OT- The home run record? 37? 73?

[Ronin]

Good points made in this article. As Stanton chases history.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20405348/73-61-37-real-home-run-record-anyway

 

[Bert]

Good points made in this article. As Stanton chases history.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20405348/73-61-37-real-home-run-record-anyway

Very interesting article. He didn't mention that Sosa was also caught using a corked bat. Barry Bonds and Big Mac are among those lucky guys who hit drastic growth spurts in their 30's lol.

IMO the true record is still 61.

 

[Ronin]

Very interesting article. He didn't mention that Sosa was also caught using a corked bat. Barry Bonds and Big Mac are among those lucky guys who hit drastic growth spurts in their 30's lol.

IMO the true record is still 61.

Silly thing is that Barry Bonds did not need to use cream and the clear. Stopid move on his part

 

[Ronin]

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[GatorAZ]

Bonds... The GOAT.

 

[BC867]

Bonds... The GOAT.

Bonds... the GOAT-WS. With steroids, that is. It is why he, and McGwire and Sosa, are not in the HOF.

Ironic that a "goat" in sports is a loser. They sure were!

I hate the Yankees with a passion, but the records of Ruth (doubling and tripling everyone else's figures in a 154 game schedule) and Maris (in a 162 game schedule) are the legitimate single season HR records. As well as Hack Wilson's 56 in the National League (154 game schedule). Everything else has an *, whether due to schedule or especially to steroids.

 

[AZCrazy]

Bonds didn't need to juice, and that is the sad thing. He was great already.
Tell you what though - never ever saw a more feared hitter than Bonds in 2001. Never saw anyone who was intentionally walked over a hundred times in one season, even with the bases loaded. Every time he stepped to the plate, everyone knew he was going to hit a home run and most of the time they were right. It was absurd, and not all of it came from roids. That involves some alien level of skill.

 

[GatorAZ]

Bonds didn't need to juice, and that is the sad thing. He was great already.
Tell you what though - never ever saw a more feared hitter than Bonds in 2001. Never saw anyone who was intentionally walked over a hundred times in one season, even with the bases loaded. Every time he stepped to the plate, everyone knew he was going to hit a home run and most of the time they were right. It was absurd, and not all of it came from roids. That involves some alien level of skill.

—If Bonds were to return to the major leagues tomorrow, he would have to make 1,412 straight outs to drop his on base percentage below .400.

—Bonds hit Randy Johnson for a 1.003 OPS in 62 plate appearances; no other left-handed hitter with 50 PAs did better than .888, and left-handers overall hit .199/.278/.294.

—Bonds made 85 fewer outs than Ken Griffey Jr. did in 1,302 more plate appearances.

--Bonds reached base just 330 fewer times than all-time leader Pete Rose, in 3,284 fewer plate appearances.

—If you turned every home run Bonds ever hit into an out, his career on base percentage would be .384, the same as Alex Rodriguez's.

--Bonds was once walked with the bases loaded

--Bonds was intentionally walked with the bases empty 41 times

--Bonds drew 688 intentional walks in his career. There are 49 Hall of Fame position players who drew fewer walks of any kind in their entire careers.

—Bonds hit .333/.488/.576 against Pedro Martínez in 43 plate appearances; only Luis Gonzalez hit him better.

—Bonds stole 340 bases through age 30; Derek Jeter has stolen 355 in his career.

http://deadsp.in/TCExFVC

 

[Bert]

- Bonds averaged 31 HR per season prior to 2000
- Bonds averaged 52 HR per season from 2001-2005
- Bonds career high of 73 HR is 24 more than his 2nd best season of 49 (2000)


He was really good, then he started REALLY cheating and that's when he started breaking records. I refuse to be impressed by walks that were given because EVERYBODY knew he was juicing and could hit anything out of the park.


Not saying he was never good. He was a HOF player most likely without Roids, but why should I recognize any of the HR records when he was CLEARLY cheating? I dont recognize Sosa or Mcguire, why should Barry be any different?

If you wanna talk about BB the hitter or BB the baserunner prior to 2000, I'm down, but as far as I'm concerned 2000+ BB is a completely different player that should have a big fat asterisk next to it.

