OT: Deshaun Watson officially wants out of Houston

[Chris_Sanders]

Just to be clear...you would trade Kyler Murray for 2 firsts and a second?

I don't even care for Kyler Murray that much and he is borderline untradeable for me.

What you are negotiating against is the #2 or #3 pick, plus a high second rounder, plus a future first versus Murray.

 

[Chopper0080]

How people on this board can argue that Kyler Murray is not worth more than what the Lions got for Stafford is beyond me. 9 years younger. 15 mil cheaper. Beat out Stafford for the pro bowl. One of the most exciting players in the NFL.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Flip it...

If Murray is worth say 3 1sts and most of you would happily add a first, then the MINIMUM the Texans are accepting is 4 firsts.

So Murray and a first won't get it done

 

[Chopper0080]

What you are negotiating against is the #2 or #3 pick, plus a high second rounder, plus a future first versus Murray.

Who are completely unproven. I can't tell you what the gap is between Zach Wilson and Justin Fields to that of Sam Darnold and Tua, but whatever it is, it isn't much.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

How people on this board can argue that Kyler Murray is not worth more than what the Lions got for Stafford is beyond me. 9 years younger. 15 mil cheaper. Beat out Stafford for the pro bowl. One of the most exciting players in the NFL.

He is worth more. The picks that the Rams gave up won't be #2 or #3.

Do I have to explain the relative value of draft position or do you just want to be intentionally obtuse more?

 

[Chopper0080]

Flip it...

If Murray is worth say 3 1sts and most of you would happily add a first, then the MINIMUM the Texans are accepting is 4 firsts.

So Murray and a first won't get it done

You are negotiating apples and oranges. 5 pieces of crap does not equal good.

It is like saying it is equal value trading 750,000 $1 basketball cards for a PSA 10 Michael Jordan rookie card. Even though the value is "equal", no one makes that trade.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Literally no one thinks multiple first round picks is "crap" just because they are "unproven"

You just make the entire premise more ludicrous

 

[Chopper0080]

Literally no one thinks multiple first round picks is "crap" just because they are "unproven"

You just make the entire premise more ludicrous

Teams give up multiple first round picks for the "chance" to get a young, dynamic QB... that chance comes with a lot of pot holes and risk. Kyler Murray is the equivalent of giving up two 1sts for that opportunity, one 1st + 3rd for rookie of the year, another 1st for a pro bowl, and then at least a 2nd for the 25 mil they will save over two years.

So, four 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd. That is the value of one of the best QBs in the NFL on a rookie contract.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I like Murray and I would 100% trade him for 4 1sts, a second, and a third, especially if one of the #1s is a top 3.

So you are valuing Watson at 5 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

[Buckybird]

Why is anyone on this board even discussing crap like this? It’s ridiculous

1) a young potential superstar QB in Murray whom has shown for 2 years he has tremendous upside

2) on his rookie deal

3) got better each of his first 2 seasons

4) was in the running for NFL MVP until it appeared Kliff went conservative in his philosophy & made the offense a Checkdown passing game

5) the Cardinals would be fools imo to trade Murray at this point regardless if it’s Watson

6) think of the negativity a trade of a young potential star QB would create nationally & in the Cards locker room

7) dumping a potential stud defender in Simmons after 1 year as well? Lol

It’s not happening whether fans like him or not! This thread is beyond ridiculous imo.

Or some combo of players worth those picks. Like say Murray, Simmons, a first, and a second

 

[Chopper0080]

I like Murray and I would 100% trade him for 4 1sts, a second, and a third, especially if one of the #1s is a top 3.

So you are valuing Watson at 5 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd.

Even if that may be his value, it isn't his value. If it were not for his demand for a trade, Watson would be untouchable. And the thing the Texans want most is to get a top 5 QB back. They want that more than picks, and they want than more than unproven QBs and/or below average QBs. I don't know anyone or have read anything that makes me believe that people in the league believe any of the other QBs offered have the potential to be top 5 Qbs. Kyler Murray is the closest thing that gets the Texans to that place, by far. You could argue he is already a top 10 QB in the league.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am saying their price is too high, not that I would do it.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Even if that may be his value, it isn't his value. If it were not for his demand for a trade, Watson would be untouchable. And the thing the Texans want most is to get a top 5 QB back. They want that more than picks, and they want than more than unproven QBs and/or below average QBs. I don't know anyone or have read anything that makes me believe that people in the league believe any of the other QBs offered have the potential to be top 5 Qbs. Kyler Murray is the closest thing that gets the Texans to that place, by far. You could argue he is already a top 10 QB in the league.

