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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"Build the offensive line and get him weapons. "

We already have a top paid RB, a 4th rnd rb, 1 hof WR, two 2nd round WRs, a 4th round wr, and a 6th rnd wr.

At some point, Murray needs to elevate the talent around him. I agree that we need to add an OT and a #1 WR maybe a TE. Past that, this offense has all the talent he should need on it already.

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This is the most intellectually dishonest post I’ve ever seen from you.

Lance Allsworth is a HOF wide receiver. If we put him on the field would we still consider kyler to have a HOF wr to throw to? Fitz isn’t HOF Fitz at present.

And those 2nd round wrs are in their second and first years and one can’t even get on the field. And neither can the fourth rounder. Counting Isabella and the fourth rounder is counting guys who aren’t even playing. So how does kyler have them as weapons? Oh he doesn’t.

Just intellectually dishonest. Disappointing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

People are talking like Murray needs an all star roster to win. As the #1 pick, he shouldn't.

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No one has said that. Literally you are putting words in people’s mouths in an attempt to win an argument.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The top 5 players who rise to the top seem to be the ones who get it done by elevating the pieces they have.

Andrew Luck did not need a great offensive line to win games for the Colts. The Colts needed to upgrade the offensive line to keep Luck healthy while he was winning games. That is the difference that I am hearing and potentially starting to see. If Kyler CAN'T win without better players, then he should never have been the #1 pick.

Luck had considerably better wrs than does kyler. And luck couldn’t elevate the team while injured because of his oline. In other words, he needed better talent to make an impact. Same is being said of kyler.

 

[TJ]

With a much better team?? Minshew is simply a game manager

You calling him a "game manager" is actually more damning for Kyler than Minshew. He's outperforming the #1 pick in this draft at the moment and is required to do less. Perhaps Murray needs to be a game manager?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Zero wins...

The world isn’t black and white.

 

[gimpy]

What I see is, you can make numbers say just about whatever you want them to.

Just because someone says it is a "fact" doesn't necessarily mean it is or that it is true.

This is a team sport.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So it's just random chance that Minshew has won 2 games and Murray has won 0?

Or it could be the fact that their opponents scored a total of 31pts in those two games. Or it could be because the punter averages 45.5 yards a punt and continually pinned them deep. I don’t know I didn’t watch those games. But I know I’d have to have watched them to know why they won them instead of saying “minshew played so it must be because of him!”. This is football. There are lots of variables.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nowhere do I say this. I've said that Minshew is playing better than Murray right now, and has more wins than him.

It's shocking that the cultists can't even bring themselves to acknowledge this reality.

No more shocking than you doubling and tripling down on refusing to acknowledge mitigating circumstances.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, but MORE THAN HALF (267) those rush yards came in last weeks' game, which was also a win.

The three games before, JAX had 81, 103, and 81 rushing yards.

And where are you seeing that JAX has the top defense in the league? I see 12th in yards, 18th in points, 30th in turnovers. 21st in DVOA.

I'm sure you'll apologize for talking before doing any research at all.

I did do research, but apparently what I looked up was dated. So I do apologize if that was wrong. Still . . . 12th compared to . . .

 

[kerouac9]

No more shocking than you doubling and tripling down on refusing to acknowledge mitigating circumstances.

LOL. You should really read the whole thread before posting. You're embarrassing yourself. Completely unhinged.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course not, but that doesn't change the fact that by pretty much every objective metric Minshew is playing better football than Kyler Murray.

i would've kept the guy who, up to now, is playing (by many metrics) equivalent football to Kyler Murray and added another piece at a different position.

Then I don’t understand why you’re arguing so much about minshew over kyler. I mean if you don’t prefer him for our team, what’s the point? Other than to argue?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

LOL. You should really read the whole thread before posting. You're embarrassing yourself. Completely unhinged.

Lol, yeah unhinged. This topic is not your best work k9.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree with your first line on Minshew.

