OT - Josh Howard Doesn't Celebrate National Anthem
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TucsonDevil
Good to be back!
I'm shocked! There is an athlete that doesn't know what the National Anthem is about, or respects those that gave their lives and liberty so he can play ball? I am just shocked...
I feel dumber.
Free speech is ok, but the constant disrespecting the country that is being spread around is BULL **** especially with a war going on and men and women dying for our freedom. Ignorant *****. I'm so glad Colangelo set a standard for our Suns from way back that they would be class guys.
"I'm black I don't celebrate that ****"
What exactly does that mean?
I didn't know being black was another nation.
Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
You mean that **** right there???
That **** being our National Anthem, the anthem of our nation, the one he lives in and plays a game and makes millions. It is time to kick that attitude out of the country.
What exactly does that mean?
I didn't know being black was another nation.
Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
You mean that **** right there???
That **** being our National Anthem, the anthem of our nation, the one he lives in and plays a game and makes millions. It is time to kick that attitude out of the country.
elindholm
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Believing in the principles of this country means supporting free speech, even if the reasons given for dissenting views seem ignorant, bizarre, or uninformed.
Save your outrage for something that matters.
Save your outrage for something that matters.
OP
OP
AZ Sports Native
It's a dry heat.
I find it to be a bit condescending to tell people what they should and should not be outraged about. JMHO
devilalum
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Absolutely.
Why is it that everyone seems to have their own rules about what freedom should look like.
Yep.
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Are you kidding me? Seriously, Josh Howard not celebrating the national anthem is worth getting upset over? You're right, you can get upset and be outraged at whatever you wish, but if you were to do so every time someone disrespects the national anthem, you're going to live your whole life upset. Elindholm wasn't telling you how to think, he was suggesting you spare your outrage for something more important. Granted people differ on what's important to them, but I don't think he was going out on a limb by assuming that most people don't worry about Josh Howard's patriotism all day.
I know it's summer and we've got a little while longer until the season, but this thread sucks.
What on Earth are you talking about? Being free means being free to do something thats dumb, something that others don't agree with. If Howard doesn't want to participate in the anthem, he doesn't have to, thats what makes this country great.
What does being in an (unconstitutional) war have to do with anything? Do you really think there's troops in Iraq who are in a tense situation, being fired at, and are thinking "geez, I'd feel a lot safer right now if only Josh Howard would sing the Star Spangled Banner"?
Furthermore, there's no one in Iraq "dying for our freedom" and if you really think that you don't know much about world affairs. Their dying for American hegemony, for a perceived goal of a more pro American middle east, et cetera, but I hardly see how Iraq ever threatened Americas freedom.
elindholm
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No, of course not. Just as there is no problem with my trying to help you find some perspective.
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elindholm
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Nail on the head
That's ok someone is already looking out for you and the rest of Americans safety from all threats, even if you can't see them yet.
Wow, you're not the brightest fellow. Please tell me how fighting in Iraq is fighting for America's 'freedom'? There were no WMD's there, no connection with Al Qaeda, et cetera. We went there because its a NeoCon policy to spread Democracy with force. I don't happen to think thats a good policy, but if you do, just be honest about it, quit lying to yourself and others and saying the war is about 'freedom'.
I never said, nor implied that being against the anthem makes this nation great. Clearly your reading skills are poor at best. What I DID say, was that having the freedom to do your own thing, and acting on that freedom is what makes this country great.
Again, how does Josh Howard, or anyone, singing or not singing the National Anthem in anyway effect anyone in Iraq? How does it effect anyone anywhere? Its his choice, I think his reasoning is silly, but its his choice.
And maybe I will burn a flag, just like Penn and Teller do in their act, because burning a flag can be very patriotic. (don't believe me, linkaid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF2iX2VG6e4)
I never said, nor implied that being against the anthem makes this nation great. Clearly your reading skills are poor at best. What I DID say, was that having the freedom to do your own thing, and acting on that freedom is what makes this country great.
