OT: Air McNair found shot to death

[Shane]

"He was making her believe they were going to be together and everything would be perfect.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4307274

Mmm hmmm.

 

[Shane]

RedViper

I don't think your analogy is accurate. Going to Circle K and getting shot as an innocent bystander is a completely different scenario than a crime of passion. Getting involved with an immature person just adds to the risk factor. If you think that having an affair with someone can't possibly lead to dire circumstances then I think you've been ignoring the news for a while.

When(if?) McNair chose to have an affair he chose to put himself in a situation that could eventually escalate. Death is certainly an extreme example but not an uncommon one.

Yup

 

[RedViper]

The choices he made resulted in his death plain and simple. It doesnt get any more simple than that. He is culpable because he put himself in a position to allow a 20 something year old female to fall for him and obviously become an emotional wreck because of it. There is culpability in that IMHO. Whether you like it or not really doesnt matter to me. Of course nobody that chooses to do that expects it to happen but inevitibly it does happen more often than people think.

Your Circle K analogy is quite frankly ********. Apples and Oranges in the biggest sense of the words.

Who are you to say what Mcnair deserves? You dont even know the man. Im willing to bet that his own wife is cursing him right about now.

Shane your analogy that the murder is the result of the affair is what is quite frankly ********. You are using "but for" logic to defend your odious position that McNair "chose his path" and doesn't deserve sympathy. You could just as easily say, if the murderers parents hadn't chosen to have sex twenty years ago, McNair wouldn't be dead. (Or if you like, the bystanders only dead because he went to the circle K, would he be dead if he hadn't gone to the Circle K?) Just because one followed the other is doesn't thereby create fault. The murderers parents or the crime victims choice aren't responsible for murder anymore than McNair's choice to have an affair can allow us to declare that he chose his path. Again having an affair doesn't provide a single shred of logic to say, that guy should have foreseen death by homicide as the result.

And I don't know McNair. I don't know a damn thing about him other than he was a quarterback in the NFL. But I know this, its sick and sad as well as completely unjustifiable and over the top to say McNair chose his path (the path to death by multiple gunshot wounds) because he had an affair with a twenty year old that was charged with a DUI. On those facts alone, which is all you or I know about the situation, its an absurd statement to say McNair chose his path. When in doubt, we'll start by blaming that victim. Let there be no doubt about whats going on here. I happen to object to that.

 

[RedViper]

RedViper

When(if?) McNair chose to have an affair he chose to put himself in a situation that could eventually escalate. Death is certainly an extreme example but not an uncommon one.

I'm going to go way out on a limb and declare that almost none of the extramarital affairs on this planet result in homicide by gun shot wound or any sort of homicide whatsoever. I don't have the stats to back it up, but I'm going to say that result is uncommon. In the county I live in, I'm going to declare there were multiple thousand of extramarital affairs and I can tell you we didn't have a single murder suicide here as the result. I can just see it at the bar, "dude you mess around on your wife with that gal, its a certainly she's going to shoot you twice in the chest, twice in the head. So just don't do it. Don't you know she has a DUI charge? You mess with her, you are good as dead." Yeah I don't think that usually the way it goes down. I'm going to say when that is the result, it is uncommon. Most people choose divorce over homicide. When they turn to homicide, it is uncommon. Thats just my horse sense

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Mmm hmmm.

Here is something a little curious: Go look at that Norfleet guy's myspace and read his heading.
http://www.myspace.com/460719734


It reads:
"never let anyone or anything come in between you and the one you love because when you do you lose everything"

IMO, they should be looking a that dude as suspect #1

Maybe I am looking to much into it, but if you listen to all of the songs in his music selection the all have a common theme...

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Good God Red Viper.. Figure it out... Shane's not saying he agrees that adultery should = a death sentence, he's saying his actions appear to have contributed 100% to his demise.

Your arguing that playing with fire should not = burns ?