Second-line - Factually you are correct about Rosen/Murray right now. Having said that I really like Murray over Rosen today (a hunch watching Murray play this year compared to Rosen so far) and I was a Rosen fan.

I do, too. But I was asked about what I believed at the time, and that's what it was.

Murray probably will be a fine NFL quarterback. He has a few leaps to make before he becomes the transcendent play we were promised. Right now, he is somewhere between an average QB and one of the worst QBs in the NFL. I don't like PFF, but this is what they said about him after last week:

30. Arizona Cardinals
Last Week: 28th

Air Raid? Kyler Murray threw it short of the sticks 79.1% of the time. No other quarterback has been that conservative in a single game since the start of 2016. Apparently, the play design hasn’t helped to turn those throws into chunk plays. He averaged only four yards per attempt. A reason for concern: Even though he threw many short passes, Murray was accurate on only 53.8% of those throws, the 19th-best mark of the week.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-2019-pff-week-4-nfl-power-rankings

 

[kerouac9]

Then I don’t understand why you’re arguing so much about minshew over kyler. I mean if you don’t prefer him for our team, what’s the point? Other than to argue?

Because apparently it's a controversial opinion that Minshew is playing better than Kyler Murray, as evidenced by this thread. This is a message board, where, I suppose, controversial conversations are allowed to be had.

I mean, all the evidence seems to suggest that Minshew is playing better than Murray, but some people can't really bring themselves to say so.

Do you think that Minshew is playing better than Murray right now, Ouchie?

 

[HoodieBets]

Because apparently it's a controversial opinion that Minshew is playing better than Kyler Murray, as evidenced by this thread. This is a message board, where, I suppose, controversial conversations are allowed to be had.

I mean, all the evidence seems to suggest that Minshew is playing better than Murray, but some people can't really bring themselves to say so.

Do you think that Minshew is playing better than Murray right now, Ouchie?

If you think Murray is outplaying minshew then you are really sipping that Red Sea kool aid. It’s okay to say another rookie is having a better year. If you would asking anyone not on this board they would tell you there are two rookie QBs outplaying him. The cardinals have a better RB and WRs then the current starters for both the jags and giants(I say current since Barkley is hurt). Those teams may have a better line but that is what everyone on here said that kyler could mitigate. I don’t get all the excuses when we wouldn’t give them to any other player on this team.


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[kerouac9]

If you think Murray is outplaying minshew then you are really sipping that Red Sea kool aid. It’s okay to say another rookie is having a better year. If you would asking anyone not on this board they would tell you there are two rookie QBs outplaying him. The cardinals have a better RB and WRs then the current starters for both the jags and giants(I say current since Barkley is hurt). Those teams may have a better line but that is what everyone on here said that kyler could mitigate. I don’t get all the excuses when we wouldn’t give them to any other player on this team.


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I mean, I don't think the Giants have that much better a line than us right now. Our RT is a dumpster fire, but I think that everyone else is between a B (Humphries) and C-.

 

[TJ]

If you think Murray is outplaying minshew then you are really sipping that Red Sea kool aid. It’s okay to say another rookie is having a better year. If you would asking anyone not on this board they would tell you there are two rookie QBs outplaying him. The cardinals have a better RB and WRs then the current starters for both the jags and giants(I say current since Barkley is hurt). Those teams may have a better line but that is what everyone on here said that kyler could mitigate. I don’t get all the excuses when we wouldn’t give them to any other player on this team.


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This is a fluid situation, which is why I don't understand why so many people are getting bent out of shape over the topic. The next four games, Kyler could go H.A.M. and Jones and Minshew could struggle, and the conversation at that point would be that Murray is back on track for OROY.

My line of thinking at this time is as follows:

1) I'm disappointed that the #1 overall pick, who plays for my team, is only the third-best rookie QB in the NFL right now

2) It proves one of my points about Murry before the draft that experience in college matters. Both Minshew and Jones had three years of starting experience in college; whereas, Murray only had one. It's likely that their experience is the reason they're off to faster starts. I hope Murray isn't like Mitch Tribusky in that he was only a starter for one season in college and is now mediocre in the NFL.

