Orange Bowl Thread

[Card Trader]

So you think Georgia, Tenness, LSU, and Auburn dont match up against UCLA, Oregon ST, Stanford, and ASU? hahahah um ok, whatever.

See, this why you are off your rocker....why compare the TOP 4 teams of one conference to teams 3-9 of another conference...it's a stupid and ridiculous comparison. Are you having problems understanding this??

Why would Cal be disappointed? They didnt deserve to be in a major BCS bowl as witnessed by their defeat at the hands of Texas Tech. Sure they had injuries, but do you honestly think they are as good as Auburn? Come on man...Now your just trying to argue.

See, I just plain don't think you know what you are talking about, no one has compared them to the UNDEFEATED Auburn, but do I think they deserved it over Texas....yes. You are just fricken HORRIBLE at comparing things.

Probably the single worst I've ever seen.

I dont hate the Pac-10, **** I went to ASU, but how can you say top-to-bottom it een compares to the SEC, ACC, Big 10 and in most yars the BIG 12? It doesnt. It is much weaker.

Yes, it does.....but your major problem is you aren't comparing TOP to bottom, you are comparing, top....to middle. Like I said, do some research instead of spouting off nonsense.

You have USC..and..err. USC. ASU is not a great football team and you know it. No matter how much you wish it, it just isnt true. They beat a Purdue team coming off a 4 game losing streak including losing to Northwestern. Yeah great win!

Again....Purdue wasn't coming off a 4 game losing streak, off a win actually...ASU was the one who entered the game from a loss.

 

[Russ Smith]

See, I just plain don't think you know what you are talking about, no one has compared them to the UNDEFEATED Auburn, but do I think they deserved it over Texas....yes. You are just fricken HORRIBLE at comparing things.

Probably the single worst I've ever seen.



.

Actually I compared cal to Auburn because cal beat Va Tech last year in the bowl and auburn beat them this year in the Bowl.

I think over the whole season Cal was better than Texas, but at the time they were choosing bowl bids, they knew Cal wouldn't have Mcarthur or Lyman, I said it at the time, just like in seeding for the NCAA basketball tournament they often factor injury in.

 

[Card Trader]

Purdue gave up iover 330yards a game and that 16 they gave up to Michigan genius was in a loss.

THEY LOST TO NORTHWESTERN-NUFF SAID!

330 yards a game is not bad at all in College football, and their POINTS(obviously more important than yards) given up was very very good.

Yeah, they lost the game against Michigan 16-13, but the argument wasn't how their offense did against a good team it was about your ignorant claim that they had no defense. And just an FYI.....16 was the fewest amount of points Michigan scored all season.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

See, this why you are off your rocker....why compare the TOP 4 teams of one conference to teams 3-9 of another conference...it's a stupid and ridiculous comparison. Are you having problems understanding this??



See, I just plain don't think you know what you are talking about, no one has compared them to the UNDEFEATED Auburn, but do I think they deserved it over Texas....yes. You are just fricken HORRIBLE at comparing things.

Probably the single worst I've ever seen.



Yes, it does.....but your major problem is you aren't comparing TOP to bottom, you are comparing, top....to middle. Like I said, do some research instead of spouting off nonsense.



Again....Purdue wasn't coming off a 4 game losing streak, off a win actually...ASU was the one who entered the game from a loss.

Lets ee if this is better for ya:

USC 1
Cal 9
ASU 19
Oregon st NR

Auburn 2
Tennesee, 7
LSU 13
Georgia 15


The Pac-10 has USC, otherwise Auburn, Tennesee, LSU, Georgia are all better teams and ranked higher than the rest.

Hows that for comprisons?

Oh and by the way, I am not a fan of Texas, but Cal could only wish they were as good a team. Michigan would have handed Cal their heads imo


AND btw, someone did compare Auburn to Cal so kindly keep to your own arguements!

 

[Card Trader]

BTW, Purdue's defense ranked 31st in the nation in YPG and tied for 15th in points allowed per game.....at 16.3.

