Overall, we've had a good offseason. Right Kerr/Sarver bashers?

[mojorizen7]

mojo, would you or George like to show me where I provided my "definition for mission accomplished?" before you roll your eyes at me?

Clarify. My is directed towards an entire thread that seems to be(in my view) an argument that is a vicious cycle of over-analyzing and semantics that seems to be rooted in resentment and loyalty rather than research. There seems to be a division of views on this board that stems from the exit of former HC Mr. Mike D'Antoni.
The haters: I think there are those(myself included) who's opinions on the off-season may be clouded in terms of what is successful based on the relief of his departure....like thats going to be the fix-all for this team.
The apologizers:By the same token, those that would still shine DA's shoes for a quarter seem to be determined to paint everything Kerr does from this point on in a negative way.

^ I just don't think most of us on this board are being very subjective at times due to our allegiance to
a) D'Antoni
b) Kerr/Sarver
It wasn't directed at you only.

 

[nowagimp]

Clarify. My is directed towards an entire thread that seems to be(in my view) an argument that is a vicious cycle of over-analyzing and semantics that seems to be rooted in resentment and loyalty rather than research. There seems to be a division of views on this board that stems from the exit of former HC Mr. Mike D'Antoni.
The haters: I think there are those(myself included) who's opinions on the off-season may be clouded in terms of what is successful based on the relief of his departure....like thats going to be the fix-all for this team.
The apologizers:By the same token, those that would still shine DA's shoes for a quarter seem to be determined to paint everything Kerr does from this point on in a negative way.

^ I just don't think most of us on this board are being very subjective at times due to our allegiance to
a) D'Antoni
b) Kerr/Sarver
It wasn't directed at you only.

I think you have over simplified things a bit. To hate DA is to love Kerr/ Sarver? It appears that way for many DA haters who think DA leaving is the answer to the suns problems. Frankly, I dont think the suns have had enough talent healthy to win, except for the suspension season. I also dont give Kerr a free pass after his dumping of draft picks with an expiring contract. Its already been proven by mitch kupchak that an expiring contract is worth much more than -2 #1's. Kerr will earn his GM title when he shows he has something to offer there. Until then, he's just another unproven GM that screwed up by not getting a bench in '07 after shedding KT/JR, and by making the dumb move of KT + picks for nothing. So far he hasnt done anything noteworthy until some of his moves actually make the team better. Perhaps that will happen this year.

DA already has done better than Kerr as GM(JR+Raja+KT), and the TT FA acquisition in '06. DA also screwed up with marcus banks. And I dont see DA as a good GM, not even close, but Kerr hasnt even performed up to the DA kevel yet.

 

[mojorizen7]

I think you have over simplified things a bit. To hate DA is to love Kerr/ Sarver? It appears that way for many DA haters who think DA leaving is the answer to the suns problems. Frankly, I dont think the suns have had enough talent healthy to win, except for the suspension season. I also dont give Kerr a free pass after his dumping of draft picks with an expiring contract. Its already been proven by mitch kupchak that an expiring contract is worth much more than -2 #1's. Kerr will earn his GM title when he shows he has something to offer there. Until then, he's just another unproven GM that screwed up by not getting a bench in '07 after shedding KT/JR, and by making the dumb move of KT + picks for nothing. So far he hasnt done anything noteworthy until some of his moves actually make the team better. Perhaps that will happen this year.

DA already has done better than Kerr as GM(JR+Raja+KT), and the TT FA acquisition in '06. DA also screwed up with marcus banks. And I dont see DA as a good GM, not even close, but Kerr hasnt even performed up to the DA kevel yet.

I do tend to over simplify things i agree. However....that doesn't change my opinion that there is a general loyalty towards the D'Antoni camp vs the Sarver/Kerr and as a result the Porter camp among the long time SUNS fans on this board.
I can admit my stance and at times, bias judgment....can you?
I doubt it.

 

[msdundee]

I can admit my stance ...

Well, that's good! It would be really hilarious if you denied it.

 

[nowagimp]

I do tend to over simplify things i agree. However....that doesn't change my opinion that there is a general loyalty towards the D'Antoni camp vs the Sarver/Kerr and as a result the Porter camp among the long time SUNS fans on this board.
I can admit my stance and at times, bias judgment....can you?
I doubt it.

I can admit that the 2004-2007 suns were the best suns team in decades, that credit goes to DA. I can also admit that DA wasnt a good GM, can you admit that Kerr has proven nothing there and has no track record. I doubt it, even though it is the indisputable truth. I can also admit that I like Terry Porter, very much so as a former player, tough as nails. There is no reason that he cant be a good NBA coach, but that may take some time(2-3 years). Nothing that happens this year should be dumped on porters doorstep.