 

[HoodieBets]

This is a fluid situation, which is why I don't understand why so many people are getting bent out of shape over the topic. The next four games, Kyler could go H.A.M. and Jones and Minshew could struggle, and the conversation at that point would be that Murray is back on track for OROY.

My line of thinking at this time is as follows:

1) I'm disappointed that the #1 overall pick, who plays for my team, is only the third-best rookie QB in the NFL right now

2) It proves one of my points about Murry before the draft that experience in college matters. Both Minshew and Jones had three years of starting experience in college; whereas, Murray only had one. It's likely that their experience is the reason they're off to faster starts. I hope Murray isn't like Mitch Tribusky in that he was only a starter for one season in college and is now mediocre in the NFL.

My worst fear is that Murray ends up being a slightly more accurate Mariotta and we are consistently mediocre and can do nothing about it.


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[kerouac9]

My worst fear is that Murray ends up being a slightly more accurate Mariotta and we are consistently mediocre and can do nothing about it.


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I heard a stat on the Ringer NFL Show that Mariotta has more 0 touchdown games than anyone in the history of the league, or something.

One thing that Arians used to say was that he'd rather have a player he'd have to tell "whoa" than "sic'em." Does Kyler Murray have a killer instinct? We haven't seen one so far.

 

[dscher]

Let me bless you with some facts then

https://www.pro-football-reference....toyear_3=2019&player_id3=JoneDa05&idx=players

This is comparing Murray to Jones and Minshew. Murray is running third behind the others.

Cool..and both of dudes could end up as pretty good QBs as well. I don't know why so many get hung up on the spot guys get picked after the fact. I swear if he was a number 5-10 pick, this probably wouldn't even be a thing. Ahh.. being a Cards fan can be an adventure sometimes. Lol

 

[TJ]

Cool..and both of dudes could end up as pretty good QBs as well. I don't know why so many get hung up on the spot guys get picked after the fact. I swear if he was a number 5-10 pick, this probably wouldn't even be a thing. Ahh.. being a Cards fan can be an adventure sometimes. Lol

And yet, it is a thing.

Murray is the #1 overall pick. It's only fair that he be held to a higher standard than any other draft pick, especially his QB counterparts.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because apparently it's a controversial opinion that Minshew is playing better than Kyler Murray, as evidenced by this thread. This is a message board, where, I suppose, controversial conversations are allowed to be had.

I mean, all the evidence seems to suggest that Minshew is playing better than Murray, but some people can't really bring themselves to say so.

Do you think that Minshew is playing better than Murray right now, Ouchie?

I absolutely do. But I’m not sure I see these posters that are vociferously arguing against that claim. I see more people that want to explore the reasoning therefore and you seem to be dismissive of any/all of it, am I wrong? To read your posts you’d think you believe their respective performances occurred in respective vacuums.

Also this: in a larger universe are you truly concerned that minshew has outperformed kyler over the first four games of their rookie seasons? Eh . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I heard a stat on the Ringer NFL Show that Mariotta has more 0 touchdown games than anyone in the history of the league, or something.

One thing that Arians used to say was that he'd rather have a player he'd have to tell "whoa" than "sic'em." Does Kyler Murray have a killer instinct? We haven't seen one so far.

That’s fair

 

[AZCB34]

With a much better team?? Minshew is simply a game manager

A game manager who has 2 wins...

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I absolutely do. But I’m not sure I see these posters that are vociferously arguing against that claim. I see more people that want to explore the reasoning therefore and you seem to be dismissive of any/all of it, am I wrong? To read your posts you’d think you believe their respective performances occurred in respective vacuums.

Also this: in a larger universe are you truly concerned that minshew has outperformed kyler over the first four games of their rookie seasons? Eh . . .

Really like the last point that you made.

I get that it's fun to talk about where things stand at this point, but I'm way more interested in how this draft class's QBs will compare with each other after four games of the 2020 season (i.e. 20 games into their careers).