On the offseason

[Russ Smith]

It's like this, Kliff could be a great OC with a head coach looking over his shoulder to rein him back to reality when he goes off. Yeah, in a perfect world I would keep Kliff's salary as is to appease him and let him be the OC but bring in a guy like Caldwell to anchor the team and provide leadership and better game management... then Kliff could still develop Murray but then you have an authority over him who could then be the 'bad guy' and put Kyler in his place too

The problem is we had to make Kliff the HC to get him in the first place. I seriously doubt he'll accept a demotion. And I'm not sure he's the guy for Kyler anyways. I do think his offense has improved but we need someone to coach Kyler and so far either he's uncoachable or Kliff isn't that guy. Kyler HAS improved but I feel like he's not going to get much better if it's just up to Kliff, he needs someone else. Jordan Palmers name has come up before he's a pro QB coach, carson's brother etc they have to do something to get Kyler to that next level or at least find out if he CAN get there.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Yeah...if you think a "tough guy" HC is going to get Kyler to buy in, you aren't paying attention. That isn't to say that Kliff is the answer, but Kyler has to decide he wants to be coached hard before you can coach him hard.

The only other name that kinda makes sense is Doug Pederson but I doubt he would sign up unless Keim was gone.

Then let Kyler fail with a real NFL head coach and real NFL offense. Continuing on with a college coach and college offense is clearly not going to work.

This reminds me of the Ayton conversations. People thought he was too mentally weak to play with a guy like CP3 who demands hard work and excellence. You can't just shy away from making a change because you think the player might not take to it. You make the change and he can adapt or he can flame out. Otherwise we will have more failing seasons and a bunch of "what if he ever had a real coach" questions with Kyler.

 

[FB94]

I have more questions today than a month ago. It’s very apparent that we just are not tough/mean enough in the trenches on both sides. KK cannot evolve late in the year to counter what the opposition is trying to take away. KM needs to have a tough love approach going forward. The coddled approach has to go. What would Bill Parcells say to him. Finally I’m done with the VJ experience. Get rid of him and the LB coach and bring in someone who can get the most out of our young LBs. Lots of dead wood to cull in the off season.

 

[Stout]

It's like this, Kliff could be a great OC with a head coach looking over his shoulder to rein him back to reality when he goes off. Yeah, in a perfect world I would keep Kliff's salary as is to appease him and let him be the OC but bring in a guy like Caldwell to anchor the team and provide leadership and better game management... then Kliff could still develop Murray but then you have an authority over him who could then be the 'bad guy' and put Kyler in his place too

I don't want KK trying to develop KM because he's shown zilch in that department thus far.

 

[Broseph]

I'd take the best OL or DL with our pick, our depth in the trenches is pathetic, both lines got bullied many times this season.

 

[Luciano]

I fear we cut Cliff and SK stays and gets to pick another Head Coach…

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't want KK trying to develop KM because he's shown zilch in that department thus far.

I account that blame 60/40 with the advantage to Kyler. Honestly, between his arrogance, his shrinking in the spotlight, and his lack of care for his teammates (if true), I am just hoping he flames out so hard he is out of the league before we give him an extension.

 

[Russ Smith]

I account that blame 60/40 with the advantage to Kyler. Honestly, between his arrogance, his shrinking in the spotlight, and his lack of care for his teammates, I am just hoping he flames out so hard he is out of the league before we give him an extension.

how would that even remotely help the Cards? Unless his flameout was so bad we got the first pick and got a QB in say the Bryce Young draft?
IMO the best scenario is we get a coach who can get Kyler to improve because he still has considerable talent, he just has major flaws that need to be fixed. Now if they're not fixable that's another thing but I'm not sure we can actually tell given we don't know how much Kliff has actually done. For example last night at halftime they said keim and Kliff both said Kyler had been in the facility more this week preparing for the game than any week in his career, and they weren't saying he's usually not here just saying he REALLY worked hard this week to prepare. And then crapped the bed, so maybe it's not just preparation?

Our best case scenario is Kyler improves over he flames out and we hope we can draft a better QB

 

[FB94]

Yeah...if you think a "tough guy" HC is going to get Kyler to buy in, you aren't paying attention. That isn't to say that Kliff is the answer, but Kyler has to decide he wants to be coached hard before you can coach him hard.

The only other name that kinda makes sense is Doug Pederson but I doubt he would sign up unless Keim was gone.

To me Kyler needs a tough love coach going forward. I don’t think he’s ever had one, and it shows. The only way to find out how he reacts is to do it, and if he whines about it he should go play baseball. Be a man Kyler.

