Our franchise QB

[Yuma]

The crazy thing is if you can combine how well he threw the 1st half of last year with the way he ran the 1st half of 2020 you might have a top 3 player in the league. He's shown signs of being transcendent, but just cant put together fully. It seemed like he got better at something the last couple years and now not so much.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Either this really is a below aveerae organization or there is something going on with Kyler thats keeping him from that level of play.

Chargers are starting to have legit question marks, but there's no questions about Herbert. Josh Allen just keeps getting better. Lamar has been dealt a tough hand imo and he stll makes the most of it.

Maybe him and hi dad think they know everything. Maybe Keim is really bad at his job. Either way its frustrating.

This is one of those stats I was talking about where it doesn't look like what we are seeing. Kyler gets on a lot of these stats showing he's a talented QB. Just the win/losses haven't rolled in.

 

[Stout]

This is a wild statement completely unhinged from reality. Kyler's completion percentage is 1.4% lower than it was in 2020 and 2021. His YPA is almost two yards less (5.8 vs 7.5). His passer rating is 13 points lower. His intended air yards per attempt is almost 2 yards shorter than it was those years. His TD percentage is almost two points lower.

The only things that are better now than the past two years is his interception percentage is lower and his sack rate is lower.



I think that Kyler's most ardent supporters think that he's among the second tier of QBs with Burrow and Herbert. I disagree with that, and it's a pretty fine line between being the NFL's eighth-best QB and the 12th.

FWIW, Kyler's apologists pretty consistently say "Well I guess Patrick Mahomes has never missed an open read" or "Tom Brady forgot the down just last season!"

Thank you! That statement was too ridiculous to let stand.

 

[Stout]

Decided to ignore the facts in my post huh?

Here are some of your hot takes to back it up.

Caption this...

The book says the line of scrimmage was the KC 49. Say he was about 5 yards behind the line and BJ was about 5 yards deep in the Zone, in great position, so that would be about 60-yards in the air. There was a lot of air under it. i love Matt Leinart. I still can't believe people the...

www.arizonasportsfans.com

Matt Leinart does not look like a rookie

This Mark Linehart fella looks pretty good. :D We got a huge break when he dropped to 10. Keep investing in the O-line and we'll be set on offense for years to come.

www.arizonasportsfans.com

Kurt Warners Stats are SICKENING!!!!!!!

Games where he started and finished the game This year: Washington 2 Int's and 2 fumbles this is the only game where he started and finished the game Last year: Game One: 3 fumbles, No Int's Game Two: 4 fumbles, 1 Int Game Three: 1 fumble, 3 INT's Game Four : 1 Int, 2 fumbles BENCHED...

www.arizonasportsfans.com

Yeah, Cheese nailed it with your whataboutism. You made a bold statement about "what does KM need to do" to earn fan respect. That statement was was questioned. You pivoted to...Josh Rosen and Matt Leinert. No, no. WTF has KM done to prove out as the #1 overall pick? What has he won or proven to the fans to endear us to him? Nothing! He can't win a playoff game, he can't win a clinching game to get us to the playoffs, and he apparently is regressing rather than progressing. He's showing an alarming lack of football smarts and heart. What is there to cheer for at this point, other than hoping one of our players gets better and we're not screwed long-term?

 

[Stout]

Yeah, I hate to be in this camp, but unfortunately we're here.

I think he needs to get away from Kliff, and work with someone who will challenge him, not comfort him. Kyler has unbelievable physical skills, generational elusiveness and speed. He just hasn't improved enough, and I think that's in large part to not challenging him enough.

And, you know what? A lot of that's on him. A good QB, a "generational" talent, would, if stuck with a bad coach not doing enough for him, take stock and ask himself "What can I do personally to make this team better?" This kid is so very far from that kind of guy it's silly.

And, please, can we stop calling him a generational anything at this point?

 

[TheCardFan]

WTF has KM done to prove out as the #1 overall pick? What has he won or proven to the fans to endear us to him? Nothing! He can't win a playoff game, he can't win a clinching game to get us to the playoffs, and he apparently is regressing rather than progressing. He's showing an alarming lack of football smarts and heart. What is there to cheer for at this point, other than hoping one of our players gets better and we're not screwed long-term?

That is precisely the issue. You can't find balance or be objective. You want it to be 100% that Kyler sucks and he hasn't proven anything.

We can all agree on where Kyler has not met expectations and is not an elite QB at this point.
If you can't also agree that he has demonstrated that talent at times and has the potential to get there - then your just being obstinate.

 

[Stout]

That is precisely the issue. You can't find balance or be objective. You want it to be 100% that Kyler sucks and he hasn't proven anything.

We can all agree on where Kyler has not met expectations and is not an elite QB at this point.
If you can't also agree that he has demonstrated that talent at times and has the potential to get there - then your just being obstinate.

