Our Defense is not really much better...

[High Stakes]

The only reason teams are scoring less than in previous years is because of number of shots/possessions....With D'Antoni's run and gun teams were averaging 12 more shots a game against us...if you shoot 50% thats another 12 points...so in essense our defense is not that much better....just thought i would point that out...

 

[Griffin]

The only reason teams are scoring less than in previous years is because of number of shots/possessions....With D'Antoni's run and gun teams were averaging 12 more shots a game against us...if you shoot 50% thats another 12 points...so in essense our defense is not that much better....just thought i would point that out...

Statistically, our defense is pretty much the same as last year. We allow 7.1 fewer points per game, but we score 10.1 fewer points per game ourselves than last season. We allow 44.3% FG (14th best) to last year's 45.6 (13th best). Our point differential is obviously down from 5.1 (7th best) to 2.1 (12th best) due to the inconsistent offense, although we are again leading the league in field goal percentage.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think that paints the entire picure. For instance the Suns were #25 (one of the worst in the NBA) at preventing points in the paint just a couple years ago.

Now we are giving up fewer points at the Center and Power Forward positions then in the past. It appears we are giving up MORE points now at the guard positions (shooting guard being the worst) then in the past.

Better is still better and it's a work in progress. We seem to be protecting the paint much better but giving up more outside shots then ever before. If we could figure out how to do both....things would be really good.

 

[mojorizen7]

There is no statistic for difficulty of shots allowed for opponents(quality shot attempts given up).
If there was,the SUNS defense under the former regime would be ranked at the bottom....or at the top depending on the ranking system LOL. The SUNS are contesting shots this season at least....and like Steel Dog referred to, points in the paint given up are WAY down....and when you give up a ton of points in the paint you give up more "and ones" resulting in 3 pt play's that don't reflect in the final box score under FG%.

 

[DarlinG]

The only reason teams are scoring less than in previous years is because of number of shots/possessions....With D'Antoni's run and gun teams were averaging 12 more shots a game against us...if you shoot 50% thats another 12 points...so in essense our defense is not that much better....just thought i would point that out...

better rebounding -> allow fewer possesions against the Suns -> allow less scoring -> improved defense

worse turn-over -> allow more possesions -> allow more scoring -> not improved defense

What you missed are rebounding and turn-overs. better rebounding somewhat contributed to fewer opponents' possesion. And again, the Suns allow more second chance points by turn-overs. if the Suns can control their turn-over margin less than 2(currently 4.5? 4.6?), the opponent PPG will be reduced by 2 or 3 points.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Like Darlin mentioned, turnovers are why the numbers arent showing our defensive improvements. Observing the games are a clear indicator that we are getting more stops and forcing harder shots than last year. Proof is in the game, not the numbers.


STOP TURNING THE BALL OVER!!!11

 

[cly2tw]

Turnovers often lead to easy baskets against us, screwing up the def. shooting percentage a lot.
We gotta wait till the offense is in ok shape before judging on defense by stats.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

See guys, the best defense IS a good offense!

- Mike _antoni

 

[mojorizen7]

See guys, the best defense IS a good offense!

- Mike _antoni

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[Cheesebeef]

we're only averaging 2 more turnovers per game. that's not that big of a difference guys.

 

[DarlinG]

we're only averaging 2 more turnovers per game. that's not that big of a difference guys.

but our turnover margin this year is 4.5, which was 1.0 last year.


2008-2009 Suns average turnovers per game: 16.7
2008-2009 Opp. average turnovers per game: 12.2

2007-2008 Suns average turnovers per game: 14.4
2007-2008 Opp. average turnovers per game: 13.4

 

[Maligzar]

There is no statistic for difficulty of shots allowed for opponents(quality shot attempts given up).
If there was,the SUNS defense under the former regime would be ranked at the bottom....or at the top depending on the ranking system LOL. The SUNS are contesting shots this season at least....and like Steel Dog referred to, points in the paint given up are WAY down....and when you give up a ton of points in the paint you give up more "and ones" resulting in 3 pt play's that don't reflect in the final box score under FG%.

In a pure D'Antoni system it doesn't matter how many quality shots you give up because you are saying that your offense, given equal possessions, will outscore their offense. Problems happen like last season when you try to tweak it by replacing a key cog to your scoring machine wtih a major changing cog to the way your offense works.

Like Darlin mentioned, turnovers are why the numbers arent showing our defensive improvements. Observing the games are a clear indicator that we are getting more stops and forcing harder shots than last year. Proof is in the game, not the numbers.

What is not being mentioned is that our new commitment to defense is forces us into a constant half-court set. A style of play that our team is not built to run; which is why we're constantly turning the ball over. This is like running a Ferrari on a dirt road because it's a 3 mile road instead of the 5 mile long way around. Not considering that the Ferarri will cover 5 miles on pavement faster than 3 miles on dirt.