 

[RedViper]

Good God Red Viper.. Figure it out... Shane's not saying he agrees that adultery should = a death sentence, he's saying his actions appear to have contributed 100% to his demise.

Your arguing that playing with fire should not = burns ?

Saying McNair "chose his path" based on a having an affair, is quite simply ridiculous. Thats my argument. Let's break it down though. I'm definitely arguing playing with fire (having an affair) should not burn if burning means getting shot execution style in your living room. That doesn't amount to choosing a path. None of McNair decisions or choices here should cause anyone to declare he chose a path to his death.

As for his actions contributing 100% to his demise, that position is so absurd, I'm sure Shane isn't saying that. That would mean the murderers decision to kill him execution style, contributed 0% percent to his demise. I'm not pinning that on Shane or anyone else at this point. Is that really what you think though?

 

[joshstmarie]

Here is something a little curious: Go look at that Norfleet guy's myspace and read his heading.
http://www.myspace.com/460719734


It reads:
"never let anyone or anything come in between you and the one you love because when you do you lose everything"

IMO, they should be looking a that dude as suspect #1

Maybe I am looking to much into it, but if you listen to all of the songs in his music selection the all have a common theme...

i think you might have something. those songs, that quote....its AWFULLY peculiar. even the quotes from him in the newspaper threw up a ""yellow" flag for me... hmmm. kinda makes me wonder even more now.

 

[Renz]

Saying McNair "chose his path" based on a having an affair, is quite simply ridiculous. Thats my argument. Let's break it down though. I'm definitely arguing playing with fire (having an affair) should not burn if burning means getting shot execution style in your living room. That doesn't amount to choosing a path. None of McNair decisions or choices here should cause anyone to declare he chose a path to his death.

As for his actions contributing 100% to his demise, that position is so absurd, I'm sure Shane isn't saying that. That would mean the murderers decision to kill him execution style, contributed 0% percent to his demise. I'm not pinning that on Shane or anyone else at this point. Is that really what you think though?

Not to speak for Shane, but I think he's saying that if McNair hadn't had the affair, he would be alive right now. By that reasoning, the affair contributed 100% to his death.

 

[RavensSuck1989]

McNair's name was on her Escalade, People in the condo complex made note that the woman could be seen coming in and out of his condo 3-4 times a week,

This one is pretty easy to figure out based on the facts given.

Famous athlete sweeps 20 year old girl off her feet, then tries to end it when the wife catches wind of the affair.

Freak girl decides if she can't have him, no one can.

The end.

That's the logical assumption. However, it's still too early to just assume these sort of things.

Everyone needs to stop making assumptions. One of two things happened... a murder/suicide or a double murder. All we know for sure is that McNair was murdered. That's a fact. The rest is still up for debate.

You said if she can't have him, no one can. That may very well be true. But why would she kill herself? I've been saying this all along... women kill men; women kill themselves; women don't combine the two. Think about it. This case is far from being solved.

 

[Sandan]

Vhe just couldn't put two words together he was so drunk...

Been there occasionly

 

[Russ Smith]

There's some really weird stories on this one coming out. There's a report that patrons in a bar saw a "white woman" confront McNair and accuse him of having slipped her a date rape drug in the past and told him that her boyfriend was going to kill him(McNair). So now they're trying to get eyewitnesses to decide if the woman who uttered that threat, was the same woman found dead with McNair. the pic I've seen plus her last name she appears to be Persian so I don't think she'd be called a "white woman."

And yeah her ex boyfriend does come off awfully suspicious.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

That's the logical assumption. However, it's still too early to just assume these sort of things.

Everyone needs to stop making assumptions. One of two things happened... a murder/suicide or a double murder. All we know for sure is that McNair was murdered. That's a fact. The rest is still up for debate.

You said if she can't have him, no one can. That may very well be true. But why would she kill herself? I've been saying this all along... women kill men; women kill themselves; women don't combine the two. Think about it. This case is far from being solved.

