One of the only Kolb fans left
- Thread starter desertdawg
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Doc Cardinal
Old Fart
+1.
OP
OP
I have a Kolb jersey and have been rooting for him since before he got here.
Not sure where your coming from exactly, I've never seen this (dark) side of you amigo, I am crushed. All I had to look forward to in life was your internet friendship, now all is lost. 
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I disagree, Ive never seen a quarterback do that as much as Kolb.
Im not being dramatic or exagerrating. If someone took the time to breakdown tape, Im sure itd show he abandons the pocket probably 60%+ of the time. Thats gargantuan.
Rookies, guys in new systems, and dudes who just straight up suck, dont flee the pocket as much as Kolb.
RugbyMuffin
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If Kolb shows he can win games then I have no problem with him as the QB.
Sent from Rugbymuffin's Super Phone
Sent from Rugbymuffin's Super Phone
I'm lukemeh on both guys right now. They both have a LOT to show.
Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
I support Kolb and feel he is the better option. I do not see how Skelton can improve on his accuracy enough to ever be a solid starter, but if he can and he becomes the starter...I'm totally cool with that. I like both guys. They are tough and competitors, I just think Kolb is more accurate. Kolb lacks Skelton's pocket awareness obviously but that is the problem...we cannot combine their strengths. I will take accuracy over the other trait. Seeing Skelton play gave me bad flashbacks of Plummer digging us a hole and having to comeback to win ...but I would take Jake the Snake over any of these guys at the moment lol
...but I would take Jake the Snake over any of these guys at the moment lol
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Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
I support Kolb and feel he is the better option. I do not see how Skelton can improve on his accuracy enough to ever be a solid starter, but if he can and he becomes the starter...I'm totally cool with that. I like both guys. They are tough and competitors, I just think Kolb is more accurate. Kolb lacks Skelton's pocket awareness obviously but that is the problem...we cannot combine their strengths. I will take accuracy over the other trait. Seeing Skelton play gave me bad flashbacks of Plummer digging us a hole and having to comeback to win
I don't know how any informed poster could ever type this with a straight face. Really? You don't see how a fifth-round QB from Fordham who has had next to NO developmental coaching can improve greatly on his accuracy? Perhaps footwork has something to do with it, and my goodness, it just isn't possible that a kid from Fordham would lack the coaching to fix that, huh?
Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
wow. asshat? really?
I could be wrong, but I think dd has been pimping KK for a while now man. You need to take it down about three notches and apologize.
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Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
Stout, you know I have great respect for you man, but the whole "he's never had any big time coaching" shtick is starting to wear a little thin.
Before Skelton took the reins last year, he had spent one and one-half years as part of a professional football organization, INCLUDING time spent during his first year as the full time starter (after Anderson and Hall flamed out). But your first premise is that he was basically ignored by the coaching staff. Are you sure about that? Because I think that's definitely debatable.
The other main premise of your argument is that a kid from the patriot league did not get coached up like a kid from OU or Michigan (John Navare says "hi" by the way). Your premise assumes the the coaching staff, and more specifically Fordham's QB coach and offensive coordinator suck at their job. Again, are you sure about that? Because apparently they were good enough to get the kid on radar of pro teams so that he was drafted in the fifth round. Do you even know who Fordham's QB coach is?
Anytime anybody says someone is a "project", that's a red flag to me. I'm not saying that there isn't some validity to what you're saying, but the guy has presumably been playing football (and been a QB) most of his life, and he played pretty poorly last year.
Is the quality of coaching that Skelton has received through high school, through four productive years in college, and during eighteen months as a pro, unequivocally to blame for that?
I would submit to you sir, that its just as possible that Skelton played poorly in spite of the coaching that he received.
Still want him on the team though. If he can cut down on the mistakes, I think he'll be a good back up. They type of guy that can come off the bench and win a game for you. And, he'll have a lucrative career if can achieve this Stout, so don't feel too sorry for him!
The NFL coaches will tell you the kids from the real small schools are behind the kids from the big schools when they get to the NFL. And it's not just coaching it's also playing against inferior competition and not having access to state of the art training equipment as well. There IS a huge gap between even Conference USA and the Patriot League.
It is also common knowledge that the more reps a QB has with his receivers and first team offense the better he will play with them. Skelton was THIRD string his rookie season. He probably spent more time running other teams plays on the scout team than the Cardinals.
Oh and by the way, Double Duece's HC at Fordham was a former Defensive Coordinator and the QB coach got fired last season.
Meanwhile Kolb played for Art Briles one of the best offensive minds in the country.
