OT: Arians doing it again

[RugbyMuffin]

It’s not a weak argument. Murray is like 1,000,000,000 x better than Stanton. I’d pay money to watch Murray & someone would have to pay me money to watch Stanton. I don’t give a rat’s behind what Stantons record was. If he was 9-4, it certainly wasn’t because of anything he did.

Gotcha.

So, you won't pay money to watch Drew Stanton.

Not sure what that has to do with you beimg able to justify making excuses for one QB's losses and amother's wins but hey, as long as its am entertaining loss, its OK.

I get it.

I do not agree but to each hos own.





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[RugbyMuffin]

Win/lose numbers for a qb is the most overrated stat in pro sports. Qb can’t do it all himself.

Tell Josh Rosen that.

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[Vacard]

Tell Josh Rosen that.

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Bs. Rosen not starting for the Dolphins has nothing to do with his win-lost record. Try again.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Gotcha.

So, you won't pay money to watch Drew Stanton.

Not sure what that has to do with you beimg able to justify making excuses for one QB's losses and amother's wins but hey, as long as its am entertaining loss, its OK.

I get it.

I do not agree but to each hos own.





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Did you watch Stanton play?

I mean, not to be a douche about this, but your argument basically sucks.

The Cardinals defense was significantly better than the Cardinals this year. The context matters.

Stanton made like one or two play a game to win.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Tell Josh Rosen that.

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Yeah let's remove context and actual game film and judge QBs!!!!

 

[Ronin]

Yes wins and losses are what lead to Rosens benching, not his actual play.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Did you watch Stanton play?

I mean, not to be a douche about this, but your argument basically sucks.

The Cardinals defense was significantly better than the Cardinals this year. The context matters.

Stanton made like one or two play a game to win.

Yup.

He won.

The team helped him to those wins.

Its exactly my point.

Murray had games like that and won at least two games where he needed the team to win the game, and he made a few plays to win a game.

Excuses are made for one and not for another.

Just amazed that a player, who came in, did his job and won for this team, is absolutely dragged through the mud.

He doesn't make those one or two plays and they lose.

I will win ugly instead of losing pretty every time.

I can be ultra critical of QB play as well, maybe if Murray could pull off "one or two plays to win the game" more this team would win more. Which is a ridiculous statement, but hey, high standards.


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[RugbyMuffin]

Yeah let's remove context and actual game film and judge QBs!!!!

Well, wins and loses do not mean jack for QB play.

Wonder how long Murray lasts with consecutive 5 win seasons.

"You play to win the game."



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[Krangodnzr]

Yes wins and losses are what lead to Rosens benching, not his actual play.

Its such a silly argument.

If we were talking Tennis, then purely talking wins is a great litmus.

But in team sports, an individual can be better than another but still lose more based on his teammates performance.

The Ravens are still likely a playoff team if Murray is the QB. Stanton? Probably not.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yup.

He won.

The team helped him to those wins.

Its exactly my point.

Murray had games like that and won at least two games where he needed the team to win the game, and he made a few plays to win a game.

Excuses are made for one and not for another.

Just amazed that a player, who came in, did his job and won for this team, is absolutely dragged through the mud.

He doesn't make those one or two plays and they lose.

I will win ugly instead of losing pretty every time.

I can be ultra critical of QB play as well, maybe if Murray could pull off "one or two plays to win the game" more this team would win more. Which is a ridiculous statement, but hey, high standards.


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He is a decent back up.

He would have likely won one game this year.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Yes wins and losses are what lead to Rosens benching, not his actual play.

But, I being told its a team game, the QB cannot do it all by himself and wins and loses do not matter.

Rosen had the worst team, worse than Murray or Stanton.

Was it Rosen's play or the team that was the issue?

If find this all to be ridiculous, to be honest.

A little consistency with judging QB's is all I am getting at.

The constant convenient truth for Murray gets tiresome, since absolves him from any criticisms.

A Kyler Murray loss is better than a Drew Stanton win?

A win when Kyler Murray is carried by the team because he is playing poorly, is better than Drew Stanton win under the same situation?

Come on.

You can even just out "QB A" instead of Stanton if you want.

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[Ronin]

Its such a silly argument.

If we were talking Tennis, then purely talking wins is a great litmus.

But in team sports, an individual can be better than another but still lose more based on his teammates performance.

The Ravens are still likely a playoff team if Murray is the QB. Stanton? Probably not.

Alex Smith is a perfect example of how wins and losses are over rated. He was good but he needed an elite team in order to win.

 

[Solar7]

I don't think anyone is fighting that Stanton is better than Murray. I agree with @RugbyMuffin though - can't make excuses only when it helps your argument and then say "oh well it doesn't count" when those excuses can be made for other players.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The Ravens are still likely a playoff team if Murray is the QB.

I do not see it. Murray cannot run the ball like Lamar Jackson or throw on the run like Lamar Jackson.

At least not yet.

Stanton? Probably not.

Of course not.

But he did his job and won games. If you do not like how he did it, that is fine. Point is he did it. It was butt ugly but he won.


