Okeafor, Hartwell, Gleason and Griffith visit today (Saturday)

[Cbus cardsfan]

But here is the thing, how much depth do you need, you cant carry 6 DE's on the roster.

Okeafer - King - Antonio Smith

Berry - Okeafer - Pace

Where does Zellner fit without cutting King or Antonio Smith?

I think King will be a swing player and provide depth at both DT and DE. Carrying 8-9 DL is not out of the question.

 

[vince56]

Peppi is limited to an average starter.

Yeah, but pace didn't beat him out all year. Pace started out in Green's doghouse, and ended the year entrenched in it. Remember Green's statement last year when we signed Berry? Something about it being disgraceful to have to sign a FA pass rusher when you drafted one in round 1 the year before.

How about Green's comments in Nov/Dec about Pace needing to get stronger before he can even compete in the NFL?

In a full season, Zellner started, Pace didn't. That was with good talent evaluators and good coaches around.

Pace is not a good player, and never should've been drafted where he was. I don't know why some of you guys are still on the honeymoon with him.

 

[spanky1]

What if Pace comes to camp at 275, is stronger and hasn't lost any speed. He will have demonstrated to Green that he listened loud and clear. My guess is if this happens, Green will have found a player that fits into his mold.

Whether you have thought about this or not it bears pointing out.......Berry is 30 and my guess is that he likely has three years of left.

No, I believe that Pace and King battle it out for the LDE spot in 05

 

[blillyl]

Pace could also be possible trade bait if Okeafor is signed (say maybe a 4th)

 

[ajcardfan]

But here is the thing, how much depth do you need, you cant carry 6 DE's on the roster.

Okeafer - King - Antonio Smith

Berry - Okeafer - Pace

Where does Zellner fit without cutting King or Antonio Smith?

Isn't Smith eligible for the practice squad for one more year? Whatever deal Zellner might sign, I'm sure it won't be prohibitive if came down to releasing him at the end of camp.

 

[spanky1]

Pace could also be possible trade bait if Okeafor is signed (say maybe a 4th)

If, and it's a very big if, we sign Okeafor, there is still room for Pace. King hasn't played but a few games since he was drafted two years ago, so "injury prone" is a label that is warranted for him. He hasn't shown us anything as of yet. Antonio Smith is a "project". Kyle Vanden Bosch is a UFA and isn't getting any nibbles, so that tells us a lot. Zellner is a serviceable backup at best.

Pace isn't going anywhere IMO......and certainly not for a 4th round pick.

 

[vince56]

Pace could also be possible trade bait if Okeafor is signed (say maybe a 4th)

I would think there would be absolutely no market for Pace. The only lineman on our roster that's even less tradeable than Pace is Bryant. Both are absolutely worthless in a trade. You offer Pace for a 4th, and you'll be laughed at and hung up on.... or someone will try to sell you a bridge somewhere.

 

[Snakester]

I would like to see the Cardinals bring in some decent free agents instead of all these second rate guys. We have no need for Hartwell or Okeafor. We have two players that are just as good or better in Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace. Where are the bigtime free agents. We have the money to get at least a couple of top guys and then a few of the regular free agents. We haven't brought in one top guy yet. It's one thing to spend wisely and then it's another to not spend at all.

 

[clif]

I would like to see the Cardinals bring in some decent free agents instead of all these second rate guys. We have no need for Hartwell or Okeafor. We have two players that are just as good or better in Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace. Where are the bigtime free agents. We have the money to get at least a couple of top guys and then a few of the regular free agents. We haven't brought in one top guy yet. It's one thing to spend wisely and then it's another to not spend at all.

what do you mean no need for them? hartwell is an immediate upgrade in the run defense a t MLB! I like hayes, but you have to get as many playmakers as you can. Okeafor would be an immediate upgrade over zellner and that would allow pace to continue to come in as a pass rush end.

 

[joeshmo]

We have no need for Hartwell or Okeafor. We have two players that are just as good or better in Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace.

You are joking right.

Especially comparing Pace to Okeafer.