The same reason that some men kill themselves after committing murder I suppose.. Guilt..despair..not wanting to live behind bars the rest of their lives.

Where is the data that suggests women never commit suicide after murder? I'll agree it's a lot less common than men doing it.. but that's obvious because men commit murder a hell of a lot more often.


From the U.S dept of Justice:


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Homicide trends in the U.S.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Trends by gender[/FONT] Most victims and perpetrators in homicides are male

Male offender/Male victim 65.3%

Male offender/Female victim 22.7%

Female offender/Male victim 9.6%

Female offender/Female victim 2.4%

Both male and female offenders are more likely to target male victims than female victims.

You must have missed this fairly recent story?
http://www.webcastr.com/videos/underground/woman-kills-son-self-at-gun-range.html

 

[NuttinButTDs]

Good God Red Viper.. Figure it out... Shane's not saying he agrees that adultery should = a death sentence, he's saying his actions appear to have contributed 100% to his demise.

Your arguing that playing with fire should not = burns ?

Death is inevitable. Actions are inevitable or we would not be living. So are we stating that any action we take will result in our demise.

Lets face it, this could be a case of Fatal Attraction. It does happen, but lets not condone it by saying it is the path he choose. We are playing with semantics.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

He's obviously not the saint,or "great guy" that people are making him out to be if he's having an affair witha 20 year old and being accused of slipping people roofies. Didn't he have some DUI issues a fews years back as well? The media, and people in general, tend to liken his on the field performance to how good a person that guy is when, in fact, none of us know what kind of life,or type of person, these guys are off the field whatsoever.

I agree with Shane that his actions contributed to his getting shot. Did he deserve to get shot,no, but his messing with the 20 year old put him in the circumstances to allow for something like this to happen. Put it another way, if i was messing with someone's wife and,somehow, the husband found out about it, i would be a little worried that he may come after me and shoot me. Is it deserved? No, but that's a distinct possibility and i put myself in that position by messing with a married woman.

 

[RavensSuck1989]

You must have missed this fairly recent story?
http://www.webcastr.com/videos/underground/woman-kills-son-self-at-gun-range.html

That was her own child... completely different.

Find me a story about a woman killing her boyfriend and then killing herself (rather than running)... I'm sure there's one out there, but it's such a rarity.

All I'm saying is don't make assumptions. The ONLY thing that has been proven for sure is that McNair was murdered. The rest has still yet to be proven. It seems to be a murder/suicide, but don't jump to solid conslusions just yet.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just wait and see. Her boyfriend could have done it. You never know.

For me (a McNair fan since I was 8 years old) to not jump to conclusions and accuse this woman of the murder means something. Imagine what the girl's family is going through right now. They're saddened as well regardless of how it happened. I doubt they want people to be blaming their daughter for something she hasn't been proven guilty of.

DON'T ASSUME.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Death is inevitable. Actions are inevitable or we would not be living. So are we stating that any action we take will result in our demise.

No one is stating that.
Yes, death can come unexpectedly from a million different ways that you have no control over, however the decisions you make everyday CAN and most often times WILL come into play.

Lets face it, this could be a case of Fatal Attraction. It does happen, but lets not condone it by saying it is the path he choose. We are playing with semantics.

Wow, wtf?

Who here has condoned it?
No one here said he deserved to die for his actions.

And yes, barring a complete change of the facts given, The path he chose did indeed bring him to this.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

That was her own child... completely different.

Find me a story about a woman killing her boyfriend and then killing herself (rather than running)... I'm sure there's one out there, but it's such a rarity.

There is a crap-load, try google.


Search: Woman kills man, then self

DON'T ASSUME.

Kazemi, 20, had one gunshot wound, to the head, according to police. A semiautomatic pistol was found under her body later during processing of the crime scene, and there was no sign of forced entry, police said.

Nashville police said Saturday night that they weren't actively looking for suspects.

Just going from the facts at hand.