At the same time, I dont hold DA responsible for the dissembly of the small ball team, the loss of JJ, or the poor bench. That responsibility over the years goes to Sarver and the last 2 years kerr/sarver. Clearly anyone can see that sarver/Kerr were pulling the strings over the last 2 years.

The one irrational thing about the "DA haters" was that they didnt believe the title could be won with small ball, and even blamed DA for injuries, like incredibly, recovery of a 36 year old from appendicitis. Like an irrational woman struggling with a love/hate relationship, some posters have a love/hate view of the suns and no amount of rational thinking will change their mind. And yet, Hill joined the suns to limit the toll of the potential injuries in an older player. I'll trust Hill to know what coaches cause injuries in older players with their practice schedules. ASFN posters do not have a clue of how it is to be a professional BBall player, Hill knows it well.

If nash declines further this year( probably due to the instroduction of slow ball, which should aggravate nashs weaknesses, and hurt his offensive contributions) and dragic and lopez dont produce above a rookie level, the suns management will have clearly failed in their mission to make the suns better.

I will be happy when the suns are a better team than the suspension team, regardless of who is running/coaching the team. My fear is that it may be a few more decades before the suns are that good.

 

[mojorizen7]

DA already has done better than Kerr as GM(JR+Raja+KT), and the TT FA acquisition in '06. DA also screwed up with marcus banks. And I dont see DA as a good GM, not even close, but Kerr hasnt even performed up to the DA kevel yet.

So now we're comparing DA the GM and Kerr the GM?
That wasn't my point.
D'Antoni was a failure as GM otherwise he wouldn't have been relieved of his duties,or stepped down,whichever way you want to look at it.
Kerr hasn't done anything spectacular either.
The question/statement originally was

Overall, we've had a good offseason. Right Kerr/Sarver bashers?

The answers came in the form of arguing over semantics and incomplete's etc which IMO was rooted in biased feelings rather than actual objectivity.
I can't stand DA as a personality,and as a head coach. Sarver/Kerr haven't proven anything to me yet except that they're trying to take this team in a different direction. That direction/philosophy appears to be in a different direction that DA the GM and HC wanted to go.

I think i gave this offeason a grade of B- earlier in the thread based on filling team needs without much wiggle room from a GM's standpoint.
I stand by that based on both fact(needs were filled).... and my admittedly bias views on D'Umbtoni's mess of running our guys into the ground and inferior playoff coaching(which is debatable but not alltogether untrue).

 

[mojorizen7]

Well, that's good! It would be really hilarious if you denied it.

I wish others could.

 

[mojorizen7]

Sarver/Kerr haven't proven anything to me yet except that they're trying to take this team in a different direction.

can you admit that Kerr has proven nothing there and has no track record. I doubt it, even though it is the indisputable truth.

Beat you to the punch my friend.

 

[nowagimp]

So now we're comparing DA the GM and Kerr the GM?
That wasn't my point.
D'Antoni was a failure as GM otherwise he wouldn't have been relieved of his duties,or stepped down,whichever way you want to look at it.
Kerr hasn't done anything spectacular either.
The question/statement originally was
The answers came in the form of arguing over semantics and incomplete's etc which IMO was rooted in biased feelings rather than actual objectivity.
I can't stand DA as a personality,and as a head coach. Sarver/Kerr haven't proven anything to me yet except that they're trying to take this team in a different direction. That direction/philosophy appears to be in a different direction that DA the GM and HC wanted to go.

I think i gave this offeason a grade of B- earlier in the thread based on filling team needs without much wiggle room from a GM's standpoint.
I stand by that based on both fact(neds were filled).... and my admittedly bias views on D'Umbtoni's mess of running our guys into the ground and inferior playoff coaching(which is debatable but not alltogether untrue).

I dont have a personality problem with sarver/Kerr, you do with DA, its not based on rational thought obviously. You are obviously happy with anything NOT DA(another direction), another signal of irrationality. Its not that simple, its about winning, the bench and the pieces, and "another direction" you speak of has been tried for quite a few years and failed without a tim duncan, ben wallace or a younger shaq(the miami championship was a bit of a freak with the officiating mess). The suns have an "old as dirt" shaq, and a buch of mediocre defenders. The formula of a youngish dominant center to lead the defensive team is not in place for these suns. They will look different, but they likely dont have the pieces to pull that one off. Last year it was only a championship will do, this year 2 wins in the playoffs(with hill healthy will do), that an irrational love/hate relationship for you.

