Ossenfort and Free Agency

[slanidrac16]

I'm not following.

Lets say the Cardinals signed Zach Allen last season to the contract that Denver gave him. The $19M he is due this season would cut into the $40M they have available leaving them with essentially $21M of cap space. That $21m would mean there is less money to sign FAs this season. So what if you got 1FA last season and 3FA this season vs just getting 4FA this season.

Don’t forget Murphy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

At best that's treading water and using draft capital to make up for FA failures. That's not roster building for a rebuilding team--it's applying band aids and hopium. For a good team, for a deep playoff team? Yes, it is a desirable strategy. To build up a team with no talent? No way.

You realize with a terrible team you actually want to build on the talent you already have, not just replace them. If you’re only replacing those guys (and as of yet, those two guys haven’t even done that yet), then you’re still going to have gaping holes at the other CB/D-Linemen position.

What you’re advocating for is treading water. Something this franchise has done forever and why we’re consistently bad.

Borg.

Double borg

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didn't research the players and don't care to waste my time to do so, as it's in the past. Don't tell me you're in the "well, if you don't tell me exactly who you wanted you don't have any room to gripe" faction, are you? That's a poor argument.

Let's put it this way. We should have done more, and not doing so leaves us with more holes now. Surely we can all agree on that simple fact.

I’ll give that faction this: if their argument is that there wasn’t anyone of value worth adding that’s a different conversation.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

LFG!!!!

Hahahaha

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Why are you happy about this? Curious.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

not a poor argument. If a person cannot name who they thought would fit the team then they are simply bitching because its raining.
poo happens... but a rational man certainly would not expect Monti to spend money simply because he has money to spend. Thats the height of stupidity. cap dollars have to be well invested or else the team will suffer for years from those bad decisions.

if a person cannot present a reasonable plan for how they would have spent those cap dollars last season then they should simply never mention them again. Because it is only about spreading negativity and not about discussing football at all.
bitching because its raining

This is a terrible argument. We are fans. Knowledgeable? Some. But still fans. We don’t possess the information, team, experience, and knowledge that a professional GM does. To hold fans to that benchmark is stupid.

If your argument is that there were zero FAs for monti to pursue last year, that argument is equally stupid. I don’t need to possess a professional GM’s knowledge and resources to know that’s false.

 

[slanidrac16]

I am also too lazy to look up what Allen and Murphy did for the Broncos and Vikings. I didn't notice Murphy on any of the Viking games I saw. Did he play?

Allen played in 17 games. Had 60 tackles (27 solo, 33 assists) 5 sacks one forced fumble….for ??? Million?

Murphy played in 14 games with 57 tackles ( 13 solo 43 assist) and 3 ints….for ??? Million?

I’d consider that a small return on investment.

Stills played in 15 games but only started 8. He had 47 tackles ( 18 solo and 29 assist) and 3.5 sacks.

 

[ajcardfan]

Why are you happy about this? Curious.

Agreed. I don't remember him leaving on bad terms. He had a decent year and a half run for us.

 

[slanidrac16]

We were never going replace him last year considering the state of our franchise at the time. Plus it is almost impossible to replace a player like JJ.
Besides, not every player that leaves is replaced. Sometimes resources are spent elsewhere. (granted that didn't happen last year, but we know why)

Stop. You’re making too much sense. Not to mention it cost us cap space after he retired.
God, I’m done looking back. Let’s just bitch about who we didn’t sign in 2021 and 2022.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Stop. You’re making too much sense. Not to mention it cost us cap space after he retired.
God, I’m done looking back. Let’s just bitch about who we didn’t sign in 2021 and 2022.

those darksiders tho... amiright? amiright?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Allen played in 17 games. Had 60 tackles (27 solo, 33 assists) 5 sacks one forced fumble….for ??? Million?

Murphy played in 14 games with 57 tackles ( 13 solo 43 assist) and 3 ints….for ??? Million?

I’d consider that a small return on investment.

Stills played in 15 games but only started 8. He had 47 tackles ( 18 solo and 29 assist) and 3.5 sacks.

I love it when people purposefully leave out stats that actually tell the whole story... and don't even get some of the stats right in the first place.

Allen had 60 tackles, 6 sacks, one forced fumble, 8 TFL AND 24 QB HITS.