 

[Chopper0080]

how would that even remotely help the Cards? Unless his flameout was so bad we got the first pick and got a QB in say the Bryce Young draft?
IMO the best scenario is we get a coach who can get Kyler to improve because he still has considerable talent, he just has major flaws that need to be fixed. Now if they're not fixable that's another thing but I'm not sure we can actually tell given we don't know how much Kliff has actually done. For example last night at halftime they said keim and Kliff both said Kyler had been in the facility more this week preparing for the game than any week in his career, and they weren't saying he's usually not here just saying he REALLY worked hard this week to prepare. And then crapped the bed, so maybe it's not just preparation?

Our best case scenario is Kyler improves over he flames out and we hope we can draft a better QB

A couple points here.

1 - QBs who play scared rarely can change their mentality. Kyler does not want to get hit and makes negative plays to avoid doing so. I don't see anyone being able to turn his mind around from that.

2 - Kyler does not seem self aware. He does not seem to recognize his faults and flaws much less begin to know how to fix them. He believes he is a champion and winner despite not being being either since High School. Essentially he has the mindset that if he loses it is because of someone or something else and not him.

3 - Kyler does not seem to be inspired to 100% dedicate himself to football. Him still talking about playing baseball kinda highlights that along with his special powers which mean that he doesn't need extra film work.

4 - Kyler is small and already struggles to stay physically healthy.

All of these are a recipe for someone who is going to set back a franchise 5 years because he will be just enough of a tease to get a huge deal and new HC only to continue to maintain these four truths. He is kinda taking the RGIII career path and giving him a huge deal will just make moving on from him harder and more impactful.

REALITY: We won't give him a new deal this offseason. We will pick up his 5th year option. I would not be shocked if he did not show for voluntary workouts if that is the case. The best case scenario is that we will be smart enough to plan to franchise tag him after that if he continues on his current path.

 

[Russ Smith]

A couple points here.

1 - QBs who play scared rarely can change their mentality. Kyler does not want to get hit and makes negative plays to avoid doing so. I don't see anyone being able to turn his mind around from that.

2 - Kyler does not seem self aware. He does not seem to recognize his faults and flaws much less begin to know how to fix them. He believes he is a champion and winner despite not being being either since High School. Essentially he has the mindset that if he loses it is because of someone or something else and not him.

3 - Kyler does not seem to be inspired to 100% dedicate himself to football. Him still talking about playing baseball kinda highlights that along with his special powers which mean that he doesn't need extra film work.

4 - Kyler is small and already struggles to stay physically healthy.

All of these are a recipe for someone who is going to set back a franchise 5 years because he will be just enough of a tease to get a huge deal and new HC only to continue to maintain these four truths. He is kinda taking the RGIII career path and giving him a huge deal will just make moving on from him harder and more impactful.

REALITY: We won't give him a new deal this offseason. We will pick up his 5th year option. I would not be shocked if he did not show for voluntary workouts if that is the case. The best case scenario is that we will be smart enough to plan to franchise tag him after that if he continues on his current path.

He was definitely awful last night but RG3? He had one good season, got progressively worse every year after that. Kyler has had 3 good years, gotten better every year. The concern of course is the performance in key games and yes that he appeared to be playing scared last night when we really needed him to step up.

After RG3's first season he put up 23 TD's and 23 picks the rest of his career, Murray isn't even remotely comparable to him yet.

now if he picks up next year where he left off this year then yeah that would be very bad.

The reality is we have the 23rd pick in the draft so we're probably not getting a QB with that pick and would frankly be crazy to use a late first rounder on one this draft is a total crapshoot at QB there's no lock at all so we'd almost have to trade Kyler to get a QB this year. I guess that's why Prescott and Watson make the most sense since they're Texas teams and both would have reasons to want to trade their guy. If Watson had a totally clean background yeah you'd at this point probably jump all over it but he doesn't, we still have no clue what's going to happen to him

 

[Jetstream Green]

I'd take the best OL or DL with our pick, our depth in the trenches is pathetic, both lines got bullied many times this season.

I'll take that for our first four picks

 

[DVontel]

Kind of crazy how un-athletic this defense is.

Literally everybody on the front 4 is either limited or just old.

Hicks is pretty much both. Simmons athleticism is more linear than anything.

Byron is limited. Marco has athleticism, but he is so damn raw.

 

[Arz101]

I have no idea why Keim is still the GM..amazed every living hour at this.

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[Jetstream Green]

The problem is we had to make Kliff the HC to get him in the first place. I seriously doubt he'll accept a demotion. And I'm not sure he's the guy for Kyler anyways. I do think his offense has improved but we need someone to coach Kyler and so far either he's uncoachable or Kliff isn't that guy. Kyler HAS improved but I feel like he's not going to get much better if it's just up to Kliff, he needs someone else. Jordan Palmers name has come up before he's a pro QB coach, carson's brother etc they have to do something to get Kyler to that next level or at least find out if he CAN get there.