Might be time to end this conversation LV.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Actually I compared cal to Auburn because cal beat Va Tech last year in the bowl and auburn beat them this year in the Bowl.

I think over the whole season Cal was better than Texas, but at the time they were choosing bowl bids, they knew Cal wouldn't have Mcarthur or Lyman, I said it at the time, just like in seeding for the NCAA basketball tournament they often factor injury in.

I might be able to buy that arguement with Texas versus Cal but not Auburn. Auburn was just too damn good this year and I think they would have forced Rodgers into mistakes after they shut down Cal's run game.

But its only one mans opinion

 

[ajcardfan]

I can make your arguement for almost any teams in the SEC, Big 10, or ACC. Most all of them have gone to bowl games the past 5 years includng Vandy, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Wake Forest, etc

Indiana hasn't been to a bowl in more than ten years, and it's been more than 20 since Vanderbilt had a winning season.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

BTW, Purdue's defense ranked 31st in the nation in YPG and tied for 15th in points allowed per game.....at 16.3.

Might be time to end this conversation LV.

<sigh>

They were also 5th in the Big 10 at 4-4 and after going 5-0 lost 4 of their last 6 games while Orton struggled mightly.

Hey we can debate the merits of how good or bad Purdue is all day long, but your the one who said this was a major upset. Perhaps this tells you more where ASU is as a team right now if beating a 5th ranked in their conference team having lost 4 of 6 is a "great win"

Purdue was an avergae team on paper and a below avergae team on the field as witnessed by their season-ending collapse.

 

[Russ Smith]

Oh and by the way, I am not a fan of Texas, but Cal could only wish they were as good a team. Michigan would have handed Cal their heads imo

again when? Going into the bowl game Cal's average margin of victory was 24 Points and that includes the USC loss. They won 2 games by 42 and 5 by 30 or more.

Texas' average margin was 19 and that included a 65-0 win over North Texas, they only had 3 wins by over 30.

The only common opponent I know of was Texas Tech, Texas beat them by 30 but of course Texas was healthy when that game happened. Texas lost 12-0 to OU, which lost 55-19 to USC, which Cal lost to by 6 points when they were healthy.

As I said, we'll never know. IN general it was passing teams not running that gave Cal trouble, that's why I think they'd match up pretty well with Texas or Auburn if they had their WR's. The team that lost to Tech had no chance to beat either Texas or Auburn.

Now can Jamaal Brimmer play FS?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Now can Jamaal Brimmer play FS?

We will agree to disagree on the whole Cal thing..


As far as Brimmer is concerned, i have seen him all over draft boards. I would love to have his ability and hitting at FS but I just dont think he has the speed. He will be a very good SS for someone though.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

again when? Going into the bowl game Cal's average margin of victory was 24 Points and that includes the USC loss. They won 2 games by 42 and 5 by 30 or more.

Texas' average margin was 19 and that included a 65-0 win over North Texas, they only had 3 wins by over 30.

The only common opponent I know of was Texas Tech, Texas beat them by 30 but of course Texas was healthy when that game happened. Texas lost 12-0 to OU, which lost 55-19 to USC, which Cal lost to by 6 points when they were healthy.

As I said, we'll never know. IN general it was passing teams not running that gave Cal trouble, that's why I think they'd match up pretty well with Texas or Auburn if they had their WR's. The team that lost to Tech had no chance to beat either Texas or Auburn.

Now can Jamaal Brimmer play FS?

Good Lord people. All this "team "A" beat team "B" and team "B" beat team "C" therefore team A would have beat team "C" by X amount of points, is a complete waste of time, and you guys look pretty silly arguing about it all day.

 

[kerouac9]

Good Lord people. All this "team "A" beat team "B" and team "B" beat team "C" therefore team A would have beat team "C" by X amount of points, is a complete waste of time, and you guys look pretty silly arguing about it all day.

Oh, yeah!? Well, Oklahoma sucks!