Zach Allen Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Zach Allen. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Stills couldn't even start half the season, had 47 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 5 TFL and 5 QB hits.
Tell me there's not a big difference in players who have 2.5 more sacks, 3 more TFLs and a WHOPPING 19 QB HITS.
And the point remains the same. With a ton of cap room last year, if didn't have to be an either or situation... if you want to actually get better, you get BOTH.

 

[Cheesebeef]

those darksiders tho... amiright? amiright?

those Cardinals fans who celebrate failure, amiright?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I’ll give that faction this: if their argument is that there wasn’t anyone of value worth adding that’s a different conversation.

I'd say that's about half of that is my reasoning. The other half is that if there was someone of value worth adding, it would have made us a better team this year. We were oh so close to the #2 pick, but a couple wins here and there that we could have easily won and we'd be picking 7th, or even 11th with 3 more wins.

 

[kerouac9]

LFG!!!!

Hahahaha

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I’ll never understand what drives people to act like this.

 

[slanidrac16]

I love it when people purposefully leave out stats that actually tell the whole story... and don't even get some of the stats right in the first place.

Allen had 60 tackles, 6 sacks, one forced fumble, 8 TFL AND 24 QB HITS.

Zach Allen Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Zach Allen. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Stills couldn't even start half the season, had 47 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 5 TFL and 5 QB hits.
Tell me there's not a big difference in players who have 2.5 more sacks, 3 more TFLs and a WHOPPING 19 QB HITS.
And the point remains the same. With a ton of cap room last year, if didn't have to be an either or situation... if you want to actually get better, you get BOTH.

Sorry that’s all espn offered.
And if we signed Allen and one two more games there would be people bitching that MO doesn’t even know how to tank.
How much did Allen add to the defense? Forget the fact he was surrounded by a wee bit more talent. He’s on the same defense that gave up a 70 burger. Last I checked the Broncos player are out on the golf coarse.
I also like people that leave out pertinent stats. One would think Allen was the second coming of Merlin Olsen.
Obviously there are some here that see this different than me. I’ll leave it there.

 

[oaken1]

This is a terrible argument. We are fans. Knowledgeable? Some. But still fans. We don’t possess the information, team, experience, and knowledge that a professional GM does. To hold fans to that benchmark is stupid.

If your argument is that there were zero FAs for monti to pursue last year, that argument is equally stupid. I don’t need to possess a professional GM’s knowledge and resources to know that’s false.

And pursue free agents he did. Of the "names" available last year... Lazard was the only one I saw as a potential long term benefit to the team. However I rarely look deeper than the top 30-40 available guys. Monti looked beyond that and found us guys who represent long term gain.
Some guys here have been steady bitching about our lack of action for nigh unto nine months straight. Those same individuals offer zero suggestions on who we should have signed .... Then, Stout up above admits that he has been crying about this for nearly a year and never even took time to research any of the players available. I suspect the same can be said for several others.
I suppose to some of you interrupting conversation by spewing negativity and venom without even putting in the effort to research the topic and form an educated opinion is acceptable. The status quo perhaps. But I find it to be disrespectful to those who put in work evaluating players in an effort to provide the board with educated and informed assessments. Similar to a snotty nosed child storming into the room wailing about their broken toy while the adults are trying to have a conversation.

But yeah....you do you. I'm stupid and that's fine.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Allen had 60 tackles, 6 sacks, one forced fumble, 8 TFL AND 24 QB HITS.

Zach Allen Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Zach Allen. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

And the point remains the same. With a ton of cap room last year, if didn't have to be an either or situation... if you want to actually get better, you get BOTH.

That link says he only had 5 sacks in 2023 which puts him behind 85 other players who had more than 5 sacks.

His 8 TFL in 2023 has him behind 80 other players with more than 8 TFL.

His 2024 cap hit ($19M fully guaranteed) has him as the 13th highest cap hit for a DL in the league. He has the highest cap hit for a defensive player on the Broncos in 2024 and would have had the highest cap hit for the Cardinals Defense as well in 2024. I like Zach Allen, but I don't pay that much money for a guy who doesn't routinely command double teams and was the 5th best player at best on a dreadful Cardinal Defense last season.