 

[moklerman]

I'm going to go way out on a limb and declare that almost none of the extramarital affairs on this planet result in homicide by gun shot wound or any sort of homicide whatsoever.

Well, until we get something a little more concrete this thought may have to be put on hold. The little bit of google-ing I did showed that the #1 cause of pre-meditated murder is the love triangle.

It isn't "common" if you want to place a percentage on it based on the number of people who are cheating but it is very common if you look at the one's who do get killed and why.

But it is a simple, irrefutable fact that if he wasn't having an affair with this girl then he would not have been killed with her. How is that even debatable? If he was at home with his wife and kids instead of spending 3 days with this girl, who wasn't even old enough to drink alcohol (where I live) then he would not have been killed the way he was.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

Wow, wtf?

Who here has condoned it?
No one here said he deserved to die for his actions.

And yes, barring a complete change of the facts given, The path he chose did indeed bring him to this.

Technically no one is stating that. But we keep saying his chosen path led to his demise

If McNair was single, led a saintly life, would we state it was the path he choose. The only choice that turned out to be bad was the woman. Whether she did it, or someone else did it because of her, does not mean his chosen path can be linked to his demise. Linking his prior transgressions with this event and implying it led to his death is inherently condoning it my book.

Again, it is my opinion

Cheers

 

[RavensSuck1989]

Just going from the facts at hand.

I'm going by the facts as well. It appears to be a murder/suicide... strongly appears to be, for that matter. You seem to be 100% sure though. You acted like everyone is just beating around the bush, and you're the only one who knows what's going on. Everyone realizes that a murder/suicide is most likely the case, but they're waiting for the verdict. No one knows for sure. That's the truth.

Other possibility: her boyfriend storms in, shoots McNair multiple times in a rage, executes his girlfriend, lays the gun by her, takes a key, locks up, and leaves.

Is that possible?

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I'm going by the facts as well. It appears to be a murder/suicide... strongly appears to be, for that matter. You seem to be 100% sure though. You acted like everyone is just beating around the bush, and you're the only one who knows what's going on. Everyone realizes that a murder/suicide is most likely the case, but they're waiting for the verdict. No one knows for sure. That's the truth.

Other possibility: her boyfriend storms in, shoots McNair multiple times in a rage, executes his girlfriend, lays the gun by her, takes a key, locks up, and leaves.

Is that possible?

Of course it's possible, even likely.

One thing appears to be fact, This 20 year old skirt was his demise, whether directly or indirectly.

 

[az jam]

What a tragedy. Regardless of who did what and why; we have two people dead and one was a very loved NFL player, Steve McNair. He was only 36 and did so much for the Titans, the NFL and the community that he lived in.

My prayers and thoughts are with him and his family.

 

[RavensSuck1989]

Of course it's possible, even likely.

One thing appears to be fact, This 20 year old skirt was his demise, whether directly or indirectly.

Okay... that's all I've been trying to say. A couple pages back you seemed to think that it was all said and done.

Yes. That definitely was his demise. I wish he had been faithful. I really hate adultery. He was still a good guy though.

 

[RedViper]

But it is a simple, irrefutable fact that if he wasn't having an affair with this girl then he would not have been killed with her. How is that even debatable? If he was at home with his wife and kids instead of spending 3 days with this girl, who wasn't even old enough to drink alcohol (where I live) then he would not have been killed the way he was.

Thats why no one has been debating that fact. It would be the equivalent of saying if she had used a water pistol instead of a handgun with live rounds, Steve would be fine right now. What is being debated is whether or not saying "he chose his path" or "he completely chose his path," or "he is one hundred percent responsible for his own demise" amounts to blaming the victim. I think it does. Its the kind of thing I see defense lawyers do, every single day in court and it happens to repulse me. Especially with a homicide victim who no longer gets to speak for himself. And for anyone that thinks "he chose is path" is just an innocuous comment, tell me with a straight face you could go to his funeral and make that statement around his family and not get blow-back. Its clear what the statement means and it clearly sucks.