Then again, Mantle used a corked bat and Babe did enough coke to kill an elephant and non-white people weren't allowed to play yet. So who's to say which BS records count and which ones dont. lol

 

[TJ]

Virtually everyone was juiced during the Bonds era. Consider that the others who juiced were leveling the playing field, not so much trying to get a leg-up. I knew in 98, McGwire and Sosa were roided up, and I didn't give a poo. I loved watching homers. In all honesty, roids saved baseball after the strike.

 

[Bert]

Virtually everyone was juiced during the Bonds era. Consider that the others who juiced were leveling the playing field, not so much trying to get a leg-up. I knew in 98, McGwire and Sosa were roided up, and I didn't give a ****. I loved watching homers. In all honesty, roids saved baseball after the strike.

I admit, the McGuire vs. Sosa race was a blast. I enjoyed that, but I didn't give a crap about Bonds by the time he made his run. It was clear they were all friggin cheaters and none of them deserved my attention. I dont like HR's that much. Plus I hate the Giants, so eff that whole situation. lol

 

[GatorAZ]

- Bonds averaged 31 HR per season prior to 2000
- Bonds averaged 52 HR per season from 2001-2005
- Bonds career high of 73 HR is 24 more than his 2nd best season of 49 (2000)


He was really good, then he started REALLY cheating and that's when he started breaking records. I refuse to be impressed by walks that were given because EVERYBODY knew he was juicing and could hit anything out of the park.


Not saying he was never good. He was a HOF player most likely without Roids, but why should I recognize any of the HR records when he was CLEARLY cheating? I dont recognize Sosa or Mcguire, why should Barry be any different?

If you wanna talk about BB the hitter or BB the baserunner prior to 2000, I'm down, but as far as I'm concerned 2000+ BB is a completely different player that should have a big fat asterisk next to it.

Then again, Mantle used a corked bat and Babe did enough coke to kill an elephant and non-white people weren't allowed to play yet. So who's to say which BS records count and which ones dont. lol

His walks are the ultimate stat and sign of respect. Bonds led the 90's in walks and intentional walks.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...am=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=14,d

 

[Bert]

His walks are the ultimate stat and sign of respect. Bonds led the 90's in walks and intentional walks.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...am=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=14,d

Like I said, he was a great player, but that wasn't enough for him. He wanted to be the GREATEST, he saw everyone else was doing it so he was like; if you cant beat em join em... THen he became LEGEND and THE GREATEST.

Like I said in my other post, it's hard to sift through which "cheating" is the worst. Mantle played with a corked bat. They know cuz they X-rayed one of his cooperstown bats and what do you know, it's corked! So maybe he's no worse than Mickey.


It's a mess. I say lets just let everybody do all the PED's they want and let's just see what happens lol.


Anyways I dont want to seem like a BB hater. I actually was a fan for years when he was with the pirates. Then he went to the Giants and gained 400lbs of muscle, his arms and head swelled and I was like hmmmm... Something about this seems off. He was a HOF player, but then he went to the dark side and that's the only reason he has the HR record. However, if you take the HRs away, I'd still put him in the HOF. I think that should be the most sobering thing for Barry. We loved you as a player, we didn't need you to become the incredible HULK to hit HR's, we already loved you.

 

[GatorAZ]

Virtually everyone was juiced during the Bonds era. Consider that the others who juiced were leveling the playing field, not so much trying to get a leg-up. I knew in 98, McGwire and Sosa were roided up, and I didn't give a ****. I loved watching homers. In all honesty, roids saved baseball after the strike.

MLB didn't test for amphetamines until 04' and ex-players players said "greenies" were next to the sunflower seeds for decades. Mays and Aaron admitted to using them but played it off as a one time thing once the stigma came around.

I don't really care either way but most hall of famers probably used something. If Cal Ripken Jr admitted using pharmaceutical grade stimulates during "the streak" I wouldn't think anything of it.

 

[GatorAZ]

Like I said, he was a great player, but that wasn't enough for him. He wanted to be the GREATEST, he saw everyone else was doing it so he was like; if you cant beat em join em... THen he became LEGEND and THE GREATEST.