I can certainly agree that he's demonstrated talent--that run to begin the season last year was spectacular. I thought we had an MVP-caliber QB, and said so, often. Then he didn't just slow down--the wheels came off. I cannot state with a high degree of confidence that he will get there, and lead us where we need to go, and I have zero confidence he will become a "transcendent" anything. He is regressing, not progressing. It seems, so far, as if everything needs to be perfect around him for him to do well. That's not a "generational" anything; that's a league average QB. League average is okay, and I'll keep him over the modern-day Skeltons of the game, but he's not 200+ million okay.

He's talented and can play on fire sometimes, and sometimes for long stretches. There's no denying that. Consistency has just plain eluded him, and in a year he needed to prove he has improved, is getting better, and has learned how to get better, he's fallen flat on his face.

Can you tell me what about him makes you think he has arrived or proven anything up to this point?

 

[slanidrac16]

That is precisely the issue. You can't find balance or be objective. You want it to be 100% that Kyler sucks and he hasn't proven anything.

We can all agree on where Kyler has not met expectations and is not an elite QB at this point.
If you can't also agree that he has demonstrated that talent at times and has the potential to get there - then your just being obstinate.

Sorry. He got paid. It’s todays world. What can you do for us today? Potential shouldn’t get you anything…. Unless you work for the Arizona Cardinals.
Year 4. How long you gonna wait on potential? What’s fair in your eyes?

 

[TheCardFan]

I can certainly agree that he's demonstrated talent--that run to begin the season last year was spectacular. I thought we had an MVP-caliber QB, and said so, often. Then he didn't just slow down--the wheels came off. I cannot state with a high degree of confidence that he will get there, and lead us where we need to go, and I have zero confidence he will become a "transcendent" anything. He is regressing, not progressing. It seems, so far, as if everything needs to be perfect around him for him to do well. That's not a "generational" anything; that's a league average QB. League average is okay, and I'll keep him over the modern-day Skeltons of the game, but he's not 200+ million okay.

He's talented and can play on fire sometimes, and sometimes for long stretches. There's no denying that. Consistency has just plain eluded him, and in a year he needed to prove he has improved, is getting better, and has learned how to get better, he's fallen flat on his face.

Can you tell me what about him makes you think he has arrived or proven anything up to this point?

Great post and agree.

The first 7 games of last year proved to me that he can be elite. "Can be" is different than "is consistently". There is no denying the talent and there is no denying the deficiencies.

Is he ever going to be the best QB in the NFL or in the history of the NFL...no. I don't think that is the bar for 99% of players anyway.

I do know that there aren't many QB's I would trade Kyler for right now.

Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen are on a different level.
Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow
Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson before he got himself in trouble

Jalen Hurts is a tough one. I think Kyler is way more talented but Hurts is a warrior. That being said - how would Kyler perform in the Eagles offense today?

Brady and Rodgers are too old and their teams are pretty much hosed at this point (when they retire).

So maybe 5-7 QB's that we would rather have than Kyler. I try to focus on that and then balance the good with the bad.

 

[TheCardFan]

Sorry. He got paid. It’s todays world. What can you do for us today? Potential shouldn’t get you anything…. Unless you work for the Arizona Cardinals.
Year 4. How long you gonna wait on potential? What’s fair in your eyes?

What was the alternative - walk me through your plan if we didn't pay Kyler.

 

[Stout]

What was the alternative - walk me through your plan if we didn't pay Kyler.

We had plenty of team control and didn't need to pay him yet. I would have waited until this upcoming offseason to evaluate whether or not to give him the megadeal.

 

[BritCard]

Geno Smith is more productive than several QB's that are highly regarded. Wouldn't trade for Geno either.

I think this is where intelligence kicks in when evaluating QB's.

Kyler has not lived up to expectations this year or end of last year. Definitely a lot of issues and a lot of talent. The question we all want to know is can he get there consistently?

Geno is obviously haven't a mini renaissance. He's been in that system for over 2 years now so he's had time to get it down pat. And there is a "screw it" element I'm sure. Might aswell go out there guns blazing if your in last chance saloon to be a starting QB in the NFL. I think any team would be wary of trading for him and getting the same performance.

But also Kyler has no excuses. He's in his 4th year in this system and he's playing his worst football outside of the first half of his rookie year. I'd be disappointed if he was still on his rookie deal, so you can imagine how I feel having just paid him like a top 5 QB.

 

[BritCard]

I was just looking at this play again that I highlighted the other day with Rondale being open as I still had it open in Photoshop.

It occurred to me how there is a big run play on there for Kyler. He has a huge hole ahead of him and all the D line are sealed off (maybe it's designed this way to have the run as an option) and with the field stacked to the left the right hand side is open for Kyler to run behind AJ Green.

This is the difference between top level QB play, and mediocre QB play. I think if this is Lamar at QB he sees how lopsided the defense is and he audibles for Green to block that linebacker. If he runs straight to draw in the CB then bounces outside that's a lot of green to run into.

Instead we get an 8 yard check down.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[PlayerHater]

I was just looking at this play again that I highlighted the other day with Rondale being open as I still had it open in Photoshop.

It occurred to me how there is a big run play on there for Kyler. He has a huge hole ahead of him and all the D line are sealed off (maybe it's designed this way to have the run as an option) and with the field stacked to the left the right hand side is open for Kyler to run behind AJ Green.