A little bit of trivia: Briles once coached at Stephenville HS where Kevin Kolb played HS ball and which is home to Tarelton State where Richard Bartel played his last two years of college football. Briles won 4 state championships at Stephenville.
Skelator's opponents at Fordham his Senior year included: Rhode Island, Columbia, Colgate, Bryant, Old Dominion, Holy Cross and Lehigh. Tough schedule...if you are playing women's field hockey.
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I'll never get why fandom seems to break into so many camps. I'm a fan of anyone that can help the team. That makes me a fan of Kolb and Skelton. Either one of those guys lays an egg I'll be screaming for them to hit the bench, ASAP. Go Kolb! Please don't suck but if you do, get the hell out of the way.
SeattleCard
Back in Arizona!!!
I'm 100 percent pulling for Kolb and think he will turn it around this year.
Because that is what fans do. The only thing all the fans have in common is that they want their team to win. Opinions on Who is the best player, coach, GM, owner, to help the team win vary widely and that is what sparks the debates which in turn are a key ingredient in making following sports fun. Just like fantasy leagues or tailgating or razzing fans of the other teams.
That is why we have debates on here about our players, our front office, our coaches and who to draft or what free agents to bring in. It's not just Kolb or Double Deuce. Although QB is the position most in the spotlight and so gets the most attention.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Stout, you know I have great respect for you man, but the whole "he's never had any big time coaching" shtick is starting to wear a little thin.
Before Skelton took the reins last year, he had spent one and one-half years as part of a professional football organization, INCLUDING time spent during his first year as the full time starter (after Anderson and Hall flamed out). But your first premise is that he was basically ignored by the coaching staff. Are you sure about that? Because I think that's definitely debatable.
The other main premise of your argument is that a kid from the patriot league did not get coached up like a kid from OU or Michigan (John Navare says "hi" by the way). Your premise assumes the the coaching staff, and more specifically Fordham's QB coach and offensive coordinator suck at their job. Again, are you sure about that? Because apparently they were good enough to get the kid on radar of pro teams so that he was drafted in the fifth round. Do you even know who Fordham's QB coach is?
Anytime anybody says someone is a "project", that's a red flag to me. I'm not saying that there isn't some validity to what you're saying, but the guy has presumably been playing football (and been a QB) most of his life, and he played pretty poorly last year.
Is the quality of coaching that Skelton has received through high school, through four productive years in college, and during eighteen months as a pro, unequivocally to blame for that?
I would submit to you sir, that its just as possible that Skelton played poorly in spite of the coaching that he received.
Still want him on the team though. If he can cut down on the mistakes, I think he'll be a good back up. They type of guy that can come off the bench and win a game for you. And, he'll have a lucrative career if can achieve this Stout, so don't feel too sorry for him!
Duck did a pretty good job of answering a lot of what you asked of me, and saved me time in doing it. Go Duck!
Anyway, like he said, Skelton was 3rd string in his rookie offseason and camp, meaning he got maybe...MAYBE...a sniff of developmental coaching, at most. Once he was thrust into the starting lineup, he got even less. Why? Every second of his time was focused on getting ready for the next game. No time to take the hours and hours needed to learn new mechanics by rote. So, he basically had no time in his rookie season.
In his second season, there was no offseason. Once he got to a hugely shortened camp, who do you think got all the reps and coaching? Kolb, the guy they had traded for. He certainly got more work in than he had at the last camp, simply because he was no longer 3rd string. Still, he couldn't have had much. Ditto once the season started.
Now, he will definitely have plenty of time and coaching to develop this season. If he wins the job and falls flat, or if Kolb falls flat or gets injured, and Skelton fails in relief of Kolb, then yes, we'll be able to say he's had his chance to improve and blew it. Until then, I find it a head scratcher that people want to crucify the kid for his accuracy problems, when he hasn't had much of a chance to learn his way out of it.
I mean, Kolb's been in the league far longer, and looked godawful with stuff a high schooler should be able to learn, and people STILL want to be patient with him. Why can't those same people be patient with Kolb?
Anyway, always nice debating with you, CW!
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Duck did a pretty good job of answering a lot of what you asked of me, and saved me time in doing it. Go Duck!
Anyway, like he said, Skelton was 3rd string in his rookie offseason and camp, meaning he got maybe...MAYBE...a sniff of developmental coaching, at most. Once he was thrust into the starting lineup, he got even less. Why? Every second of his time was focused on getting ready for the next game. No time to take the hours and hours needed to learn new mechanics by rote. So, he basically had no time in his rookie season.
In his second season, there was no offseason. Once he got to a hugely shortened camp, who do you think got all the reps and coaching? Kolb, the guy they had traded for. He certainly got more work in than he had at the last camp, simply because he was no longer 3rd string. Still, he couldn't have had much. Ditto once the season started.