Like I said in my other post, it's hard to sift through which "cheating" is the worst. Mantle played with a corked bat. They know cuz they X-rayed one of his cooperstown bats and what do you know, it's corked! So maybe he's no worse than Mickey.


It's a mess. I say lets just let everybody do all the PED's they want and let's just see what happens lol.


Anyways I dont want to seem like a BB hater. I actually was a fan for years when he was with the pirates. Then he went to the Giants and gained 400lbs of muscle, his arms and head swelled and I was like hmmmm... Something about this seems off. He was a HOF player, but then he went to the dark side and that's the only reason he has the HR record. However, if you take the HRs away, I'd still put him in the HOF. I think that should be the most sobering thing for Barry. We loved you as a player, we didn't need you to become the incredible HULK to hit HR's, we already loved you.

He saw how other guys extended their careers and started using the "cream and clear" in 99' (according to Game of Shadows). I'm glad he did b/c you saw a player that already had super human skill given super human powers. Baseball didn't give a crap about it until Canseco blew the doors off everything.

 

[Brian]

For me, Bonds is the ultimate poster boy for cheating. I don't accept or acknowledge ANYTHING he did after he roided up.

The record is still 61.

I'm not impressed when a 14 year old goes yard if the pitcher is 8 years old and that's essentially what Bonds did. He gave himself artificial abilities that not everyone he played with/against could have if they too didn't cheat.

I admire what guys do with their God-given abilities. I'm not impressed by what guys do with artificial ones.

 

[Brian]

Virtually everyone was juiced during the Bonds era. Consider that the others who juiced were leveling the playing field, not so much trying to get a leg-up. I knew in 98, McGwire and Sosa were roided up, and I didn't give a ****. I loved watching homers. In all honesty, roids saved baseball after the strike.

No. They weren't. That's the problem. If they ALL did it, then no problem. When only a percentage does, it's cheating.

 

[GatorAZ]

Players back to the 60's have admitted using pharma grade drugs. Baseball didn't test for HGH or amphetamines until 2004. Again, baseball didn't give a sh*t so why should we? Amazing how Selig is viewed as the man who cleaned up baseball LOL.

 

[DWKB]

Bonds was a HOF and the best player in the game before he ever enhanced his body. He saw the reaction and attention of lesser players like McGwire and Sosa in 1998 and the lack of repercussions for their enhanced production so he joined in. Once he did and made a mockery of the game the backlash hit.

Bonds is a villain to many people, but he was one of the best players in baseball history, with or without the "juice".

 

[DWKB]

No. They weren't. That's the problem. If they ALL did it, then no problem. When only a percentage does, it's cheating.

What if that percentage was at 85%?

 

[Brian]

What if that percentage was at 85%?

Then that would without a doubt change how I view that era. I don't believe the usage at the Major League level was around 85%.

Of course, I have a very tainted view of the 2001 WS. I believe in the Game 7 matchup, there was a roided up Clemens on the mound for the Yankees, and a roided up Luis Gonzales faced a clean Mariano Rivera in the 9th.

 

[Brian]

Bonds was a HOF and the best player in the game before he ever enhanced his body. He saw the reaction and attention of lesser players like McGwire and Sosa in 1998 and the lack of repercussions for their enhanced production so he joined in. Once he did and made a mockery of the game the backlash hit.

Bonds is a villain to many people, but he was one of the best players in baseball history, with or without the "juice".

COMPLETELY agree. I think that summary pretty much nails it.

 

[devilalum]

Very interesting article. He didn't mention that Sosa was also caught using a corked bat. Barry Bonds and Big Mac are among those lucky guys who hit drastic growth spurts in their 30's lol.

IMO the true record is still 61.

In 154 games.

 

[Dude]

Bonds was a HOF and the best player in the game before he ever enhanced his body. He saw the reaction and attention of lesser players like McGwire and Sosa in 1998 and the lack of repercussions for their enhanced production so he joined in. Once he did and made a mockery of the game the backlash hit.

Bonds is a villain to many people, but he was one of the best players in baseball history, with or without the "juice".

Bonds was a villain because he was also one of the biggest a holes to ever play the game.

 

[Dude]

In 154 games.

I don't go there. A season is a season. They didn't face the pitching we have today ether.