Our own free agents... help

[slanidrac16]

Everybody is firing off names of free agents they want brought in( including me!) but maybe you can help me with this.

I’d like compile a comprehensive list of our own free agents that we want back and an approximate cost. It would give us a better idea of how much cap space we really have. So if anyone can help me build on this that would be cool.

1. Drake ( 7 m?)
2. Fitz ( 10m?)
3. Hundley(2m?)
4. Shipley( apparently 1m?)
5. Humphries (13m)
6. Gonzales ( 1 m)

My dollar amounts are mere guesses so feel free to adjust what you think.

 

[Solar7]

The albatross is definitely going to be DJ Humphries. We can call it $14 million or so if we want to franchise the guy.

Then we're looking at the question of Marcus Gilbert or Justin Murray - do we bring either back? A few million there. Cassius Marsh? Brooks Reed? $1-2 million.

Zane Gonzales? Rodney Gunter?

 

[slanidrac16]

The albatross is definitely going to be DJ Humphries. We can call it $14 million or so if we want to franchise the guy.

Then we're looking at the question of Marcus Gilbert or Justin Murray - do we bring either back? A few million there. Cassius Marsh? Brooks Reed? $1-2 million.

Zane Gonzales? Rodney Gunter?

I edited and already at 34 m

 

[outcent13]

Zach Kerr seems like a good depth guy

 

[Solar7]

I edited and already at 34 m

Yeah, this has been my biggest concern about everyone claiming we have so much cap space. Your list of six, if we retain them all, doesn't account for the 100% hole (as in, need a starter, don't have one at all) at:

RT
OLB
ILB
DE (x2)

Now, one can hope that every player we fill in at those spots is dramatically better than their predecessor, but there's very little financial flexibility to upgrade spots where we wish we could just get better, like safety, even WR.

 

[kerouac9]

Here's the full list as of 12/30:

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/arizona-cardinals/

OTC puts together a nice value estimator. I don't know how accurate it is, but this is what it says for key guys:

Kenyon Drake - $6.24M
Larry Fitzgerald - $9.37M
D.J. Humphries - $12.0M
Brett Hundley - $1.0M
A.Q. Shipley - $7.6M

Good news, y'all: That adds up to $36.21M. We can structure some of those deals to push that value into the future a little bit, but there you go.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah, this has been my biggest concern about everyone claiming we have so much cap space. Your list of six, if we retain them all, doesn't account for the 100% hole (as in, need a starter, don't have one at all) at:

RT
OLB
ILB
DE (x2)

Now, one can hope that every player we fill in at those spots is dramatically better than their predecessor, but there's very little financial flexibility to upgrade spots where we wish we could just get better, like safety, even WR.

Well of course we don't have enough to just go out and sign like 10 good free agents or anything, but we have enough space to at least add a few legit upgrades through free agency and we can target some immediate upgrades in the draft as well (at least in the first 2-3 rounds).

 

[Solar7]

Here's the full list as of 12/30:

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/arizona-cardinals/

OTC puts together a nice value estimator. I don't know how accurate it is, but this is what it says for key guys:

Kenyon Drake - $6.24M
Larry Fitzgerald - $9.37M
D.J. Humphries - $12.0M
Brett Hundley - $1.0M
A.Q. Shipley - $7.6M

Good news, y'all: That adds up to $36.21M. We can structure some of those deals to push that value into the future a little bit, but there you go.

Just chewing the fat here since you and I agree on most things, but there's not many players on that list with long-term value to push that back into the future, unless you want to be in cap hell around the time we're hopefully working to extend Kyler.

 

[Solar7]

Well of course we don't have enough to just go out and sign like 10 good free agents or anything, but we have enough space to at least add a few legit upgrades through free agency and we can target some immediate upgrades in the draft as well (at least in the first 2-3 rounds).

You and I might just disagree on defining an upgrade. Knowing we need warm bodies at all of these positions, I don't see us acquiring a Dupree or Clowney at OLB, rather having to settle for say, Matthew Judon. Can we afford a Conklin? I don't know.

This is a situation that will be interesting to follow - teams can make things work at the end of the day, but is this a year that comes back to bite us in the ass because we don't have any young talent?

 

[kerouac9]

Just chewing the fat here since you and I agree on most things, but there's not many players on that list with long-term value to push that back into the future, unless you want to be in cap hell around the time we're hopefully working to extend Kyler.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Fitz do a 3-year, $28 million deal that voids after 2 years to push some money out.
Humphries can get the $28 million he's going to get guaranteed anyway spread out over the first 4 years, which would push down his 1st year number
I wouldn't be surprised to see Shipley get a four-year deal that pushes $5 million or so into a final season he'll never see.

