OT: Arians doing it again

[Solar7]

This really speaks volume when Jameis has 2 WR1s & Kyler barely has a WR2.

It's a rookie year comparison, not this year.

We drafted two high round WRs in the past two years that Kyler could utilize. It's wonderful that the Buccaneers actually invested in one that was good.

 

[Solar7]

The Bucaneers have a significantly better roster.

I loved Arians for awhile but I've moved on. Got really sick of seeing 30 yard throws incomplete on 3rd & 2.

You're sick of the winningest coach we've had in franchise history, but not sick of the guy who has no oversight of the defense and goes for it deep in his own territory?

 

[DVontel]

It's a rookie year comparison, not this year.

We drafted two high round WRs in the past two years that Kyler could utilize. It's wonderful that the Buccaneers actually invested in one that was good.

Just change the initial post to just 1 WR1 then tbh.

 

[Solar7]

Just change the initial post to just 1 WR1 then tbh.

I still feel like it's excuses being made. How many "good" quarterbacks in your list require a top ten overall draft pick at WR to succeed? I struggle to understand your qualifications for good or bad play.

What's frustrating is that KM is more good than bad, but posters keep anointing him already. Larry and Kirk suddenly suck, KM needs CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy to do it, the offensive line isn't his fault, the defensive line isn't his fault... I don't know. I can't wait until January, I'll say that.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

The difference is, BA knows how to win games. Kliff is still learning how to do this. If we pull out a win in SEA or LA, I’ll feel real confident he will be on a very solid track towards success.

I feel like we will be even playing both those games close. Look at the games we almost won this yr, a play here, a play there. Then Look at our personnel on defense lol. About 5 games worth of missed opportunities. Just have to see how much we improve in the offseason? This team will definitely look a whole lot different next season, that's for sure, personnel wise. We will be better if...............SK doesn't screw it up lol?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I still feel like it's excuses being made. How many "good" quarterbacks in your list require a top ten overall draft pick at WR to succeed? I struggle to understand your qualifications for good or bad play.

What's frustrating is that KM is more good than bad, but posters keep anointing him already. Larry and Kirk suddenly suck, KM needs CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy to do it, the offensive line isn't his fault, the defensive line isn't his fault... I don't know. I can't wait until January, I'll say that.

Why January Solar 7? What's happening then? I can't wait till March & the FA period to start, then the draft. KM Will be just fine. Any QB needs a good OL & weapons at his disposal, wouldn't hurt to have a good defense also lol. Ours is crap right now.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Arians probably just doomed that franchise by having them win enough to decide keeping Jameis next season. BA is a coach of the now & not the future.

I 2nd that. Still can't understand why we didn't draft the successor to Palmer while BA was here? Was that the fault of BA or SK? We drafted Reddick & could've gone after a QB. I still think that was all BA & not SK. Why? Because Reddick played at Temple & that's the alma mater of BA. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[DVontel]

I still feel like it's excuses being made. How many "good" quarterbacks in your list require a top ten overall draft pick at WR to succeed? I struggle to understand your qualifications for good or bad play.

What's frustrating is that KM is more good than bad, but posters keep anointing him already. Larry and Kirk suddenly suck, KM needs CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy to do it, the offensive line isn't his fault, the defensive line isn't his fault... I don't know. I can't wait until January, I'll say that.

That’s not an excuse. An excuse would be like me saying Philip Rivers is cursed because he never made the big one when in reality he always failed to elevate the team around him when his teams were already really good.

His WR doesn’t need to be a top 10 or even a round 1 selection. Just one that can create separation on a consistent basis & take some of the pressure off Kyler.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Kingsbury being compared to Arians.... now that's funny. If it was a fight it'd look like this:

You must be registered for see images attach

Comparing KK to Wilks is a more valid comp.

 

[PACardsFan]

Kingsbury being compared to Arians.... now that's funny. If it was a fight it'd look like this:

You must be registered for see images attach

Comparing KK to Wilks is a more valid comp.