I would only do the trade straight up. I don't think the Texans will take that though, especially from us

 

[Chopper0080]

I like Murray and I would 100% trade him for 4 1sts, a second, and a third, especially if one of the #1s is a top 3.

So you are valuing Watson at 5 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd.

What is funny is that I don't really like Murray (just not my preference), and I am not sure that I would.

 

[Shane]

Why is anyone on this board even discussing crap like this? It’s ridiculous

1) a young potential superstar QB in Murray whom has shown for 2 years he has tremendous upside

2) on his rookie deal

3) got better each of his first 2 seasons

4) was in the running for NFL MVP until it appeared Kliff went conservative in his philosophy & made the offense a Checkdown passing game

5) the Cardinals would be fools imo to trade Murray at this point regardless if it’s Watson

6) think of the negativity a trade of a young potential star QB would create nationally & in the Cards locker room

7) dumping a potential stud defender in Simmons after 1 year as well? Lol

It’s not happening whether fans like him or not! This thread is beyond ridiculous imo.

#5 and #6 are overstated. If you could replace him with DW the locker room negativity would be minimal at best. So would the national scrutiny. He is far and away a better player then KM at this point and still young.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

What is funny is that I don't really like Murray (just not my preference), and I am not sure that I would.

If Keim is drafting then yeah no

 

[kerouac9]

Why is anyone on this board even discussing crap like this? It’s ridiculous

1) a young potential superstar QB in Murray whom has shown for 2 years he has tremendous upside

2) on his rookie deal

3) got better each of his first 2 seasons

4) was in the running for NFL MVP until it appeared Kliff went conservative in his philosophy & made the offense a Checkdown passing game

5) the Cardinals would be fools imo to trade Murray at this point regardless if it’s Watson

6) think of the negativity a trade of a young potential star QB would create nationally & in the Cards locker room

7) dumping a potential stud defender in Simmons after 1 year as well? Lol

It’s not happening whether fans like him or not! This thread is beyond ridiculous imo.

4 is nonsense. He was never seriously in the running for NFL MVP, unless "in the running" means "significantly behind the three or four real candidates".

5 is just your opinion

6 and 7 don't matter as long as the team wins

What is funny is that I don't really like Murray (just not my preference), and I am not sure that I would.

Yeah. It depends. If New England offered you their next 3 years of first-round picks (or their last three, whatever), I'd rather take Murray. That's kind of axiomatic.

As many people have said, the Rams have been smart to mortgage what were essentially high-second round draft picks to pick up proven players who can immediately contribute. How can you tell they're smart? Because they've averaged 12 wins a season and went to the Super Bowl under that strategy.

 

[Russ Smith]

As always late to the punch but are people factoring in that the Texans lost leverage when it was reported Watson is demanding a trade? This is no longer they're looking to see what's out there, this is the guy they are shopping has told them I want to be traded. he can't force it, but it lowers his value because everyone now knows he definitely wants out

I still think it wouldn't even be remotely considered unless Murray went to the Cards and said I would be willing to go to Houston but I do think the minute it was reported Watson definitely wants out, his value went down. Now it will probably go back UP now that Stafford is gone because Watson there's one less legit NFL starter on the trading block

 

[GatorAZ]

As always late to the punch but are people factoring in that the Texans lost leverage when it was reported Watson is demanding a trade? This is no longer they're looking to see what's out there, this is the guy they are shopping has told them I want to be traded. he can't force it, but it lowers his value because everyone now knows he definitely wants out

I still think it wouldn't even be remotely considered unless Murray went to the Cards and said I would be willing to go to Houston but I do think the minute it was reported Watson definitely wants out, his value went down. Now it will probably go back UP now that Stafford is gone because Watson there's one less legit NFL starter on the trading block

Didn’t hurt Detroit. As long as there’s multiple teams interested it doesn’t hurt their leverage.

