Our franchise QB

[cardpa]

Murray lacks the testicular fortitude to be a top notch QB. Thank you Mick Foley for that wonderful phrase.

 

[BritCard]

Hopkins knows

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[Chopper0080]

This isn't directed at you Brit, but your post got me thinking about QB's like Tua, Jalen Hurts, and Geno Smith. All 3 of these guys have a mental toughness and fortitude that Kyler hasn't shown yet. They were written off and completely disrespected by everyone. They could have easily relegated themselves to backup duties--and Geno was a dead man walking! Their play this year doesn't just happen, it means they were working as hard when things were terrible (when no one is watching) as they did when they were the franchise surrounded by cameras.

I don't personally think any of those 3 are better than Kyler regarding talent or athleticism, but hard work and belief in your ability to elevate a team will almost always overcome talent in the long run. (I say "almost" because I don't think coked up Lawrence Taylor had a clue what was going on most of the time lol)

This is the theory why so few major college QBs are successful at the NFL level.

 

[nashman]

Hopkins knows

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All most see is a weak ass coach that doesn’t have the respect of his players. Hopkins and Murray are fine you’re trying to make more out of it than it was cause it fits your delusional narrative!

 

[nashman]

Please stop comparing some non comparative situations, Tua, Hurts, Geno all have running games and much better Olines and surrounding cast, also much MUCH better coaching of course they look more successful at the MOMENT! Who honestly thinks Geno will keep this up long term? The eagles haven’t played anyone yet worth a damn, and Tua got two of the best receivers in the game and still not dominating anyone. QB play across the league looks wacky this season these QBs are playing well while guys like Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Herbert, Allen aren’t killing it, just a weird year so far but the cream usually rises eventually. Kyler is playing poorly but we know he CAN play if not in a disaster situation which we’ve been much of the season!

 

[BritCard]

All most see is a weak ass coach that doesn’t have the respect of his players. Hopkins and Murray are fine you’re trying to make more out of it than it was cause it fits your delusional narrative!

He literally says "What are you seeing?" and "I was open".

Hopkins has never done this before. He's getting frustrated. He knows.

 

[BritCard]

Please stop comparing some non comparative situations, Tua, Hurts, Geno all have running games and much better Olines and surrounding cast, also much MUCH better coaching of course they look more successful at the MOMENT! Who honestly thinks Geno will keep this up long term? The eagles haven’t played anyone yet worth a damn, and Tua got two of the best receivers in the game and still not dominating anyone. QB play across the league looks wacky this season these QBs are playing well while guys like Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Herbert, Allen aren’t killing it, just a weird year so far but the cream usually rises eventually. Kyler is playing poorly but we know he CAN play if not in a disaster situation which we’ve been much of the season!

Hurts and Geno both have higher pressure rate. Tua slightly less. You're living in fantasy land.

Tell me how the O line, coaching and surrounding talent are worse that last years 11-6 team?

 

[nashman]

Hurts and Geno both have higher pressure rate. Tua slightly less. You're living in fantasy land.

Tell me how the O line, coaching and surrounding talent are worse that last years 11-6 team?

They are all hurt you goofball if you think this team is comparable to the healthy 10-2 team your delusional…

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

He literally says "What are you seeing?" and "I was open".

Hopkins has never done this before. He's getting frustrated. He knows.

You have absolutely no idea what Hopkins has said to quarterbacks on the sideline throughout his career.

 

[BritCard]

They are all hurt you goofball if you think this team is comparable to the healthy 10-2 team your delusional…

Sigh.

What difference does that make?

Is 19% pressure with a backup somehow measured differently that 19% pressure with a starter?

You do understand how percentages work right?

Yes the run blocking sucks and there are false start issues with Price at C but how exactly does that produce this? How exactly does run blocking and false starts in the last few games contribute to the lowest YPA in the league, the lowest "Longest pass" of any QB in the league (and several backups) and a passing grid that looks like this?

There are 12 squares on this grid and he's less than average in 7 of them.

You must be registered for see images attach

He's worse than Jared Goff.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[DaHilg]

Please stop comparing some non comparative situations, Tua, Hurts, Geno all have running games and much better Olines and surrounding cast, also much MUCH better coaching of course they look more successful at the MOMENT! Who honestly thinks Geno will keep this up long term? The eagles haven’t played anyone yet worth a damn, and Tua got two of the best receivers in the game and still not dominating anyone. QB play across the league looks wacky this season these QBs are playing well while guys like Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Herbert, Allen aren’t killing it, just a weird year so far but the cream usually rises eventually. Kyler is playing poorly but we know he CAN play if not in a disaster situation which we’ve been much of the season!

This.. but Brit just can’t comprehend this. His mind struggles to understand that if you put Tua, Hurts and Geno here we’d likely be 0-9.

 

[BritCard]

Was Casserly right? He's rarely right but in this case he said this was what he heard from contacts at the combine. These are all things we are still hearing about in year 4 right?