 

[Russ Smith]

Good Lord people. All this "team "A" beat team "B" and team "B" beat team "C" therefore team A would have beat team "C" by X amount of points, is a complete waste of time, and you guys look pretty silly arguing about it all day.

sorry that was actually intentional nonsense before I asked LV about Jamaal Brimmer, we don't agree on Cal et al, never will, fine with me.

So who's OU's QB next year, Bomar or one of the highly touted backups?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Oh, yeah!? Well, Oklahoma sucks!

Well played Kerouac. Well played.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

sorry that was actually intentional nonsense before I asked LV about Jamaal Brimmer, we don't agree on Cal et al, never will, fine with me.

So who's OU's QB next year, Bomar or one of the highly touted backups?

That's a secret Russ Smith. I could tell ya, but then I'd half to kill ya.

 

[Duckjake]

sorry that was actually intentional nonsense before I asked LV about Jamaal Brimmer, we don't agree on Cal et al, never will, fine with me.

So who's OU's QB next year, Bomar or one of the highly touted backups?

Well chances are that he'll be from the Leander Texas area. OU must have 37 guys on their roster from there, most of them quarterbacks.

 

[maddogkf]

Yeah coz U of A has been a real powerhouse these last 5 years...along with Stanford , UCLA, and Washington St.

I can make your arguement for almost any teams in the SEC, Big 10, or ACC. Most all of them have gone to bowl games the past 5 years includng Vandy, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Wake Forest, etc

Before you start spouting off, why don't you look at the facts?

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia_team_index.php


Each team in the PAC has been successful & at least been ranked #2 in the Pac since 1998 compared to the cupcakes that I mentioned.


. The Big10, Big12, SEC, & ACC can't say that

ok..maybe a bit more than 5 yrs for U of A, but everyone else has had a successful season or 2 in the past 5-& been to a major bowl (Holiday Bowl or better)

AZ - 1998 12-1 (Holiday Bowl), 1997 7-5
Stanford - 2001 9-3 (Rose Bowl), 1999 8-4
UCLA - 2002 8-5, 2001 7-4, 1998 10-2 (Rose Bowl), 1997 10-2 (Cotton Bowl)
WSU - 2003 10-3 (Holiday Bowl), 2002 10-3 (Rose Bowl), 2001 10-2, 1997 10-2


KY - 2002 7-5, 1998 7-5 (1999 - Outback Bowl & Music City Bowl)
Vandy - 1999 5-6 (last bowl 1985)
Kansas - 1997 5-6 (Tangeine Bowl?? c'mon)
Indiana - 2001 5-6 (last bowl 1993)
Wake - 2002 7-6, 2001 6-5, 1999 6-5
Baylor - 1996 was best season @ 4-7
Duke - 2 back to back 0-11 seasons, 4-7 best in 1998
Mizzou - 2 yrs w/8 wins (1 @ 8-4, 1 @ 8-5) -ok-
UNC - 2001 8-5, 1998 7-5 -ok-


I wish these cupcakes were in our conference. Sure a team like Ind can pull the upset @ OR once in a while, just like Rutgers @ Mich St or Troy @ Mizzou, but week in & week out the PAC beats the hell out of each other.

If one of these PAC teams were in any of the other conferences, they'd be at the top half of that conf.

touche'

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Well chances are that he'll be from the Leander Texas area. OU must have 37 guys on their roster from there, most of them quarterbacks.

McBrown, Leach and Franchione need to put up fence around TX Dukejake!

Two TX QBs are expected to battle for the top spot in 05'. Redshirt Freshman Bomar (6-4, 208 Grandprairie TX) and Junior Paul Thompson (6-4, 208 (not a typo) Leander TX)

They were discussing it on our talk radio last night. Thompson is solid, with some game experience. But everyone is salivating over Bomar. They say the kid is just oozing talent. Jack Mildren, a pretty fair option QB for OU back in the day, says that Thompson will start spring ball as the incumbent, but will be hard pressed to hold off Bomar.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Before you start spouting off, why don't you look at the facts?

