and then we'll see. I'm reserving judgement for now.

The dline situation is a little more dire. Pace had a decent game, but he was single teamed all day and only got close to the qb a couple of times.

those who are saying harrington had all day to throw are correct. and that hurt us. but, I don't think that was the main reason lost. turnovers, game management and special teams are the reason we lost today.

but in defense of harry, I agree that something needs to be done. against a better team, even if we play better on special teams and cut out the turnovers, without a decent pass rush, we'll get killed.

 

[AzKarl]

Bell would have helped

Originally posted by jmr667
I have to agree about the stats not showing the whole story about Pace. He played an excellent game. Got close to the QB, chased down some running backs, etc.

But when he's the only guy to get pressure the QB just steps away. One man cannot do it all on DL. He needs some help from the middle or the other side.

I think if Marcus Bell had played we'd of had more pressure. He gets a lot of push that neither Davis or Bryant seems to get. With some push our ends can rush the QB. No push then no pass rush. Wilkinson and Rogers got push for Detroit hence they pressured Blake all game long.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by Stan C
Why drop any comments?
The report form the Cardinal Brass was Wilkenson was too old (but young enough to be in our backfield half the day), and the same with Marco Coleman. We'll see how he does against Tampa Bay. He's right, the adminsitration has done little to nothing to improve our pass rush. Harrington had all day.

When did the Cardinal brass say that Wilkenson was too old????