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[BritCard]

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[OE_Thunder]

Confession Time:

I don't post on here often but I lurk a ton and read almost everyone's posts about the cardinals. I have been firmly in the camp of "Kyler is good (not great) and we need a new coach that can help him" for the past 3+ years. Maybe that was because I am an OU fan and I was excited that my NFL team would pick up my quarterback. Or maybe it was because I saw the potential and talent that Kyler has and ignored the other signs. Or also maybe it's because I don't want to admit defeat in that we failed to find a QBOTF with the number 1 pick. Regardless, I was firmly in the camp of "camp Kyler, and we need a new coach that can hold him accountable". Heck, I was even pretty excited that Kyler signed his extension this offseason

However, about 6 weeks ago (after the rams loss) I started looking at the team differently as I wanted to see if Kyler really was as big of a problem as some of ya'll were saying and I started seeing some signs that I was just kind of brushing over early and chalked it up to "he is still young". After watching the last few games and the first episode of hard knocks, I have now come to the conclusion that Kyler ain't it and will never be it.... Here are some examples of why I have come to that conclusion:

#1 - In hard knocks after the game against the seahawks, his first comment was "How many pre-snap penalties did we have?" Instead of saying "I have to play better" or, "I played like crap. etc" immediate blame goes to the Offensive Live. That SCREAMS to me a lack of leadership and accountability.

#2 - I want to go back to his time at OU for a second. Most of you will recall that Kyler was only a 1-year starter. At the beginning of OU's training camp, there were rumblings and rumors that Lincoln had to "Dumb" down the offense for Kyler. We really didn't hear much of that during the year as that team played well but at the time I brushed it aside. Where I am headed with this is that I believe Kliff has to "Dumb" down his offense for Kyler. Why do we see as many screens and quick passes as we do? Sure, it could be because that is the style of offense that Kliff runs, or, could it be because he wants to remove decision-making as much as he can from Kyler?

#3 - I hear the argument that "he needs a better oline, he needs a running game, he needs a better coach, etc..." Where have I heard this before? Oh, yea, when Rosen was here. A lot on this board were saying the EXACT same things when he was here. Well, Rosen has bounced around the league from team to team (each team has talent on it) and yet he is still a crappy quarterback. A better oline, a better running game, and a better coach isn't just going to magically make a bad/crappy quarterback into a good/great one. Heck, Kyler has more offensive talent on this team today than Carson had in 2015, and look at where the team is at.

#4 - The last point that I will bring up is something I did 2 weeks ago. I re-watched the 3 games that Colt McCoy started last year. And in every one, you could just feel that Kliff was giving more decision-making to Colt than he would ever do with Kyler. What was interesting was that there was fewer screen plays being called and more routes being run with Colt going through progressions more than I have ever seen Kyler do in his time.

Now I am admitting defeat and saying to everyone that Kyler ain't it and we will need to trade him in the offseason (even if it is a MASSIVE dead cap situation for a year or two) and get whatever we can for him.

Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk.

 

[BritCard]

Confession Time:

I don't post on here often but I lurk a ton and read almost everyone's posts about the cardinals. I have been firmly in the camp of "Kyler is good (not great) and we need a new coach that can help him" for the past 3+ years. Maybe that was because I am an OU fan and I was excited that my NFL team would pick up my quarterback. Or maybe it was because I saw the potential and talent that Kyler has and ignored the other signs. Or also maybe it's because I don't want to admit defeat in that we failed to find a QBOTF with the number 1 pick. Regardless, I was firmly in the camp of "camp Kyler, and we need a new coach that can hold him accountable". Heck, I was even pretty excited that Kyler signed his extension this offseason

However, about 6 weeks ago (after the rams loss) I started looking at the team differently as I wanted to see if Kyler really was as big of a problem as some of ya'll were saying and I started seeing some signs that I was just kind of brushing over early and chalked it up to "he is still young". After watching the last few games and the first episode of hard knocks, I have now come to the conclusion that Kyler ain't it and will never be it.... Here are some examples of why I have come to that conclusion:

#1 - In hard knocks after the game against the seahawks, his first comment was "How many pre-snap penalties did we have?" Instead of saying "I have to play better" or, "I played like crap. etc" immediate blame goes to the Offensive Live. That SCREAMS to me a lack of leadership and accountability.

#2 - I want to go back to his time at OU for a second. Most of you will recall that Kyler was only a 1-year starter. At the beginning of OU's training camp, there were rumblings and rumors that Lincoln had to "Dumb" down the offense for Kyler. We really didn't hear much of that during the year as that team played well but at the time I brushed it aside. Where I am headed with this is that I believe Kliff has to "Dumb" down his offense for Kyler. Why do we see as many screens and quick passes as we do? Sure, it could be because that is the style of offense that Kliff runs, or, could it be because he wants to remove decision-making as much as he can from Kyler?