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia_team_index.php


Each team in the PAC has been successful & at least been ranked #2 in the Pac since 1998 compared to the cupcakes that I mentioned.


. The Big10, Big12, SEC, & ACC can't say that

ok..maybe a bit more than 5 yrs for U of A, but everyone else has had a successful season or 2 in the past 5-& been to a major bowl (Holiday Bowl or better)

AZ - 1998 12-1 (Holiday Bowl), 1997 7-5
Stanford - 2001 9-3 (Rose Bowl), 1999 8-4
UCLA - 2002 8-5, 2001 7-4, 1998 10-2 (Rose Bowl), 1997 10-2 (Cotton Bowl)
WSU - 2003 10-3 (Holiday Bowl), 2002 10-3 (Rose Bowl), 2001 10-2, 1997 10-2


KY - 2002 7-5, 1998 7-5 (1999 - Outback Bowl & Music City Bowl)
Vandy - 1999 5-6 (last bowl 1985)
Kansas - 1997 5-6 (Tangeine Bowl?? c'mon)
Indiana - 2001 5-6 (last bowl 1993)
Wake - 2002 7-6, 2001 6-5, 1999 6-5
Baylor - 1996 was best season @ 4-7
Duke - 2 back to back 0-11 seasons, 4-7 best in 1998
Mizzou - 2 yrs w/8 wins (1 @ 8-4, 1 @ 8-5) -ok-
UNC - 2001 8-5, 1998 7-5 -ok-


I wish these cupcakes were in our conference. Sure a team like Ind can pull the upset @ OR once in a while, just like Rutgers @ Mich St or Troy @ Mizzou, but week in & week out the PAC beats the hell out of each other.

If one of these PAC teams were in any of the other conferences, they'd be at the top half of that conf.

touche'

Maybe you should check your stats before 'spouting' off as well.

PAC 10 VS BIG 12 SINCE 1946 112 WINS 126 LOSSES
PAC 10 VS BIG TEN SINCE 1946 219 WINS 233 LOSSES
PAC 10 VS SWC SINCE 1946 62 WINS 66 LOSSES
PAC 10 VS ACC SINCE 1946 20 WINS 18 LOSSES 1 TIE
PAC 10 VS BIG EAST SINCE 1946 13 WINS 10 LOSSES
PAC 10 VS SEC SINCE 1946 23 WINS 49 LOSSES

As you can see the Pac-10's head-to-head with other major conferences is not very good. I dont know how much clearer I can be. I did look at different time frames: 70's to present, 90-presetn etc and they bare about the same conclusions. The Pac-10, once faced with teams from outside their own conference, do not fair very well.

I can also break it down by team but frankly I am a little bored with this thread. Suffice to say, when broken down by teams only a few team (USC, UCLA,) have winnig records against the major conferences


Touche'

 

[Card Trader]

See LV, what makes you and your arguments ridiculous, is that you say one thing and when someone shows you that in a 5 year span(what the discussion was) you bring up a 60 year span? That makes zero sense. Honestly, you just really have no idea what you talk about and grasp at any stat that might make it look like you have a clue.

Sorry.

Originally Posted by LVCARDFREAK
Yeah coz U of A has been a real powerhouse these last 5 years...along with Stanford , UCLA, and Washington St.

I can make your arguement for almost any teams in the SEC, Big 10, or ACC. Most all of them have gone to bowl games the past 5 years includng Vandy, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Wake Forest, etc

5 years......5 years.......5 years......5 years. Not since 1946.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

See LV, what makes you and your arguments ridiculous, is that you say one thing and when someone shows you that in a 5 year span(what the discussion was) you bring up a 60 year span? That makes zero sense. Honestly, you just really have no idea what you talk about and grasp at any stat that might make it look like you have a clue.

Sorry.



5 years......5 years.......5 years......5 years. Not since 1946.