Now, he will definitely have plenty of time and coaching to develop this season. If he wins the job and falls flat, or if Kolb falls flat or gets injured, and Skelton fails in relief of Kolb, then yes, we'll be able to say he's had his chance to improve and blew it. Until then, I find it a head scratcher that people want to crucify the kid for his accuracy problems, when he hasn't had much of a chance to learn his way out of it.
I mean, Kolb's been in the league far longer, and looked godawful with stuff a high schooler should be able to learn, and people STILL want to be patient with him. Why can't those same people be patient with Kolb?
Anyway, always nice debating with you, CW!
He was 4th string. Leinart-Anderson-Hall-Skelton. Last offseason he had limited camp reps because of Kolb but also because he suffered an injury relatively early in camp. There was a lot of talk into August that Richard Bartel might supplant Skelton as #2 on the depth chart.
Anyway, I'm not going to squat on a thread that DD started to keep the Kolb guys together--shame on you all who wanted to come in and rain on his parade. For what it's worth, Dawg last offseason carefully considered all the options leading up to the draft and put his chips on Kevin Kolb. He's not lurking in the bushes to spring out and trap anyone. He was there behind TJ and Arizona's Finest beating the Kevin Kolb drum, and he's been fairly true to that all the way through the year.
Arizona's Finest
Your My Favorite Mistake
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Yup and still a Kolb supporter. But I'd by lying if I said the way last year went down didn't severely damper my hopes and had me seeing shades of Matt Leinart.
Im in prove it mode and really have a short fuss for him looking like a putz I.e. Fanfest. I was definitely a supporter last offseason but am skeptical now. I still think he's got the goods, question is can he stay heathy and show grit?
Honestly I don't know....
Im in prove it mode and really have a short fuss for him looking like a putz I.e. Fanfest. I was definitely a supporter last offseason but am skeptical now. I still think he's got the goods, question is can he stay heathy and show grit?
Honestly I don't know....
ASUCHRIS
ONE HEART BEAT!!!
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If Kolb can stay healthy and perform like he did against Dallas (in the 2nd half) last year he'll be fine
BIG IF
FTFY
OP
OP
I feel the same way.
Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
His accuracy was not only bad, it was horrible Stout...there was times when Skelton was no different than Anderson or worse and yes, accuracy is not something you can GREATLY improve. I'm not talking about throwing to the right guy, I'm talking about knowing where your guy is and throwing it totally high or in the dirt. Give me more than one example where a QB drafted in the NFL vastly improved their accuracy...it just is not likely to happen. Huh? Ever type that with a straight face...
mrbyte
Be careful what you wish for.
Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
The NFL coaches will tell you the kids from the real small schools are behind the kids from the big schools when they get to the NFL. And it's not just coaching it's also playing against inferior competition and not having access to state of the art training equipment as well. There IS a huge gap between even Conference USA and the Patriot League.
It is also common knowledge that the more reps a QB has with his receivers and first team offense the better he will play with them. Skelton was THIRD string his rookie season. He probably spent more time running other teams plays on the scout team than the Cardinals.
Oh and by the way, Double Duece's HC at Fordham was a former Defensive Coordinator and the QB coach got fired last season.
Meanwhile Kolb played for Art Briles one of the best offensive minds in the country.
A little bit of trivia: Briles once coached at Stephenville HS where Kevin Kolb played HS ball and which is home to Tarelton State where Richard Bartel played his last two years of college football. Briles won 4 state championships at Stephenville.
Skelator's opponents at Fordham his Senior year included: Rhode Island, Columbia, Colgate, Bryant, Old Dominion, Holy Cross and Lehigh. Tough schedule...if you are playing women's field hockey.
Plausible (and articulate as usual Duck). I'm not going to belabor the point. Like I said, I'll concede there some logic in what Stout is asserting.
I just hope that you and Stout won't be too disappointed if John doesn't turn the corner this year. I could be wrong, but I think the history of the NFL shows this to be unlikely. That's why I'm staying on the Kolb bandwagon.
But I'm definitely pulling for Skelton. If he's our QBOF, great. If, in 2012, he posts a QB rating or 80 or better with 200 or more pass attempts, I'll buy all three of us #19 jerseys. How's that for a good sport?
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kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Is this thread about preferring Kolb to Skelton, or thinking that Kolb is going to be a good NFL QB? The former is kind of a coin flip. But if you're arguing the latter, is there any evidence that a sixth-year veteran is going to come in and suddenly become very good after being backup caliber his entire career up to this point (as well as a loser)?
How can you point to history in the NFL for one guy and ignore it for the other?
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