#3 - I hear the argument that "he needs a better oline, he needs a running game, he needs a better coach, etc..." Where have I heard this before? Oh, yea, when Rosen was here. A lot on this board were saying the EXACT same things when he was here. Well, Rosen has bounced around the league from team to team (each team has talent on it) and yet he is still a crappy quarterback. A better oline, a better running game, and a better coach isn't just going to magically make a bad/crappy quarterback into a good/great one. Heck, Kyler has more offensive talent on this team today than Carson had in 2015, and look at where the team is at.

#4 - The last point that I will bring up is something I did 2 weeks ago. I re-watched the 3 games that Colt McCoy started last year. And in every one, you could just feel that Kliff was giving more decision-making to Colt than he would ever do with Kyler. What was interesting was that there was fewer screen plays being called and more routes being run with Colt going through progressions more than I have ever seen Kyler do in his time.

Now I am admitting defeat and saying to everyone that Kyler ain't it and we will need to trade him in the offseason (even if it is a MASSIVE dead cap situation for a year or two) and get whatever we can for him.

Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk.

The weirdest element in all of this is the the club have worked with him for 3 years and they felt they needed to put a study clause in his deal. So why did they do the deal?

Was it just coming off an 11-6 everyone was a bit high and felt that 11-6 proved he was good enough and that the flaws didn't matter?

You mentioned the dumbing down the offense rumors from his first year as starter. Then rumors from the combine were that his leadership and knowledge were lacking and his board work had been really poor. And we have seen all that play out in the NFL. Those rumors STILL persist about his leadership and understanding of the game.

Makes you wonder why they paid all that money out.

Feels like Field of Dreams "If you pay him, he will get better"

 

[Stout]

"Where have I heard this before? Oh, yea, when Rosen was here." by @OE_Thunder

Savage, my friend. Savage! Unfortunately true, but savage

 

[Absolute Zero]

Head to head performances by QBR in Cardinals games this year.

Mahonnes 94.8 (Kyler was 52.9)
G. Smith 76.3 (Kyler was 41.4, game 2)
K. Murray 71.5 (J. Hurts was 51.5))
Stafford 62.2 (Kyler was 32.2)
Carr 59.3 (Kyler was also 59.3)
Dalton 55.4 (Kyler was 61.2)
Cousins 47.8 (Kyler was 45.9
K. Murray 42.7 (Mayfield was 6.8)
G. Smith 38.6 (Kyler was 26.7)

I think part of this is accounted for by D. Hop being out so many games, and perhaps other injuries. But its not good. The front office may cringe when they see that Gino Smith is outperforming Kyler this year, on a salary of $3.5 million. Hopefully things will start getting better for Kyler next week.

Colt MCoy is having a solid game today. Will be interesting to see where he ends up on this list.

 

[splitsecond]

After watching McCoy make all the throws to Rondale that Kyler for whatever reason refuses to or cannot, I believe we maybe have paid $230m for a moody gen z video game addicted paperweight. I pray we can trade him for enough picks to draft a qb who can see the middle of the field.

 

[Chopper0080]

...needs too much help to be a franchise QB. Needs the perfect offensive line. Needs the perfect receivers. Needs the perfect running game. Needs the perfect system. Needs the perfect coach.

Keim's biggest mistake will be giving Kyler this extension.

 

[urs]

...needs too much help to be a franchise QB. Needs the perfect offensive line. Needs the perfect receivers. Needs the perfect running game. Needs the perfect system. Needs the perfect coach.

Keim's biggest mistake will be giving Kyler this extension.

LOL!! You've seen Keim these past years and you think THAT is the biggest mistake?! Whew, you Kyler haters are something else

 

[DVontel]

If Colt plays & does a solid job against SF next week then yea….not gonna look good.

 

[Fiasco]

LOL!! You've seen Keim these past years and you think THAT is the biggest mistake?! Whew, you Kyler haters are something else

My dog isn’t a very good quarterback. Me saying that doesn’t mean I hate my dog.

 

[urs]

My dog isn’t a very good quarterback. Me saying that doesn’t mean I hate my dog.

Pretty horrific analogy. Give it another shot...

 

[DVontel]

Pretty horrific analogy. Give it another shot...

Kyler hasn’t been good this season. Outside against the Saints, Colt played had a better game today than Kyler has all year.

Now, playing against SF where their offense won’t keep their defense on the field for long stretches of time will really be eye-opening on how the offense looks.

I don’t think Kliff & Kyler don’t fit each other. Kliff wants to dunk & dunk it while Kyler wants to go for the long bombs. It’s to the point where I think Jimmy G would fit Kliff’s offense better than Kyler, but that doesn’t make Jimmy a better QB than Kyler.

 

[DVontel]

I said this in the game-thread,

Kliff’s offense has a low ceiling, but a high floor for QBs. I believe guys like Jimmy G & Tannehill could fit in Kliff’s offense better than Kyler. Kyler doesn’t want to dink & dunk, for better or worse.

I believe in a offense like Reid or Arians’, Kyler would be better, but he’s not in those offenses so he needs to adjust. It’s up to him to do that. I know he can be a lot of negative things, but he’s also a hard-worker. Does he care since he got paid? We’ll see.