My intial arguement was the Pac-10 is weak. Has always been weak and etc etc. The 5 years thing was brought into the conversation by someone else. Thats their red herring, not mine.

AS the stats I used bore out, I was correct that the PAC--10 against other major conferences, head-to-head, have a losing record.

Fact is you just look for my posts in order to post some verbal diarrhea about how ridiculous I am. Just keep it to yourself, I am not looking to get into some personal job-jab with you over this.

 

[maddogkf]

Maybe you should check your stats before 'spouting' off as well.

PAC 10 VS BIG 12 SINCE 1946 112 WINS 126 LOSSES
PAC 10 VS BIG TEN SINCE 1946 219 WINS 233 LOSSES
PAC 10 VS SWC SINCE 1946 62 WINS 66 LOSSES
PAC 10 VS ACC SINCE 1946 20 WINS 18 LOSSES 1 TIE
PAC 10 VS BIG EAST SINCE 1946 13 WINS 10 LOSSES
PAC 10 VS SEC SINCE 1946 23 WINS 49 LOSSES

As you can see the Pac-10's head-to-head with other major conferences is not very good. I dont know how much clearer I can be. I did look at different time frames: 70's to present, 90-presetn etc and they bare about the same conclusions. The Pac-10, once faced with teams from outside their own conference, do not fair very well.

I can also break it down by team but frankly I am a little bored with this thread. Suffice to say, when broken down by teams only a few team (USC, UCLA,) have winnig records against the major conferences


Touche'

that must be a new kind of math cuz I thought +/- 5 yrs or so ago would've placed us in the late 1990s - (edit) you are the one who brought up games since 1946



If you look at the past 10 years, here's the PAC s record vs the conf:

Aggregate Conference Record, 1995-2004

SEC0.6679630

BigTen 0.491 56 games W 27 L 28 T 1

BigXII 0.467 45 games W 21 L 24

SEC 0.667 9 games W 6 L 3



http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/multi-conference.pl?start=1995&end=2004&team=Arizona&team=ArizonaState&team=California&team=Oregon&team=OregonState&team=SouthernCalifornia&team=Stanford&team=UCLA&team=Washington&team=WashingtonState

Take out Nebraska's 7-2 record vs the PAC & the PAC has a winning record vs the Big XII

it's basically even w/the Big10

touche

 

[Crimson Warrior]

If you guys want to REALLY compare conferences, why don't you compare national championships?

Say since 1965? (just pulled that number out the air)

Thats a great way to compare programs in my opinion. Nobody cares if you went 7-4 or even 9-2 in 1979. But winning it all, mmmm yeah. Thats what its all about. Trust me on that.

People all over the talk radio today shaking their fists at Chuck Long and Bo Pelini. This, after we went 12-1.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

If you guys want to REALLY compare conferences, why don't you compare national championships?

Say since 1965? (just pulled that number out the air)

Thats a great way to compare programs in my opinion. Nobody cares if you went 7-4 or even 9-2 in 1979. But winning it all, mmmm yeah. Thats what its all about. Trust me on that.

People all over the talk radio today shaking their fists at Chuck Long and Bo Pelini. This, after we went 12-1.

I would normally agree but I am strictly talking about the Pac-10 conferences as a whole. I never said just the last 5 years, I said it is weak, has been weak for a while (aside from a few solid years)

 

[Skkorpion]

Aggregate Conference Record, 1995-2004OverallHomeAwayNeutralConferenceWin%gmWLTWin%gmWLTWin%gmWLTWin%gmWLTMWC0.71435251000.752015500.667128400.6673210SEC0.66796300.653200.754310BigEast0.615960144000.584400.3333120PAC-100.572035935920.56236020215710.4383601572021BigTen0.49156272810.8061814310.22041600.518990BigXII0.46745212400.692139400.3681971200.38513580ACC0.3103700.542200.333312003030

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin...WashingtonState

Yup. That clarified it. Even with my trifocals on, I couldn't follow that one.