 

[Dan H]

For fun, what are everyone's deal free agent targets? I'm using the PFF top 100, and eschewing franchise tag candidates.

Me:
DL Justin Madubuike (Baltimore has ~5.5 million in 2024 cap room. Wilkins is also an option here, Miami will have to make some hard decisions)

CB L'Jarius Sneed (KC will have cap room, but Jones is their A-prioirity)

G Robert Hunt (another Dolphins casualty)

RT Mekhi Becton (Swing/potential starter - can our guys coach him up?)

WR Darnell Mooney (MHJ / Mooney / Wilson / Dortch)

DL Fletcher Cox (Rotation and vet experience rejoins Gannon)

Edge Brandon Graham (see above)

 

[Stout]

I’ll give that faction this: if their argument is that there wasn’t anyone of value worth adding that’s a different conversation.

Well, I was told by multiple posters that there were literally no FAs that would have fit my criteria, so...lol

 

[daves]

Every one of those would be considered higher profile free agents than the ones we signed last year (white might rank in the lower middle of THISE guys I’m guessing).

Kyzir White was #61 on that list. The Cardinals also re-signed Kelvin Beachum, who was #59. Those are the ones on the list that the Cards signed.

 

[daves]

I'm not following.

Lets say the Cardinals signed Zach Allen last season to the contract that Denver gave him. The $19M he is due this season would cut into the $40M they have available leaving them with essentially $21M of cap space. That $21m would mean there is less money to sign FAs this season. So what if you got 1FA last season and 3FA this season vs just getting 4FA this season.

I don't understand how some people are finding this so difficult to grasp.

As long as the Cardinals spend close to the cap this off-season, including the rolled-over unspent money from last off-season, they will PRECISELY be making up for everyone not signed last off-season. Plus, the guys they get will be have contracts starting in 2024, rather than having a year burned off already and possibly having contributed to wins in 2023 that would've hurt the Cards' draft position. Plus, the guys they get will be more likely to be better fits to the team's needs, now that Ossenfort has had a season to evaluate the roster and the current needs.

 

[SECTION 11]

So we all agree that Allen wasn’t worth the money, right? I haven’t read any of this, I’m just assuming.

 

[GatorAZ]

So we all agree that Allen wasn’t worth the money, right? I haven’t read any of this, I’m just assuming.

Smart man.

 

[Stout]

I don't understand how some people are finding this so difficult to grasp.

As long as the Cardinals spend close to the cap this off-season, including the rolled-over unspent money from last off-season, they will PRECISELY be making up for everyone not signed last off-season. Plus, the guys they get will be have contracts starting in 2024, rather than having a year burned off already and possibly having contributed to wins in 2023 that would've hurt the Cards' draft position. Plus, the guys they get will be more likely to be better fits to the team's needs, now that Ossenfort has had a season to evaluate the roster and the current needs.

I can't type for laughing. Cap space doesn't equal players doesn't equal cap space. You can easily frontload a contract to eat up, say, double the space and only sign one player. So the team could easily sign half the players and still eat up the space. But, hey, Bidwill would never do something creative to make it look like he's spending money while saving a boatload of cash, would he?

 

[daves]

I can't type for laughing. Cap space doesn't equal players doesn't equal cap space. You can easily frontload a contract to eat up, say, double the space and only sign one player. So the team could easily sign half the players and still eat up the space. But, hey, Bidwill would never do something creative to make it look like he's spending money while saving a boatload of cash, would he?

Well, if they inexplicably sign only one player this off-season and front load the contact to eat up all their cap space, then I guess you'll have a point. Otherwise, not. Weird argument.

 

[Stout]

Well, if they inexplicably sign only one player this off-season and front load the contact to eat up all their cap space, then I guess you'll have a point. Otherwise, not. Weird argument.

Yes, you had a weird argument, agreed. I only gave one example. Extrapolate what I said. If they sign 2-3 starters and eat up all the cap space would you consider that two FA periods worth of players? Of course not. That would be dumb. By frontloading those contracts, they could easily eat up all the cap space on only 2-3 players, though, with some extensions here and there. Then Monti can toss up his hands and say, "See, we spent it all!" while still failing to plug the holes caused last year.

You cannot say X amount of cap equals X amount of players because contracts and cap hits are flexible. A very easy concept.