 

[shazaam6]

Showtime Lakers had the running game with a halfcourt game.

 

[Maligzar]

Showtime Lakers had the running game with a halfcourt game.

Let's hope that the Suns aren't trying to re-create this format because they don't have the talent to pull it off.

 

[Covert Rain]

we're only averaging 2 more turnovers per game. that's not that big of a difference guys.

It is when last years turnover margin wasn't good either. The turnover problem started last year and continued to this year. If this team could average 4 or 5 less turnovers per game that would be a huge boost.

 

[Maligzar]

It is when last years turnover margin wasn't good either. The turnover problem started last year and continued to this year. If this team could average 4 or 5 less turnovers per game that would be a huge boost.

Additionally, when you have a 7 seconds or less offense it allows you to turn the ball over more often; because you live and die with runs.

 

[cly2tw]

Additionally, when you have a 7 seconds or less offense it allows you to turn the ball over more often; because you live and die with runs.

So, with slower pace, the increase in turnover feels more severe than the number of just 2 more.

And as Steeldog said, turnover jumped already last year, which suggests that we already started having this problem with DA or even without Shaq, maybe as a consequence of Nash aging or the whole league figuring him much better out or a combination thereof. The more actually do we have reason to ask Nash to reinvent himself a la Stockton.

 

[DeAnna]

The more actually do we have reason to ask Nash to reinvent himself a la Stockton.

LoL, with all due respect, do you really think that's gonna happen? at his age? after winning 2 MVPs?

Is it coincidence that more turnovers started happening when Shaq arrived? Just askin' ...

 

[Covert Rain]

LoL, with all due respect, do you really think that's gonna happen? at his age? after winning 2 MVPs?

Is it coincidence that more turnovers started happening when Shaq arrived? Just askin' ...

I will look it up but I believe Nash's turnover problems actually were up before the Shaq trade.

 

[devilalum]

The Suns 4th quarter defense was awesome tonight.

 

[nowagimp]

I will look it up but I believe Nash's turnover problems actually were up before the Shaq trade.

shaqs arrival was easily the highest correlated event with the increase in turnovers. Did you watch the games?

 

[nowagimp]

LoL, with all due respect, do you really think that's gonna happen? at his age? after winning 2 MVPs?

Is it coincidence that more turnovers started happening when Shaq arrived? Just askin' ...

No kidding, he can reinvent himself as stockton and run the pick and roll every other play, LOL.

On the shaq arrival: sometimes its just staring you in the face and you still cant see it. Shaq has a career full of TO's, wonder why the suns would turn it over mor ewith shaq running the offense than a slick ballhandling PG, duh!

 

[Covert Rain]

shaqs arrival was easily the highest correlated event with the increase in turnovers. Did you watch the games?

Yes. However, I have seen Steve Nash throw away more easy passes the last 2 seasons then the entire time he has been here. That's not on Shaq. You can say what you want about Nash in this slow down offense. However, Steve was making alot of bone headed passes last season as well.

Look at last nights game. There were about 3 or 4 times that Nash turned the ball over on what used to be routine passes for him. Shaq didn't play. He started doing that last season.

Thank god Nash can make up for it with great passes and great shooting. His net effect outweighs the negatives right now IMO.

 

[nowagimp]

Yes. However, I have seen Steve Nash throw away more easy passes the last 2 seasons then the entire time he has been here. That's not on Shaq. You can say what you want about Nash in this slow down offense. However, Steve was making alot of bone headed passes last season as well.

Look at last nights game. There were about 3 or 4 times that Nash turned the ball over on what used to be routine passes for him. Shaq didn't play. He started doing that last season.

Thank god Nash can make up for it with great passes and great shooting. His net effect outweighs the negatives right now IMO.

Nashs turnovers/48mins have increased gradually by 0.7 per 48 mins over the last 5 years, and only by 0.3 since his last mvp. His assists have gone down int he Porter/shaq offense to a 2.15:1 A/TO ratio(from 3-3.8). But then, Hills and Diaws assist/TO ratios have also tanked in the porter system. Shaq has more TO's/48 this year than all but 4 NBA centers, guys like bogut, Hilton armstrong, marc Gasol(rookie). Some times you have to look at the numbers more closely, eyeballing can lead to bad judgement in the numbers eval.

 

[Covert Rain]

Nashs turnovers/48mins have increased graduallyh by 0.6 per 48 over the last 5 years, and only by 0.3 since his last mvp. His assists have gone down int he Porter/shaq offense to a 2.15:1 A/TO ratio. But then, Hills and Diaws assist/TO ratios have also tanked in the porter system.

No doubt that this system is not exactly maximizing Steve's skills. There are just times when I wonder what he is thinking when turning the ball over. He is definitely forcing it at times.

Maybe when they find that better balance Steve can pick and choose him moments better??