To be honest, no one was comparing KK directly to BA. The comparison was the combination of BA/JW to the combination of KK/KM.

 

[PACardsFan]

I 2nd that. Still can't understand why we didn't draft the successor to Palmer while BA was here? Was that the fault of BA or SK? We drafted Reddick & could've gone after a QB. I still think that was all BA & not SK. Why? Because Reddick played at Temple & that's the alma mater of BA. Maybe I'm wrong?

Just to be accurate, BA coached at Temple, but his alma mater was Virginia Tech. But, BA was truly stubborn about not drafting a QB. BA’s stubbornness to not go through a short rebuild after the drubbing in the NFC Championship game against the Panthers & then the Wilks debacle is the reason why we are now in a 3 year rebuild.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

To be honest, no one was comparing KK directly to BA. The comparison was the combination of BA/JW to the combination of KK/KM.

But BA is such a superior coach, I'd take him with about any QB over KK.
I think BA would/did win more games with Drew Stanton at QB than Kingsbury has with Murray. And that's not a knock on Murray.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Just to be accurate, BA coached at Temple, but his alma mater was Virginia Tech. But, BA was truly stubborn about not drafting a QB. BA’s stubbornness to not go through a short rebuild after the drubbing in the NFC Championship game against the Panthers & then the Wilks debacle is the reason why we are now in a 3 year rebuild.

Agree 100%. If BA was still the coach the Cards may be contending for a playoff spot this year.
I still think there was more to that story but guess we'll never know.

 

[PACardsFan]

But BA is such a superior coach, I'd take him with about any QB over KK.
I think BA would/did win more games with Drew Stanton at QB than Kingsbury has with Murray. And that's not a knock on Murray.

Again, no one is saying that BA isn't the better HC. But BA is almost 70 & KK just turned 40. And I would rather go 1-15 watching Murray play than 8-8 watching Drew Stanton. It got real old watching Palmer/Stanton throw 40 yard passes on 3rd & 2 into triple coverage the last couple of years. I'll ALWAYS love BA, but I know for a fact that it was BA convincing MB to keep our "getting older/slower by the minute" roster together for a championship run that was NEVER going to happen.

 

[PACardsFan]

Agree 100%. If BA was still the coach the Cards may be contending for a playoff spot this year.
I still think there was more to that story but guess we'll never know.

Well, because of BASK's PA (York County) roots & friendships here, I DO know more of the story. I've alluded to much of it & some on this board poo poo what I've told them. Call me sometime. I've literally sat at the table & listened very closely. And yes, adult beverages can be a truth serum.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Are we really that much worse than the Bucs?

Yes.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[Russ Smith]

BA is a great coach and Kliff is a rookie so yeah no question who the better coach is. That said I think the idea that he's somehow getting an elite career year out of Winston is misleading. In his 2nd year Jameis threw 28 TD 18 INT in 567 pass attempts. This year it's 30 and 24 INT in 554 pass attempts. So IMO his 2nd year was actually better. The YPA is a full yard higher this year but his 2nd year he had 18 picks and 6 fumbles(not sure if that's lost or not) this year he has 24 and 9. So the extra yard per attempt and 2 more TD's have come at a HUGE cost, somewhere between 6 and 9 more turnovers.

He is the same guy he's always been he's just playing with a great group of WR's in Godwin and Evans and 2 very good pass catching TE's in Howard and Brate. About the only thing he doesn't have is a great run game.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Comparing 3 day old road kill to Wilks is a more valid comp.

Ftfy.



Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

I think they're a better team because they have more experience at HC. They beat us by 3 points in Tampa and they were healthy.

Remember how it happened we had the lead and were in FG range, Kliff stayed aggressive, Kyler threw a pass to a WR who lost his footing and the ball got picked off. They went down and scored aided by a PI call on review. We got the ball back were aided by a PI call and then on the last play of the game the refs didnt' call a blatant PI against the guy covering Cooper on the hail mary that if called, puts us in FG range to tie the game.