Again, how does Josh Howard, or anyone, singing or not singing the National Anthem in anyway effect anyone in Iraq? How does it effect anyone anywhere? Its his choice, I think his reasoning is silly, but its his choice.
And maybe I will burn a flag, just like Penn and Teller do in their act, because burning a flag can be very patriotic. (don't believe me, linkaid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF2iX2VG6e4)
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Who is someone? I fear the neo-cons. I don't care if you wrap yourself in the American flag, sing the national anthem every day and declare everyone who voices dissent as unpatriotic. Our country's founders and men in uniform died for the right of Americans to have freedom of speech as established by our constitution. It reminds me of a quote from George Washington:
"If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
Let's keep to sports. If you don't like what Josh Howard said leave it alone. Personally, I couldn't stand the video and would have turned it off after about 5 seconds if you had not made an issue of it.
I'm for freedom of speech.
Just making an example here, not talking about anyone's specific family ok:
Say your mom and dad lookout for your welfare, safety and give you a home, food and you help with chores (work a little) etc. But you believe you can say bad things about them, call them bad names, and act out against them symbolically(flip them off etc.) because of freedom of speech. Do they have the right to do or say anything to stop you, or should they just take it from you until they die?
I believe you have freedom of speech but I also have that right. If what you say with your freedom is offensive, in my opinion, my freedom of speech gives me the right to tell you so and why.
Josh Howard's comment is offensive IMO. But like elindholm said why should I care about what the Josh Howards do? I'll just be angry and frustrated. I guess he is right, but I'm just letting everyone know that I'm not silently agreeing with Josh Howard.
If enough people let Josh Howard know that they think he is way off base with that comment maybe he would rethink his opinion.
I couldn't be a fan of Josh Howard if he was on the Suns now.
Ok Mainstreet on with basketball.
and I am looking up neo-cons.
Just making an example here, not talking about anyone's specific family ok:
Say your mom and dad lookout for your welfare, safety and give you a home, food and you help with chores (work a little) etc. But you believe you can say bad things about them, call them bad names, and act out against them symbolically(flip them off etc.) because of freedom of speech. Do they have the right to do or say anything to stop you, or should they just take it from you until they die?
I believe you have freedom of speech but I also have that right. If what you say with your freedom is offensive, in my opinion, my freedom of speech gives me the right to tell you so and why.
Josh Howard's comment is offensive IMO. But like elindholm said why should I care about what the Josh Howards do? I'll just be angry and frustrated. I guess he is right, but I'm just letting everyone know that I'm not silently agreeing with Josh Howard.
If enough people let Josh Howard know that they think he is way off base with that comment maybe he would rethink his opinion.
I couldn't be a fan of Josh Howard if he was on the Suns now.
Ok Mainstreet on with basketball.
and I am looking up neo-cons.
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"It is time to kick that attitude out of the country."
how can one reconcile believing in freedom and wanting someone kicked out of the country for excersising that freedom?
elindholm
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Well obviously this is a pretty strained analogy, since parents have certain legal responsibilities to their children. Yes, until the child is approximately 18, the parents just have to suck it up and take it. They could, of course, attempt to mold their child's behavior through various kinds of reinforcement.
Once the child is an adult, the parents can do whatever they want. If I had an ungrateful, hostile, incorrigible child -- which mercifully I do not -- I don't know how I would handle it once that child was grown up. But I do know that I wouldn't feel bound by patriotism to act one way or the other.
That attitude meaning simply that attitude (like opinion) I would like to see removed from the country.
Not "that attitude" meaning specifically Josh "that attitude" Howard.
This is really simple, if you want to bad mouth the country and claim it is your right with freedom of speech. I'll tell you what I think using my freedom of speech. I am for freedom of speech. Are you if you say I have no right to comment on what you say? Ordinarily I don't even care but if it is offensive to me then why not say so?
Does it offend you that I say, what you said, offends me? You want the right to keep saying it. I want the same right.
