Only in cardinals land

[clif]

Only in cardinals land would a team go from giving a QB 6 years to prove he is the man.. to 6 starts for the next guy.

Consistency is the key.

I pose this question to the people who say Josh should get another half or so to prove himself.

What if he goes out and puts up Peyton Manning type numbers? What will that prove in your mind?

I don't know if Josh it the man or not, but the general wisdom would be to let him prove one way or the other. Yanking him after a half in what would be his 7th NFL start would prove nothing. The same way letting him play the entire game would. He needs at least another 6 - 8 games.

 

[Redmark]

We also need a win while we're giving Josh OJT

Let him start. If the offense moves and scores points, great! If not and we're still in the game at halftime, bring in King to see if what he did in Atlanta can carry forward to give us a much needed win. In this scenario I can see King taking over as the starter for a few weeks until he falters or gets injured. Josh McCown will get more opportunities to prove his worth before the season is done. Hopefully he'll have a settled O-line and all his weapons to see if he truly is the answer.

 

[jstadvl]

If he puts up good numbers

it'll be the receivers making great catches, not McCown throwing good passes or making his reads properly, or leading the team to victory. C'mon.
And I don't think King showed anything better than McCown.

 

[spanky1]

it'll be the receivers making great catches, not McCown throwing good passes or making his reads properly, or leading the team to victory. C'mon.
And I don't think King showed anything better than McCown.

 

[Tangodnzr]

it'll be the receivers making great catches, not McCown throwing good passes or making his reads properly, or leading the team to victory. C'mon.
And I don't think King showed anything better than McCown.

I don't know what your prejudice against Josh is, but in the Atlanta game, he should have put to rest any doubts about his passing ability.

Not only did he complete a very high % of passess, by far the majority of them were out patterns 7-8 yds or MORE, to the sidelines, and all "right on the money". Those are some of the hardest passes for QB's to make. Some can't even do it reasonably well, period, let alone get them there accurately and with a little "zip".

You can maybe kibitz about some of the other aspects of his game.....holding the ball too long, pocket presense, not holding the ball securely enough, etc, etc..(which by the way, doesn't make them true either), but to diss his arm strength and accuracy (what else is there? "touch" maybe? and he hasn't shown any shortcoming so far there either), is just flat ridiculous.

 

[This_Guy]

Only in cardinals land would a team go from giving a QB 6 years to prove he is the man.. to 6 starts for the next guy.

This logic is kooky at best.

Newsflash: This is McCown's 3rd year. He is not a rookie.

If you want to be consistent, note that Jake Plummer threw 32 TD passes (25 starts) before his third season. King threw 25 TD passes (21 starts) before his 3rd season. McCown had thrown 5. And he's still stuck on 5 almost 1/4 of the way through his 3rd season.

So almost every person on this board thinks that both Plummer and King are not the answer, yet McCown is developing far more slowly. So for consistency fans should wait longer for McCown?

What if he goes out and puts up Peyton Manning type numbers? What will that prove in your mind?

You do realize that Manning equaled McCown's career TD output in one half last week, right?

Tell you what, if that happens, I'll dance a jig for you.

 

[Redheart]

I don't know what your prejudice against Josh is, but in the Atlanta game, he should have put to rest any doubts about his passing ability.

Not only did he complete a very high % of passess, by far the majority of them were out patterns 7-8 yds or MORE, to the sidelines, and all "right on the money". Those are some of the hardest passes for QB's to make. Some can't even do it reasonably well, period, let alone get them there accurately and with a little "zip".

You can maybe kibitz about some of the other aspects of his game.....holding the ball too long, pocket presense, not holding the ball securely enough, etc, etc..(which by the way, doesn't make them true either), but to diss his arm strength and accuracy (what else is there? "touch" maybe? and he hasn't shown any shortcoming so far there either), is just flat ridiculous.

Damn. Great post Tango. You have your "stuff" today.

 

[This_Guy]

I don't know what your prejudice against Josh is, but in the Atlanta game, he should have put to rest any doubts about his passing ability.

Not only did he complete a very high % of passess, by far the majority of them were out patterns 7-8 yds or MORE, to the sidelines, and all "right on the money". Those are some of the hardest passes for QB's to make. Some can't even do it reasonably well, period, let alone get them there accurately and with a little "zip".

You can maybe kibitz about some of the other aspects of his game.....holding the ball too long, pocket presense, not holding the ball securely enough, etc, etc..(which by the way, doesn't make them true either), but to diss his arm strength and accuracy (what else is there? "touch" maybe? and he hasn't shown any shortcoming so far there either), is just flat ridiculous.

With all due respect, no freakin way.