We are the 27 th ranked run D, and HArtwell is a run stuffing Beast far better then Hayes who is nothing but potential as for right now, and how the heck could Hayes not beat out McKinnon for the top job when our Run D was struggling all year long.

 

[Shane]

You are joking right.

Especially comparing Pace to Okeafer.

We are the 27 th ranked run D, and HArtwell is a run stuffing Beast far better then Hayes who is nothing but potential as for right now, and how the heck could Hayes not beat out McKinnon for the top job when our Run D was struggling all year long.

Green makes some puzzling decisions. Like demoting Shipp. Granted he was hurt but had he not been and started all the games Emmitt did is there any doubt he would have had 1200+ yards? I hardly think so.

Like benching our best OL in Shelton etc.....

Hayes has shown at times to be a monster. At some point in time you have to take advantage of the horses you have in the stable. Im all for giving Hayes the starting MLB spot. He certainly could do no worse than Ronnie Mac and IMO would be a big upgrade.

I agree with you on Okeafor(for now) I think Pace may just come on this year.

 

[Evil Ash]

You are joking right.

Especially comparing Pace to Okeafer.

We are the 27 th ranked run D, and HArtwell is a run stuffing Beast far better then Hayes who is nothing but potential as for right now, and how the heck could Hayes not beat out McKinnon for the top job when our Run D was struggling all year long.

The reason Hayes possibly couldn't beat out McKinnon for the starting job may have something to do with Ronnie Mac's leadership. Even though he lost a step or two as a player, Mac was still one of the leaders (if not the leader) of our defensive squad. Eventually Berry took over the leadership of the squad and Mac got lost in the dust.

There was an improvement with Hayes playing but still if given the opportunity I would add Hartwell. A Dansby, Hartwell, Hayes/Darling LB core
could be one of the best in the league!

 

[joeshmo]

The reason Hayes possibly couldn't beat out McKinnon for the starting job may have something to do with Ronnie Mac's leadership. Even though he lost a step or two as a player, Mac was still one of the leaders (if not the leader) of our defensive squad. Eventually Berry took over the leadership of the squad and Mac got lost in the dust.

There was an improvement with Hayes playing but still if given the opportunity I would add Hartwell. A Dansby, Hartwell, Hayes/Darling LB core
could be one of the best LB corps in the league!

Berry took over the leadership spot from day 1. And for all of McKinnons leadership we were still a 27th ranked D.

Hayes is not a run stuffing MLB our run D didnt get any better when Hayes was starting. Hayes started one game and one game only last year, that was agianst Seattle when we got torched for 175 rushing. Yah real improvement when he was playing full time. It wasnt all Hayes fault but as a MLB he was a big part of it. Watch the game again if you can and Hayes did not play well against the run at all playing MLB.

Hartwell is a MLB stud, Hayes is nothing but potential every one thinks will be good, If you want Hayes still starting then put him on the outside, where I think he belongs in the first place, he works better in space.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Berry took over the leadership spot from day 1. And for all of McKinnons leadership we were still a 27th ranked D.

Hayes is not a run stuffing MLB our run D didnt get any better when Hayes was starting. Hayes started one game and one game only last year, that was agianst Seattle when we got torched for 175 rushing. Yah real improvement when he was playing full time. It wasnt all Hayes fault but as a MLB he was a big part of it. Watch the game again if you can and Hayes did not play well against the run at all playing MLB.

Hartwell is a MLB stud, Hayes is nothing but potential every one thinks will be good, If you want Hayes still starting then put him on the outside, where I think he belongs in the first place, he works better in space.

to be precise: "Hartwell is a MLB stud", in a 3-4 alignment.

Will he be in a 4-3.... ?????

 

[KingofCards]

We have no need for Hartwell or Okeafor. We have two players that are just as good or better in Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace. Where are the bigtime free agents.

 

[vince56]

to be precise: "Hartwell is a MLB stud", in a 3-4 alignment.

Will he be in a 4-3.... ?????