 

[nowagimp]

Beat you to the punch my friend.

So you are happy with 2 severely challenged GM's(DA, Kerr) in a row? Must be nice to be happy with that after the suns corporate struggles. I cant agree, I havent forgiven DA for agreeing to sell the #7 in '04 and I haven forgiven sarver for messing with JJ in contract negotiations(very donald sterling like: brand), or kerr/sarver for the KT+ 2 #1's for nothing.

Another thing that is highly correlated with championships, the excellence of the front office(SA, Detroit, Boston, Lakers). I just dont think the suns have the smarts to compete there.

 

[mojorizen7]

You are obviously happy with anything NOT DA(another direction), another signal of irrationality

How is it irrational to be all for going in another direction?

and "another direction" you speak of has been tried for quite a few years

This statement is untrue and i shouldn't have to explain why to anybody.

So you are happy with 2 severely challenged GM's(DA, Kerr) in a row?

Gimme a break. YOu are a debater

You must be registered for see images

.
Go shine D'Umbtoni's shoes.
When you decide to objectively discuss an issue linstead of putting words in my mouth let me know.

 

[HooverDam]

Another thing that is highly correlated with championships, the excellence of the front office(SA, Detroit, Boston, Lakers). I just dont think the suns have the smarts to compete there.

Boston? Danny Ainge was on the hot seat and was about to be run out of town before this past season. He ended up being in the right place at the right time, and I think the Celtics offseason was perhaps more due to luck and timing than Danny Ainge being some great GM.

 

[SirStefan32]

I dont have a personality problem with sarver/Kerr, you do with DA, its not based on rational thought obviously. You are obviously happy with anything NOT DA(another direction), another signal of irrationality. Its not that simple, its about winning, the bench and the pieces, and "another direction" you speak of has been tried for quite a few years and failed without a tim duncan, ben wallace or a younger shaq(the miami championship was a bit of a freak with the officiating mess). The suns have an "old as dirt" shaq, and a buch of mediocre defenders. The formula of a youngish dominant center to lead the defensive team is not in place for these suns. They will look different, but they likely dont have the pieces to pull that one off. Last year it was only a championship will do, this year 2 wins in the playoffs(with hill healthy will do), that an irrational love/hate relationship for you.

What are you talking about? It is irrational to focus on defense? Is it rational to play a 7 men rotation all year? Is it rational to play no defense? Is it rational to play with 3 guards, a small forward and a power forward?

Yeah, shame on Kerr/Sarver/Porter for focusing on defense and a deeper rotation. They must be irrational, since we all know that defense and deep rotation never ever won anything.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Clarify. My is directed towards an entire thread that seems to be(in my view) an argument that is a vicious cycle of over-analyzing and semantics that seems to be rooted in resentment and loyalty rather than research. There seems to be a division of views on this board that stems from the exit of former HC Mr. Mike D'Antoni.
The haters: I think there are those(myself included) who's opinions on the off-season may be clouded in terms of what is successful based on the relief of his departure....like thats going to be the fix-all for this team.
The apologizers:By the same token, those that would still shine DA's shoes for a quarter seem to be determined to paint everything Kerr does from this point on in a negative way.

^ I just don't think most of us on this board are being very subjective at times due to our allegiance to
a) D'Antoni
b) Kerr/Sarver
It wasn't directed at you only.

I think you forgot a group: those who have no allegiance to either D'A and Kerr/Sarver. That's pretty much where I find myself. D'A needed to go, but I don't believe in Kerr either. Sarver's starting to turn the corner on me with his shelling out past the tax limit, but he's still got a ways to go to really completely gain my trust.

 

[mojorizen7]

I think you forgot a group: those who have no allegiance to either D'A and Kerr/Sarver. That's pretty much where I find myself. D'A needed to go, but I don't believe in Kerr either. Sarver's starting to turn the corner on me with his shelling out past the tax limit, but he's still got a ways to go to really completely gain my trust.

Fair enough Cheese.

 

[Irish]

With the trade for Singletary, it appears their roster is set baring some unexpected trades.

New

Lopez
Dragic
Barnes
Amundson
Singletary
Tucker (somehow 6 games is not really a returning guy)

Experinced (under 30)

Stoudemire
Diaw
Barbosa

Older (over 30)

Nash
O'Neal
Hill
Bell

The Suns aren't necessarily better, but they are a lot younger. Hill's deal ends next summer (probably will go on as long he's interested on a year to year basis). Nash, O'Neal, and Bell all go of contract in 2010.