This is the difference between top level QB play, and mediocre QB play. I think if this is Lamar at QB he sees how lopsided the defense is and he audibles for Green to block that linebacker. If he runs straight to draw in the CB then bounces outside that's a lot of green to run into.

Instead we get an 8 yard check down.

You must be registered for see images attach

Kyler was drafted because he was supposed to be the ultimate dual threat QB. His appeal was that he would make defenses pay with his legs like Lamar does. This is why everyone overlooked his lack of size.

Kyler is the 7th best rushing QB this year behind guys like Daniel Jones and Mariota. He has about half the rushing attempts he should have. If the cards think a 5'10 Kyler Murray can be an elite QB playing from the pocket they are in for a lot of bad games. The reality is Kyler is a very average NFL QB when he's not using his legs. Rushing for 400 yards a season is simply not going to cut it. If he's not running because they don't want him to get hurt then they got the wrong guy.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

We are at the Arizona State Fair and I am going on Kyler’s favorite ride - the Big Slide.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[SoonerLou]

I was just looking at this play again that I highlighted the other day with Rondale being open as I still had it open in Photoshop.

It occurred to me how there is a big run play on there for Kyler. He has a huge hole ahead of him and all the D line are sealed off (maybe it's designed this way to have the run as an option) and with the field stacked to the left the right hand side is open for Kyler to run behind AJ Green.

This is the difference between top level QB play, and mediocre QB play. I think if this is Lamar at QB he sees how lopsided the defense is and he audibles for Green to block that linebacker. If he runs straight to draw in the CB then bounces outside that's a lot of green to run into.

Instead we get an 8 yard check down.

You must be registered for see images attach

I think he throws to a wide open Mark Andrews. Safer play than trying to make the solid tackling James Bradberry miss a tackle in the open field.

However, I do agree that Kyler needs to attack the middle of the field when running.

 

[Yuma]

We are at the Arizona State Fair and I am going on Kyler’s favorite ride - the Big Slide.

You must be registered for see images attach

Hope you made it all the way to the bottom, and not a yard short!

 

[Stout]

My coworkers are almost all Steelers fans. Most of them used to think KM was really good. I thought they'd call me crazy when I started on with my new disdain for him. Oh, no, they didn't laugh me out of the building, and they didn't mock me for him being so awful. They pity me for the Cards rolling with him and having given him a laughable contract. No one would agree that they'd even trade Pickett for him. Other teams' fans think he's an absolute joke.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Kyler has the most attempts in the NFL yet only 15th in passing yards.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I was just looking at this play again that I highlighted the other day with Rondale being open as I still had it open in Photoshop.

It occurred to me how there is a big run play on there for Kyler. He has a huge hole ahead of him and all the D line are sealed off (maybe it's designed this way to have the run as an option) and with the field stacked to the left the right hand side is open for Kyler to run behind AJ Green.

This is the difference between top level QB play, and mediocre QB play. I think if this is Lamar at QB he sees how lopsided the defense is and he audibles for Green to block that linebacker. If he runs straight to draw in the CB then bounces outside that's a lot of green to run into.

Instead we get an 8 yard check down.

You must be registered for see images attach

You can likely find similar missed reads by him in more than half his pass plays.

I feel like his famous saying was misquoted. I think he actually said, “I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just not see anything before it happens,”

 

[BritCard]

We are at the Arizona State Fair and I am going on Kyler’s favorite ride - the Big Slide.

You must be registered for see images attach

That is a big slide. I doubt Kyler would pass the height test. Hair don't count.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Arz101]

I continue to believe Murray is the best option for Cardinals for a while but then starting to think how little Murray improved his passing game since taking first NFL snaps nearly four seasons ago!

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is a wild statement completely unhinged from reality. Kyler's completion percentage is 1.4% lower than it was in 2020 and 2021. His YPA is almost two yards less (5.8 vs 7.5). His passer rating is 13 points lower. His intended air yards per attempt is almost 2 yards shorter than it was those years. His TD percentage is almost two points lower.

The only things that are better now than the past two years is his interception percentage is lower and his sack rate is lower.



I think that Kyler's most ardent supporters think that he's among the second tier of QBs with Burrow and Herbert. I disagree with that, and it's a pretty fine line between being the NFL's eighth-best QB and the 12th.

FWIW, Kyler's apologists pretty consistently say "Well I guess Patrick Mahomes has never missed an open read" or "Tom Brady forgot the down just last season!"

Murray hasn't taken a step forward from last season.

Even with Hops suspension and injuries at WR, the OL play and the receivers he has are competent enough that Murray can really only blame himself.

 

[slanidrac16]

What was the alternative - walk me through your plan if we didn't pay Kyler.

He was still under contract and I believe he would have been next year too.

 

[Shane]

He was still under contract and I believe he would have been next year too.

Correct and a franchise option on top of that for at least one season.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

Correct and a franchise option on top of that for at least one season.

Yup, we could have controlled his rights for another 3 seasons after this one.
Same thing that is happening with Lamar Jackson and Lamar has accomplished lots more than Kyler so far.