There's always ways to make cap room. The important thing to remember is that you have to load your roster for the next four years while Murray is under contract. Even then, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of dead money/overhang on your cap. You just can't re-set your roster.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

You and I might just disagree on defining an upgrade. Knowing we need warm bodies at all of these positions, I don't see us acquiring a Dupree or Clowney at OLB, rather having to settle for say, Matthew Judon. Can we afford a Conklin? I don't know.

This is a situation that will be interesting to follow - teams can make things work at the end of the day, but is this a year that comes back to bite us in the ass because we don't have any young talent?

There is only one definition for “upgrade” and that is better than what you already have. For instance simply getting an average to slightly above average right tackle would be an upgrade at that spot. We were significantly bad at a few spots on the roster this year and even filling those spots with above average players would be significant upgrades.

 

[Solar7]

There is only one definition for “upgrade” and that is better than what you already have. For instance simply getting an average to slightly above average right tackle would be an upgrade at that spot. We were significantly bad at a few spots on the roster this year and even filling those spots with above average players would be significant upgrades.

Well, it's why I brought up the upgrade discussion. To me, an upgrade is taking an asset you already have and replacing it with a better part. Let's say, as was discussed in another thread, Justin Simmons being signed when we have the Thompson twins holding down the safety position at the moment. They would be relegated to backup roles. In the case of RT or OLB, it's going to be a matter of replacing it with just any warm body, because we functionally have no one. The Cards could sign Bud Dupree or Jason Pierre-Paul... regardless of the player, someone needs to be there, so it's not upgrading in my mind.

I would imagine that at the end of the offseason, we will have filled these roles with some players who don't represent clear-cut upgrades, but are just different.

 

[legend]

7.6 Million for AQ Shipley . . . dear God.

 

[Russ Smith]

7.6 Million for AQ Shipley . . . dear God.

My exact thought. There has to be a better value somewhere?

 

[kerouac9]

My exact thought. There has to be a better value somewhere?

Do y’all not understand the starting OC market?

https://overthecap.com/position/center/

 

[Russ Smith]

Do y’all not understand the starting OC market?

https://overthecap.com/position/center/

I've never looked. It just seems amazing to me that's his value but I'm assuming it actually is.

 

[TheCardFan]

Shipley has made 7.7m total for his entire career...10 seasons and never more than 2m/year. He made ~1.5 each of the last 2 years.

If he gets more than 3m...it will be an epic failure on the same level as Gresham's deal.

NFW

 

[slanidrac16]

Do y’all not understand the starting OC market?

https://overthecap.com/position/center/

Damn!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Here's the full list as of 12/30:

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/arizona-cardinals/

OTC puts together a nice value estimator. I don't know how accurate it is, but this is what it says for key guys:

Kenyon Drake - $6.24M
Larry Fitzgerald - $9.37M
D.J. Humphries - $12.0M
Brett Hundley - $1.0M
A.Q. Shipley - $7.6M

Good news, y'all: That adds up to $36.21M. We can structure some of those deals to push that value into the future a little bit, but there you go.

Thank you for the information. Actually quells my concerns

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Shipley has made 7.7m total for his entire career...10 seasons and never more than 2m/year. He made ~1.5 each of the last 2 years.

If he gets more than 3m...it will be an epic failure on the same level as Gresham's deal.

NFW

Eh I think he is below average but below average gets around 3 mill

 

[wa52lz]

Do y’all not understand the starting OC market?

https://overthecap.com/position/center/

Wouldn't Shipley, a 34yr old average ability player be one of the lower salaries that counter the high end salaries and brings the average down? I like the guy and I'm all for continuity, but the team has to be hoping that Cole or the Gaillard are able to beat out Shipley next year right? I can't see giving him anything more then $3-$3.5. Maybe I'm naive.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

 

[Jetstream Green]

Zach Kerr seems like a good depth guy

There was a direct improvement in run support when Kerr joined the fray. I am not saying he is great but he's a legit starter on run downs

 

[Chopper0080]

5 mil is probably the low end for Shipley considering age and level of play.

 

[kerouac9]

Wouldn't Shipley, a 34yr old average ability player be one of the lower salaries that counter the high end salaries and brings the average down? I like the guy and I'm all for continuity, but the team has to be hoping that Cole or the Gaillard are able to beat out Shipley next year right? I can't see giving him anything more then $3-$3.5. Maybe I'm naive.

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Yes, but Evan Boehm makes $3 mil per year. $5 mil would place Shipley at the very bottom of the salary rankings for OCs.

don’t be at all surprised that Shipley earns a Gresham-like overpay. This team can’t keep bleeding captains every season.