I know Ryan Lindley does that but I do not want him anywhere close to the building again lol

 

[PJ1]

Kind of crazy how un-athletic this defense is.

Literally everybody on the front 4 is either limited or just old.

Hicks is pretty much both. Simmons athleticism is more linear than anything.

Byron is limited. Marco has athleticism, but he is so damn raw.

I believe it is the lack of physicality more than athleticism. Our safeties play physical, but the rest of the D gets knocked around. Our DL continually gets blown off the ball and many times are on the ground as the RB goes by.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I have no idea why Keim is still the GM..amazed every living hour at this.

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This is how I feel about it too. Complete failure from everyone involved.

 

[Russ Smith]

I have no idea why Keim is still the GM..amazed every living hour at this.

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It's funny but I happened to see her earlier in the year talking about exactly that I think it was after the Packers game IIRC. Her comment was exactly that, in a game where the other team had a bunch of starters missing it was alarming how there wasn't a clear talent advantage on the field for the Cards. In fact I know it was the Packers because she commented about how after Hopkins got hurt there was literally nobody on the field for us that could consistently win their matchup it was largely up to Kliff to scheme them open or for them to get open in a scramble drill when Kyler started running.

She pointed out Rodgers had very little talent on the field at WR in the game but he's so good he just got rid of the ball quickly and had a great run game to back him up.

Same with TB, they have lost so much talent at WR and RB but Brady is just so experienced and so good he just keeps beating teams no matter who they put out there.

FYI I sure hope the Bucs beat the Rams, I got so sick of watching Donald cheapshot guys last night and now it comes out that donald apparently punched our LG and that's what started that whole thing where he ripped of Humps helmet and tried to choke him. If you watch the play you can see Hump smiling and trying to calm people down. Apparently Donald was mad at Pugh from a prior play and he basically punched him in the stomach while rushing on that play, Pugh retaliated they squared off and then when Hump and others tried to break it up Donald objected and went after Hump. I would love to see them spend all that money and draft picks and still not even get to the NFC title game. They have some real talent yes but I really hope they lose

 

[kerouac9]

The reality is we have the 23rd pick in the draft so we're probably not getting a QB with that pick and would frankly be crazy to use a late first rounder on one this draft is a total crapshoot at QB there's no lock at all so we'd almost have to trade Kyler to get a QB this year. I guess that's why Prescott and Watson make the most sense since they're Texas teams and both would have reasons to want to trade their guy. If Watson had a totally clean background yeah you'd at this point probably jump all over it but he doesn't, we still have no clue what's going to happen to him

The reality is that we're stuck in our current situation offensively for another year. We're not making a QB change the year after Kyler makes the Pro Bowl, and we're not making a HC change the year after Kliff leads the team to its third-highest win total in 45 years.

Next year is about gathering information. We could return all five starting offensive linemen if we want to.

 

[Russ Smith]

One of the things that amazes me on the run defense, we played 7 games this year against the Rams, the 49ers and Seattle. all of them run that misdirection eye candy stuff on run plays. If you paid attention in the Dallas and 49ers game they kept saying the D coordinators for Dallas telling their players don't be fooled by the eye candy don't get distracted find the ball. Dallas couldn't do it either. But we played 7 games this year where that's a big part of the run game for the team, and we play them all 3 times a year. How many years of that does a Vance Joseph coached team need to see before he and the players start to figure it out?

In the first quarter I was screaming mad at the screen watching the DL get fooled in the motion and the RB cut it back, or us having the RB seemingly bottled up and he just slows down waits for a block and then surges forward for 7 yards. And again Simmons inability to play the run last night was shocking, it's really not a surprise they eventually pulled him for Vallejo he just could not do anything against the run just overran everything.

I actually deleted my recording of the game this morning I was watching the first quarter and just couldn't handle it anymore we were SO bad it was unbelievable

That first TE screen where Daniels found the only tackler in the area and ran right into him unreal

 

[PJ1]

It's funny but I happened to see her earlier in the year talking about exactly that I think it was after the Packers game IIRC. Her comment was exactly that, in a game where the other team had a bunch of starters missing it was alarming how there wasn't a clear talent advantage on the field for the Cards. In fact I know it was the Packers because she commented about how after Hopkins got hurt there was literally nobody on the field for us that could consistently win their matchup it was largely up to Kliff to scheme them open or for them to get open in a scramble drill when Kyler started running.

