OT: interesting twist on Rams PSL's

[Dback Jon]

If the St. Louis PSL owners still "own" the seats they could sell that PSL to someone from LA, and the St. Louis person would get the money, rather than the Rams getting the PSL license fee.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

If the St. Louis PSL owners still "own" the seats they could sell that PSL to someone from LA, and the St. Louis person would get the money, rather than the Rams getting the PSL license fee.

That is the way I am seeing it.

 

[oaken1]

This is going to be one interesting lawsuit and most certainly there will be a lawsuit.

The way I see it is the PSL is a contract that allows the person holding the PSL the right to purchase tickets to the teams games for that seat. No one else can buy the ticket for that seat unless the holder of the PSL gives up that right. To me that means the PSL is an contract between the person and the team. The team keeps the money that is used to purchase the PSL which to me means the further lends credibility that the contract is between the team and the buyer. Since the original buyer can sell the PSL it would seem that the original buyer owns the right to that seat under an contract with the team.

If the contract doesn't mention a specific location for that PSL then it seems reasonable that no mater where the team is located the original buyer would still hold the rights to the seat. Now in order to retain the seat I imagine the owner of the PSL would have to purchase the tickets for that seat each and every season in order to maintain control of it. Not sure how many St Louis PSL holders would be willing to spend money on seats they would not use unless there is a monetary advantage which would be the team having to buy the PSL back from the owner at a price that exceeds the cost of a season ticket. Of course if enough of them did it, the team would be losing ancillary revenue by having a bunch of empty seats in the new location.

If a judge rules that the PSL is indeed a contract I don't see how the team can just cancel the contract without having to buy the PSLs back form the owners.

but...technically the team can circumvent this by using a totally different numbering system for their new stadium couldn't they?

say,...you have a pSL for section 225 Row 6 Seat 15

if the new stadium is all..... section AA1052............then section 225 PSL's are no longer an issue. The St Louie fans will still own their PSL's,...but to seats that no longer exist

 

[Fiasco]

but...technically the team can circumvent this by using a totally different numbering system for their new stadium couldn't they?

say,...you have a pSL for section 225 Row 6 Seat 15

if the new stadium is all..... section AA1052............then section 225 PSL's are no longer an issue. The St Louie fans will still own their PSL's,...but to seats that no longer exist

If a lawsuit comes to pass and is won, I would think that would put the Rams on the hook for punitive damages as well.

 

[cardpa]

but...technically the team can circumvent this by using a totally different numbering system for their new stadium couldn't they?

say,...you have a pSL for section 225 Row 6 Seat 15

if the new stadium is all..... section AA1052............then section 225 PSL's are no longer an issue. The St Louie fans will still own their PSL's,...but to seats that no longer exist

I don't think that would fly with a judge.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Ask the 49er fans about PSL's. They are trying to sell them...there is a glut of them for sale on the market. It's flat out dumb unless it's for the Packers.

 

[Rivercard]

It's all speculation unless we can see the fine print. But if the contract doesn't have an out clause of some sort that governs this situation, it could be a very interesting class-action lawsuit.

Good point. The Rams have been planning this move for a loooong time, so if the fine print does not include language to address this issue then Kroenke should fire his lawyers.

 

[Azlen]

Good point. The Rams have been planning this move for a loooong time, so if the fine print does not include language to address this issue then Kroenke should fire his lawyers.

That could depend on when the PSL's were purchased and what the language was at the time. I'm sure there are still a few PSL owners who purchased them when the Rams were playing at Busch stadium. Those have already been transferred to a new stadium once. If they changed the language it should only apply to those PSL's that were purchased after the language change.

 

[splitsecond]

Ask the 49er fans about PSL's. They are trying to sell them...there is a glut of them for sale on the market. It's flat out dumb unless it's for the Packers.

My buddy's dad sold his PSL's for the Steelers when he moved to Vegas and used the money for the down payment on his house. I want to say he got around 10k for them, but I could be wrong.

I am willing to bet this is a real issue otherwise it wouldn't even be talked about. The ONLY thing that will save the Rams is if there was a specific clause that states the PSL's automatically terminate if the team moves to a new location. And would people really buy them if they had to agree to that? I wouldn't.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

My buddy's dad sold his PSL's for the Steelers when he moved to Vegas and used the money for the down payment on his house. I want to say he got around 10k for them, but I could be wrong.

I am willing to bet this is a real issue otherwise it wouldn't even be talked about. The ONLY thing that will save the Rams is if there was a specific clause that states the PSL's automatically terminate if the team moves to a new location. And would people really buy them if they had to agree to that? I wouldn't.

This is key...As someone else already pointed out, when their PSL's were 1st offered, it was in the old Busch Stadium, because the dome wasn't finished in time...So, if they transferred stadiums then, the precedent may already be set. I'm sure the same thing would be happening in LA, too...Won't they try to sell PSL's for the LA Coliseum, and then have them transfer to the new stadium in 3 years? Is that the plan? If this thing in St. Louis gets ugly, which I think it will, it may impact Kreonke's LA PSL plan.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

This is key...As someone else already pointed out, when their PSL's were 1st offered, it was in the old Busch Stadium, because the dome wasn't finished in time...So, if they transferred stadiums then, the precedent may already be set. I'm sure the same thing would be happening in LA, too...Won't they try to sell PSL's for the LA Coliseum, and then have them transfer to the new stadium in 3 years? Is that the plan? If this thing in St. Louis gets ugly, which I think it will, it may impact Kreonke's LA PSL plan.

Could not happen to a nicer guy. Brian Burwell, sports writer for the St. Louis post dispatch who died a few years ago, wrote an article about Kroenke when he was trying to buy controlling interest in the Rams after Frontierre died. Said he was the type of person you could not trust and only cares about is himself and how much money he makes. Turns out he was right.