A) The majority of division 1-A QBs can complete the 7-8 yard out. It requires 1 simple read, man vs zone and how far off is the DB. There's no QB that has made an active NFL roster that cannot throw 8 yard out.

B) McCown has a great arm and I think he's pretty acurate too. However, so did Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, Jim Druckenmiller, Akili Smith and Rob Johnson.

On the other hand, Chad Pennington has almost no arm strength and Tom Brady and Joe Montana have/had limited arm strength as well.

Lesson to be learned is that if all McCown has shown so far is that he has a good accurate arm, it doesn't have much significance as far as how his career will go. It's the other stuff that makes a QB what he is.

 

[jstadvl]

Me response

was tongue in cheek. I'm for McCown. I was trying to give an idea of what other's posts would be if he does have a good day.
I guess I didn't do it correctly.

 

[spanky1]

This logic is kooky at best.

Newsflash: This is McCown's 3rd year. He is not a rookie.

If you want to be consistent, note that Jake Plummer threw 32 TD passes (25 starts) before his third season. King threw 25 TD passes (21 starts) before his 3rd season. McCown had thrown 5. And he's still stuck on 5 almost 1/4 of the way through his 3rd season.

So almost every person on this board thinks that both Plummer and King are not the answer, yet McCown is developing far more slowly. So for consistency fans should wait longer for McCown? You do realize that Manning equaled McCown's career TD output in one half last week, right?

Tell you what, if that happens, I'll dance a jig for you.

This is plain unfair. Plummer had played in 25 games during his first three years.......McCown has played in 6. Let's look at the numbers after McCown's 25th game. Talk about skewing the numbers to support a weak argument.

 

[SECTION 11]

was tongue in cheek. I'm for McCown. I was trying to give an idea of what other's posts would be if he does have a good day.
I guess I didn't do it correctly.

I thought it was pretty clear, myself!

 

[Canuck Cardinal]

I agree. It's very premature to target Josh McCown as the root of the offensive struggles... the out pattern routes are very difficult passes and Josh performed superb. His arm strength and accuracy appear to be above average. his running ability also seems above par.

As far as grading intangibles... we need to give Josh a good long look before assessing whether he's championship caliber or not. I see Josh has having a major improvement week to week. I also see him has a guy who needs the asistance of an experienced receiver like Anquan, to run more precise routes and break double coverage. (If you review the game tapes, Larry Fitzgerald did a horrible job with his route running and appears to give up on some of the plays. I suspect his ankle injury is causing him great discomfort because his hands worked well when 4 Atlanta hands were not in front of them.)

Perhaps the addition of Anquan will pay huge divedends for McCown and Fitzgerald.

The real problem, for anyone that reviews the game tapes, can be seen in the lack of production at the RB position. Emmitt Smith is embarassing himself. He is a future hall of famer, that has no burst. At this stage of his career, his input from the sidelines is far more valuable than his input on the field.

McCown is a developing QB that has shown potential. I believe he can become a very good NFL QB in a system that will allow him to continue to develop.
Troy Aikman started out far worse than McCown, and in time McCown will have a career that is as good or better.
Go Josh Go !!!

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I don't know what your prejudice against Josh is, but in the Atlanta game, he should have put to rest any doubts about his passing ability.

Not only did he complete a very high % of passess, by far the majority of them were out patterns 7-8 yds or MORE, to the sidelines, and all "right on the money". Those are some of the hardest passes for QB's to make. Some can't even do it reasonably well, period, let alone get them there accurately and with a little "zip".

You can maybe kibitz about some of the other aspects of his game.....holding the ball too long, pocket presense, not holding the ball securely enough, etc, etc..(which by the way, doesn't make them true either), but to diss his arm strength and accuracy (what else is there? "touch" maybe? and he hasn't shown any shortcoming so far there either), is just flat ridiculous.

Good post Tango (Never thought I would ever be saying that ), But McCown was making some good reads and throws. If it were not for the stupid fumbles and the TD's were converted Cards win say 17-6. Everyone would be praising Josh as the 2nd coming. After New Orleans and Josh performs well the Ass kissing of McCown will then begin.

 

[spanky1]

If McCown turns out as good as Troy Aikman, we'll win five SB's before it's all said and done.......this is high praise!

 

[clif]

This logic is kooky at best.

Newsflash: This is McCown's 3rd year. He is not a rookie.

.

No **** sherlock!


I said

Only in cardinals land would a team go from giving a QB 6 years to prove he is the man.. to 6 starts for the next guy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

was tongue in cheek. I'm for McCown. I was trying to give an idea of what other's posts would be if he does have a good day.
I guess I didn't do it correctly.