She pointed out Rodgers had very little talent on the field at WR in the game but he's so good he just got rid of the ball quickly and had a great run game to back him up.

Same with TB, they have lost so much talent at WR and RB but Brady is just so experienced and so good he just keeps beating teams no matter who they put out there.

FYI I sure hope the Bucs beat the Rams, I got so sick of watching Donald cheapshot guys last night and now it comes out that donald apparently punched our LG and that's what started that whole thing where he ripped of Humps helmet and tried to choke him. If you watch the play you can see Hump smiling and trying to calm people down. Apparently Donald was mad at Pugh from a prior play and he basically punched him in the stomach while rushing on that play, Pugh retaliated they squared off and then when Hump and others tried to break it up Donald objected and went after Hump. I would love to see them spend all that money and draft picks and still not even get to the NFC title game. They have some real talent yes but I really hope they lose

As I watched Donald being the jackass he is I couldn't help but long for Dobler, Banks Dierdorf and Young. Would have been a different type of battle.

 

[Russ Smith]

The reality is that we're stuck in our current situation offensively for another year. We're not making a QB change the year after Kyler makes the Pro Bowl, and we're not making a HC change the year after Kliff leads the team to its third-highest win total in 45 years.

Next year is about gathering information. We could return all five starting offensive linemen if we want to.

I really want another good Wr but I have to say right now I think the smart move is pick the best interior lineman you can find Offense or defense, or a CB. Because whatever we do at coach this year and beyond, a good interior player or a CB is going to be of value to that coach. If you draft a skill position guy you may pick someone and then a year from now new coach wants something totally different.

And I completely omitted RB I'm assuming we'll retain at least one of Chase or Conner but I would be surprised if it's both.

Conner gave it his all you could see on that pick where Kyler made such a bad throw to him he was thinking I'm playing in pain for this?

 

[PJ1]

One of the things that amazes me on the run defense, we played 7 games this year against the Rams, the 49ers and Seattle. all of them run that misdirection eye candy stuff on run plays. If you paid attention in the Dallas and 49ers game they kept saying the D coordinators for Dallas telling their players don't be fooled by the eye candy don't get distracted find the ball. Dallas couldn't do it either. But we played 7 games this year where that's a big part of the run game for the team, and we play them all 3 times a year. How many years of that does a Vance Joseph coached team need to see before he and the players start to figure it out?

In the first quarter I was screaming mad at the screen watching the DL get fooled in the motion and the RB cut it back, or us having the RB seemingly bottled up and he just slows down waits for a block and then surges forward for 7 yards. And again Simmons inability to play the run last night was shocking, it's really not a surprise they eventually pulled him for Vallejo he just could not do anything against the run just overran everything.

I actually deleted my recording of the game this morning I was watching the first quarter and just couldn't handle it anymore we were SO bad it was unbelievable

That first TE screen where Daniels found the only tackler in the area and ran right into him unreal

I yelled nice play on the screen to Daniels until this guy just stopped it himself. He had all sorts of room.

 

[Arz101]

What the "top 5 GM" achieved in 9 years @cardsfanmd

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[Russ Smith]

It's funny but I happened to see her earlier in the year talking about exactly that I think it was after the Packers game IIRC. Her comment was exactly that, in a game where the other team had a bunch of starters missing it was alarming how there wasn't a clear talent advantage on the field for the Cards. In fact I know it was the Packers because she commented about how after Hopkins got hurt there was literally nobody on the field for us that could consistently win their matchup it was largely up to Kliff to scheme them open or for them to get open in a scramble drill when Kyler started running.

She pointed out Rodgers had very little talent on the field at WR in the game but he's so good he just got rid of the ball quickly and had a great run game to back him up.

Same with TB, they have lost so much talent at WR and RB but Brady is just so experienced and so good he just keeps beating teams no matter who they put out there.

FYI I sure hope the Bucs beat the Rams, I got so sick of watching Donald cheapshot guys last night and now it comes out that donald apparently punched our LG and that's what started that whole thing where he ripped of Humps helmet and tried to choke him. If you watch the play you can see Hump smiling and trying to calm people down. Apparently Donald was mad at Pugh from a prior play and he basically punched him in the stomach while rushing on that play, Pugh retaliated they squared off and then when Hump and others tried to break it up Donald objected and went after Hump. I would love to see them spend all that money and draft picks and still not even get to the NFC title game. They have some real talent yes but I really hope they lose

Sorry I confused that he allegedly punched Hump, then Pugh came in when they were scuffling and he ripped of Humps helmet, then tried to choke him and then hit him backhanded and even raked his face. It was pretty surprising Donald didn't get 2 penalties there or even get tossed. But Pugh was apparently the peacemaker not Hump