I don't even think you need the 1st. Kyler Murray would be the closest the Texans could get to a superstar QB and it is not very close.

Here is the thought exercise. How many first round picks would it take for you to trade Kyler Murray for Tua? Sam Darnold? Zach Wilson? Justin Fields? Jimmy G? The answer is essentially his value in a trade.

I think the value would be about even here...

Kyler/#16

Tua/#3/#36 (maybe another late-rd)

I just think the Texans are going to set a precedent if they trade a superstar QB in his prime for a haul for the ages. It also sounds like his agent shot down rumors that he’ll be a no-show for off-season practices.

 

[Chopper0080]

Didn’t hurt Detroit. As long as there’s multiple teams interested it doesn’t hurt their leverage.



I think the value would be about even here...

Kyler/#16

Tua/#3/#36 (maybe another late-rd)

I just think the Texans are going to set a precedent if they trade a superstar QB in his prime for a haul for the ages. It also sounds like his agent shot down rumors that he’ll be a no-show for off-season practices.

Wow. That is essentially saying that Kyler Murray is less valuable than Matthew Stafford which is kinda crazy if you ask me.

 

[GatorAZ]

Wow. That is essentially saying that Kyler Murray is less valuable than Matthew Stafford which is kinda crazy if you ask me.

How? Kyler plus a 1st is three 1st’s when you look at it from a draft value baseline. And I’m still not sure that gets Watson.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Kyler for Watson should be either a: A straight up deal. or b: they should give us capital for taking on more than 40mm in contract value towards the cap in a very bad cap year.

If neither of those things are viable....... We don't even consider a deal.

Kyler is cheaper for 3 more years and that matters in this environment.
Kyler is a legend in Texas. Not huge, but it is a factor.
At his age, Kyler represents the greatest UPSIDE of any offer they might consider except for 4 truly untradeable QB's. Pat, Allen, Lamar, Russ, and I think that's it.

Seriously...... If we gave up Kyler and a 1st rounder..... It would be lunacy.

Watson and a #3 for Kyler and a #2..... Fine. Kyler and a #1 for Watson? no way.

I honestly think it should be Kyler and a #2 for Watson and their next 1st rounder in 2022. Something like that makes more sense to me.

 

[imaCafan]

Kyler for Watson should be either a: A straight up deal. or b: they should give us capital for taking on more than 40mm in contract value towards the cap in a very bad cap year.

If neither of those things are viable....... We don't even consider a deal.

Kyler is cheaper for 3 more years and that matters in this environment.
Kyler is a legend in Texas. Not huge, but it is a factor.
At his age, Kyler represents the greatest UPSIDE of any offer they might consider except for 4 truly untradeable QB's. Pat, Allen, Lamar, Russ, and I think that's it.

Seriously...... If we gave up Kyler and a 1st rounder..... It would be lunacy.

Watson and a #3 for Kyler and a #2..... Fine. Kyler and a #1 for Watson? no way.

I honestly think it should be Kyler and a #2 for Watson and their next 1st rounder in 2022. Something like that makes more sense to me.

Agree 100%!

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler for Watson should be either a: A straight up deal. or b: they should give us capital for taking on more than 40mm in contract value towards the cap in a very bad cap year.

If neither of those things are viable....... We don't even consider a deal.

Kyler is cheaper for 3 more years and that matters in this environment.
Kyler is a legend in Texas. Not huge, but it is a factor.
At his age, Kyler represents the greatest UPSIDE of any offer they might consider except for 4 truly untradeable QB's. Pat, Allen, Lamar, Russ, and I think that's it.

Seriously...... If we gave up Kyler and a 1st rounder..... It would be lunacy.

Watson and a #3 for Kyler and a #2..... Fine. Kyler and a #1 for Watson? no way.

I honestly think it should be Kyler and a #2 for Watson and their next 1st rounder in 2022. Something like that makes more sense to me.

Justin Herbert would like a word.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Justin Herbert would like a word.

I disagree with Herbert. Loved what I saw, but those types of QBs get caught up to. I need atleast one more year of tape before I make that decision.

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