I think in that game we were every bit as good as they were we lost because of a combination of bad luck(guy losing his footing), officiating decisions, and frankly an inexperienced HC who kind of lost track of things IMO and didn't protect the lead in FG range. It was bad luck it was a good throw the WR just couldn't get there due to footing, but it was arguable if we should have been throwing a pass like that in FG range it should have been a much lower risk play.

hopefully Kliff learns from it. That's really IMO the difference between him and Arians, Bruce already knows how to win those kinds of games

 

[PACardsFan]

BA is a great coach and Kliff is a rookie so yeah no question who the better coach is. That said I think the idea that he's somehow getting an elite career year out of Winston is misleading. In his 2nd year Jameis threw 28 TD 18 INT in 567 pass attempts. This year it's 30 and 24 INT in 554 pass attempts. So IMO his 2nd year was actually better. The YPA is a full yard higher this year but his 2nd year he had 18 picks and 6 fumbles(not sure if that's lost or not) this year he has 24 and 9. So the extra yard per attempt and 2 more TD's have come at a HUGE cost, somewhere between 6 and 9 more turnovers.

He is the same guy he's always been he's just playing with a great group of WR's in Godwin and Evans and 2 very good pass catching TE's in Howard and Brate. About the only thing he doesn't have is a great run game.

All true. And even though the Buc's pass D was almost as bad as ours, it was just a matter of time before Bowles turned that D around. Yes, it's quite obvious that Jameis has far more tools around him on BOTH sides of the ball than Murray does. Bottom line, you don't need to really look at stats to understand that KM right now is far better than Jameis Winston ever will be. A simple eye test will provide you that. And then when his antics on the sideline when things go south adds a little more to his idiot status.

 

[phillycard]

Arians is a great coach and it was sad to see him go but Kliff + Kyler > Bruce + Jameis

Oh hells no C. Besides the fact that they already beat us this year, and as much as Jameis can simultaneously frustrate and excite in the course of a quarter let alone a game. KK and KM aren't in the same stratosphere. I love Kyler's potential, but he can't throw that ball like Jameis can yet. Decision making, I do trust our qb more though. Don't get me started on KK.

 

[phillycard]

All true. And even though the Buc's pass D was almost as bad as ours, it was just a matter of time before Bowles turned that D around. Yes, it's quite obvious that Jameis has far more tools around him on BOTH sides of the ball than Murray does. Bottom line, you don't need to really look at stats to understand that KM right now is far better than Jameis Winston ever will be. A simple eye test will provide you that. And then when his antics on the sideline when things go south adds a little more to his idiot status.

PA, I disagree with far better. I watch enough Bucs football as my wife is Tampa fan, and Jameis has made throws this year Kyler hasn't come close to. The man had 225 yards passing in the first quarter last week, with no Evans. If he can get his head out of his behind and lessen the dumb throws, he has some serious talent that can elevate that team. I believe he'll be back next year much better having had the benefit of BA's tutelage.

 

[splitsecond]

Has Arians been above .500 since he trashed Jeff Fisher for always been .500?

 

[Dback Jon]

Has Arians been above .500 since he trashed Jeff Fisher for always been .500?

His last two years in AZ:

7-8-1
8-8

Currently 7-7

 

[kerouac9]

Again, no one is saying that BA isn't the better HC. But BA is almost 70 & KK just turned 40. And I would rather go 1-15 watching Murray play than 8-8 watching Drew Stanton. It got real old watching Palmer/Stanton throw 40 yard passes on 3rd & 2 into triple coverage the last couple of years. I'll ALWAYS love BA, but I know for a fact that it was BA convincing MB to keep our "getting older/slower by the minute" roster together for a championship run that was NEVER going to happen.

This is absolute insanity. Kyler derangement syndrome goes both ways.