 

[oaken1]

the value of the franchise is expected to jump about 2 billion isn't it?? Make the guy give the money back.

 

[USAFMEDIC]

I read that the PSLs state "anywhere the Rams play through 2025". If so, Kroenke is in a fix. Would be funny if 50,000 PSL holders in St Louis all sold their PSL seats to LA fans for like a buck a piece. I am glad the Cards have a great stadium and a great team.

 

[oaken1]

I read that the PSLs state "anywhere the Rams play through 2025". If so, Kroenke is in a fix. Would be funny if 50,000 PSL holders in St Louis all sold their PSL seats to LA fans for like a buck a piece. I am glad the Cards have a great stadium and a great team.

be even funnier if they keep their psl and buy no tickets

 

[BillsCarnage]

PSL's are a scam to begin with. Yet another reason Micheal is an awesome owner.

Class action filed today - http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_0d6e239f-639a-5d95-b20e-14e514e074e9.html

According to the agreement that one of the plaintiffs received with purchase of the PSL, in the case that the Rams do not play at the normal St. Louis stadium, the Rams “will use its best efforts to assure Licensee the right to purchase, on a pro rata priority basis, tickets for seats in the stadium where the transferred games are played.”

The PSL agreement also states that the Rams reserve the right to terminate the agreement and refund “part or all” of a PSL holder’s deposit.

Should get interesting.

be even funnier if they keep their psl and buy no tickets

They can't. The PSL owner has to buy tickets or they lose the PSL.

 

[pemory09]

Apparently the Rams played a few games at Busch Stadium prior to moving into their facility. So the PSL's have already transferred from one venue to another.

Yes, I recall watching one of their early games there and it was at Busch. In fact, there's some footage of their first StL game at

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

You can clearly see it's at Busch Stadium beginning at the 1-minute mark.

 

[splitsecond]

Could not happen to a nicer guy. Brian Burwell, sports writer for the St. Louis post dispatch who died a few years ago, wrote an article about Kroenke when he was trying to buy controlling interest in the Rams after Frontierre died. Said he was the type of person you could not trust and only cares about is himself and how much money he makes. Turns out he was right.

Look I get this, but what the hell was Georgia Frontiere? Nothing but a ****** who cycled through 6 husbands, inherited a team she didn't deserve, and moved the team for her own benefit. I get that people loved her because of the Super Bowl but what she did to LA was AT LEAST as bad as what Kroenke just did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AZCrazy]

We can only hope and pray the as the Cardinals become more routinely successful, that the Bidwills don't turn on the fans, and get into the idea of PSL's to generate another layer of revenue.

The very idea is preposterous. "You must pay us $20,000 first, to have the right to pay us thousands more dollars to buy a ticket from us" Can't even believe it's legal, especially in a publicly funded stadium. Seems like the fans already paid for those seats to exist. The team should have to pay back the public funding by giving back money for each ticket sold, not the other way around.


Imaging paying $10,000 to buy a PSL for the Rams last year, then you got to buy 8 tickets, and the team left town and your license was now worthless?

 

[Cardsfanstl]

I read that the PSLs state "anywhere the Rams play through 2025". If so, Kroenke is in a fix. Would be funny if 50,000 PSL holders in St Louis all sold their PSL seats to LA fans for like a buck a piece. I am glad the Cards have a great stadium and a great team.

From what I have heard 4 PSL holders here in St. Louis have filed suit against the Rams to have the right to either 1) sell the PSL to a person in LA because by contract they can sell to anybody at market value (market value has gone up since the move) or 2) the right to purchase season tickets in LA.

By both of these means Kroenke receives no money for the PSL's which he touted at the owner's meeting as way to generate income for the project. They are trying to get more PSL people involved so it can be a class action lawsuit.

 

[Hollywood]

From what I have heard 4 PSL holders here in St. Louis have filed suit against the Rams to have the right to either 1) sell the PSL to a person in LA because by contract they can sell to anybody at market value (market value has gone up since the move) or 2) the right to purchase season tickets in LA.

By both of these means Kroenke receives no money for the PSL's which he touted at the owner's meeting as way to generate income for the project. They are trying to get more PSL people involved so it can be a class action lawsuit.

I can't imagine that anyone wouldnt want in on that lawsuit.

This was sent from my cell pjone so please excise any typeos or other errors.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Said he was the type of person you could not trust and only cares about is himself and how much money he makes.

So was Frontiere.

I heard Rams players diss her when they were in Anaheim.

 

[USAFMEDIC]

Georgia would have probably stayed if LA had ponied up with some stadium money. She left LA for the same reason the Big Red left St Louis. Being a renter of a baseball stadium.

 

[TheHopToad]

Here's an interview with Kroenke the day the team moved to St. Louis. He was all about the PSLs since before the team even played a game there. And you can tell he was not sold on St. Louis from the beginning. When asked if he thought St. Louis was really a good market, he said "It would be interesting if the fans prove that to be true".

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[USAFMEDIC]

They sold out for years in St Louis. Just a crappy product which will not change in LA. Five years from now Big Red fans will take over Kroenkeville. That will great for the Cards.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

We can only hope and pray the as the Cardinals become more routinely successful, that the Bidwills don't turn on the fans, and get into the idea of PSL's to generate another layer of revenue.

The very idea is preposterous. "You must pay us $20,000 first, to have the right to pay us thousands more dollars to buy a ticket from us" Can't even believe it's legal, especially in a publicly funded stadium. Seems like the fans already paid for those seats to exist. The team should have to pay back the public funding by giving back money for each ticket sold, not the other way around.


Imaging paying $10,000 to buy a PSL for the Rams last year, then you got to buy 8 tickets, and the team left town and your license was now worthless?

Agreed.