The above is very near-sighted to me. If Josh has a good game - I think people will be more like this - "Finally! Man I hope he can continue this - that way it's one less problem we have to worry about!" Sure there are some out there - namely this_guy who probably wouldn't give him any credit even if he threw for 300 yards and 5 TDs - but the majority of us were behind Josh at the beginning of the season and DO want to see him succeed - we just haven't seen it yet.

 

[jstadvl]

don't push me beef

if you have something to add to a thread, then by all means, share it. Don't quote anyone with some back door insult about what you feel of someone else's take. The mods may let it slip but other people keep a count. I don't appreciate it.

 

[spanky1]

if you have something to add to a thread, then by all means, share it. Don't quote anyone with some back door insult about what you feel of someone else's take. The mods may let it slip but other people keep a count. I don't appreciate it.

He's famous for this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

if you have something to add to a thread, then by all means, share it. Don't quote anyone with some back door insult about what you feel of someone else's take. The mods may let it slip but other people keep a count. I don't appreciate it.

you and spanky keep count of what I do? Oye ve!

In all seriousness - wasn't you're take on what others would be saying the same back door insult on all those who are questioning the QBing right now? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. My post wasn't meant to push anything - but your initial post pissed me off and I was merely responding that I for one would be stoked to be able to go back believeing in the thread I started about McCown finally being our savior. Take your sanctimonious crap elsewhere.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He's famous for this.

EDIT: I was being a total douchebag here - post is gone.

 

[jstadvl]

I have some

sanctimonious crap for you. Your gretat at twisting anything around to suit your needs. You might want to take your small man's complex somewhere else. No I didn't quote anyone. I added my take to a thread. You ,on the other hand, quote some one, throw a jab, and then try ro twist it around.
And if I've pissed you off, you know where I tail gate.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The above is very near-sighted to me. If Josh has a good game - I think people will be more like this - "Finally! Man I hope he can continue this - that way it's one less problem we have to worry about!" Sure there are some out there - namely this_guy who probably wouldn't give him any credit even if he threw for 300 yards and 5 TDs - but the majority of us were behind Josh at the beginning of the season and DO want to see him succeed - we just haven't seen it yet.

and where the hell was I insulting here jstadvl? I ribbed This_Guy - but come on - even when Josh was playing well in pre-season wasn't he giving credence to the system instead of Josh?

Your post was insulting in the first place - I characterized it as such, told you were I thought you were wrong - made a half hearted attemtp at ajoke at This_Guy's infatutaion with Shaun King and you and Spanky act like I derail threads with reckless abandon.

Hey - like I said - I didn't post any thread acting like the board gestapo moderator telling newbies how to post, now was I - nor did I even criticize what your take on Josh is - but you certainly criticized where a lot of the baord is basically calling them stupid and stubborn in the process - give me a break man.

 

[Cheesebeef]

sanctimonious crap for you. Your gretat at twisting anything around to suit your needs. You might want to take your small man's complex somewhere else. No I didn't quote anyone. I added my take to a thread. You ,on the other hand, quote some one, throw a jab, and then try ro twist it around.
And if I've pissed you off, you know where I tail gate.

Are you freaking kidding me - you want to fight over what were talking about on a message board? What are you - 8 years old? And please tell me where I was insulting here because I'm missing something.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The above is very near-sighted to me. If Josh has a good game - I think people will be more like this - "Finally! Man I hope he can continue this - that way it's one less problem we have to worry about!" Sure there are some out there - namely this_guy who probably wouldn't give him any credit even if he threw for 300 yards and 5 TDs - but the majority of us were behind Josh at the beginning of the season and DO want to see him succeed - we just haven't seen it yet.

I'm still flabbergasted at where I was insulting here - my post's structure was as follows - I don't agree with your views of how we perceive the QB situation - then I go on to say what I think all of people would do if JOsh had a good game - then I ACKNOWLEDGED that even with your overgeneralized sarcasm - that you would be right - that there would be some people who still gave Josh no credit - then I cited one of those people. Then I ended the post by saying that we want Josh to succeed - in utter confusion - I am missing something here - WHERE WAS I INSULTING - Hell - I even though that your comment had some merit to it . . . but I guess all that gives me a short man's complex
(first time I've ever used that smilie because I have literally no clue where I woudl have provoked such a reaction.)

 

[jstadvl]

Beef

as a matter of fact I wear bi-focals. i'm not insulting anyone. i don't do it. It's not my way. There isn't a person on here that can't categorize me as one of the most civl posters on the board.
I took offense at many of the posts about McCowns crying. And, as i said, can give you real life situations where people have cried and it makes them no less or worse at what they do.
As for fighting, no I'm not 8, but I don't hide behind a keyboard either. That was my point there.
If I pissed you off say that. Say why. Then give me a chance to explain my take.
Saying my take is near sighted is a jab at my knowledge and intelligence, wouldn't you say?