With two big DTs in front of him keeping guards off him, yeah. 3-4 is much harder for a linebacker in run support than a 4-3. In a 3-4, the OGs have a clear path to the ILBs, so your ILBs need to be able to shed blocks much faster and more efficiently.

 

[joeshmo]

With two big DTs in front of him keeping guards off him, yeah. 3-4 is much harder for a linebacker in run support than a 4-3. In a 3-4, the OGs have a clear path to the ILBs, so your ILBs need to be able to shed blocks much faster and more efficiently.

Good answer!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

With two big DTs in front of him keeping guards off him, yeah. 3-4 is much harder for a linebacker in run support than a 4-3. In a 3-4, the OGs have a clear path to the ILBs, so your ILBs need to be able to shed blocks much faster and more efficiently.

Yeah...well, I suggest that, "with two big DTs in front of him keeping guards off", (fill in a name) would be just fine, and (fill in a name) would be an all-Pro.

 

[vince56]

Yeah...well, I suggest that, "with two big DTs in front of him keeping guards off", (fill in a name) would be just fine, and (fill in a name) would be an all-Pro.

Hayes ; Hartwell


There's your fill in the blanks


Edit: eh?

 

[john h]

Hope Okefor and Hartwell don't leave. I just doubt we will sign Hartwell though, he will want the big bucks.

I think the signing of Warner gives us a much better shot at signing a lot of these other FA. They will take notice of this!!!!

 

[Evil Ash]

I think the signing of Warner gives us a much better shot at signing a lot of these other FA. They will take notice of this!!!!

John I like you man but you way, way overestimate the impact the signing of Warner. Defensive players don't really care who their QB is

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

We have no need for Hartwell or Okeafor. We have two players that are just as good or better in Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace.

Tell me you're not serious. Pace was passed on the depth chart by a rookie 5th round draft pick midway through the season and was unable to beat out Kyle Vanden Bosch and Peppi Zellner for starting LDE spot. And Gerald Hayes was stuck behind an aging Ronnie Mac, who not surprisingly has goten almost no interest as a free agent. Okeafor and Hartwell may not be stars, but they are proven NFL players at their respective positions, which is much more than I can say about Hayes and Pace.

 

[Cheesebeef]

John I like you man but you way, way overestimate the impact the signing of Warner. Defensive players don't really care who their QB is

gotta agree - I'm glad John's off his "I ate pee'd in corn flakes this morning" mode - but Warner as of right now is a reclamation project that I don't think anyone but us would really be all that excited about.

 

[arthurracoon]

but Warner as of right now is a reclamation project that I don't think anyone but us would really be all that excited about.

I dont know. Lots of players go off of player/coach past reputation.

For example: I saw Joe Horn (I think) breaking down the playoffs, and he commented on how good a coach Mike Martz and how good the Rams were. When the host told Horn that Martz might be on the hot seat Horn scoffed and stated that Martz is a genius.

Now anyone knows that Martz is a moron.


Of course this is just one incident, and many might clam that Martz is in fact a genius. Furthermore, I am just playing devil's advocate with this post.

 

[john h]

gotta agree - I'm glad John's off his "I ate pee'd in corn flakes this morning" mode - but Warner as of right now is a reclamation project that I don't think anyone but us would really be all that excited about.

Hey guys please do not rain on my parade. I have been marching in a rainy parade since the late 40's. I do not get hyped up very often but I am with this signing for as I say the QB is the biggest difference maker on any team. Warner may fail. He may take us to the playoffs. Now it is my turn to say be positive guys. I am just another rabid fan with no special insight other than that with which age has provided me. I respect everyones opinion and it is fun and interesting to see the different takes we all have. I never think anyones opinion is crazy. It is just their opinion. I think it has been 1983 since we had a winning season. We need one and I think next year will be one. I have not said that in many years so right or wrong I think we turned a corner this off season. We will sign a decent RB. We will sign a DB either in the draft or fA and DG will add to the DL/OL. Perhaps you think I have become senile. Maybe so, but at least it is for once on the senile positive side of life. You do not have to look at my glass half empty post anymore this season.