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[Ronin]

But, I being told its a team game, the QB cannot do it all by himself and wins and loses do not matter.

Rosen had the worst team, worse than Murray or Stanton.

Was it Rosen's play or the team that was the issue?

If find this all to be ridiculous, to be honest.

A little consistency with judging QB's is all I am getting at.

The constant convenient truth for Murray gets tiresome, since absolves him from any criticisms.

A Kyler Murray loss is better than a Drew Stanton win?

A win when Kyler Murray is carried by the team because he is playing poorly, is better than Drew Stanton win under the same situation?

Come on.

You can even just out "QB A" instead of Stanton if you want.

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Fitzmagic outplayed Josh this past season. Same team different results. I’m not just talking about just wins and losses.

 

[BW52]

Alex Smith is a perfect example of how wins and losses are over rated. He was good but he needed an elite team in order to win.

So style points count instead of wins now?

 

[Ronin]

So style points count instead of wins now?

Yes stats are for losers.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Alex Smith is a perfect example of how wins and losses are over rated. He was good but he needed an elite team in order to win.

Agreed.

You think Raven fans give a crap Trent Dilfer was the QB when they won the Super Bowl?

He won, and if "anyone could win" with that defense then Elvis Grbac should have a Super Bowl ring.

Which is all way outside the point, of the original argument that if you are going to say the team wins games outside of QB play then that includes Murray and a few of his wins this year.

Those wins count the same as any other QB that just did the minimum of what they needed to do to win games.

To crap on one for the sake of the other is just crazy to me.

If it is so easy then why are there so many QBs that cannot win even with great teams around them?

I can go on. Using the reverse argument, one can say Brett Hundley is starter quality since he is winning with the same team as Kyler Murray.

If your QB makes plays to win games then they are doing their job.

If it was so easy then Rysn Lindley would have a Super Bowl ring.

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[BW52]

Murray showed to be okay IMHO.Did he justify being #1 pick....IMHO nkay 1st round pick but more should be expected from TOP pick IMO..Not saying he can't or won't improve...as a Card fan I hope he does But people thinking he is beyond reproach and infallible make me laugh.He looked damn good and damned bad at times over the season Too many sacks and 12 interceptions and too many dinky dump passes.Could be game plan or could be not wanting to risk a turnover.7 interceptions the last 5 games is concerning .With hard work and coaching maybe he can turn into the QB the hype said he would be.

 

[BW52]

Yes stats are for losers.

Last I looked the NFL counted wins and losses not style points .

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Fitzmagic outplayed Josh this past season. Same team different results. I’m not just talking about just wins and losses.

Yes he did.

But, wins did keep him on the field.

I guess some of us believe Jake Plummer was a great QB surrounded by bad talent and others like myself agree he was entertaining, but I would rather him win a few more games.

I just do not turn my nose up at wins, I guess that is just me.

If a player is part of a team that wins games, I am not looking for his head.

This thread is all about trashing ex-Cardinals who won for this organization, and doing so while propping up a team that won 5.5 games this year.

You can make the case for the current regime without trashing people that provided more wins and success then any before or since.

Whatever.

See it how you all will, and I will keep my perspective. I enjoy allowing myself to think well of teams that actually produced wins and contenders.


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[BW52]

Yes he did.

But, wins did keep him on the field.

I guess some of us believe Jake Plummer was a great QB surrounded by bad talent and others like myself agree he was entertaining, but I would rather him win a few more games.

I just do not turn my nose up at wins, I guess that is just me.

If a player is part of a team that wins games, I am not looking for his head

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Plummer was fun to watch for sure.Jake did have the habit of making a couple of great plays and then throwing a couple of interceptions to kill drives .Murray seems to be more conservative and reluctant to just fire away and damn the torpedoes.

 

[Ronin]

Yes he did.

But, wins did keep him on the field.

I guess some of us believe Jake Plummer was a great QB surrounded by bad talent and others like myself agree he was entertaining, but I would rather him win a few more games.

I just do not turn my nose up at wins, I guess that is just me.

If a player is part of a team that wins games, I am not looking for his head

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I do know because off all the flack that Cousins, Stafford, Cam get for wins and losses.

 

[ajcardfan]

Plummer was fun to watch for sure.Jake did have the habit of making a couple of great plays and then throwing a couple of interceptions to kill drives .Murray seems to be more conservative and reluctant to just fire away and damn the torpedoes.

Jake was a fun QB who could also drive you crazy with the most bone headed turnovers Cardinals QB I have ever seen make. Just as one of literally at least a dozen examples...


He once tried to throw the ball behind his back to avoid a sack and it was caught by a Ravens lineman who scored a TD.

 

[Dback Jon]

Jake was a fun QB who could also drive you crazy with the most bone headed turnovers Cardinals QB I have ever seen make. Just as one of literally at least a dozen examples...


He once tried to throw the ball behind his back to avoid a sack and it was caught by a Ravens lineman who scored a TD.

A Career defining play