Pace signed!

[Cheesebeef]

Re: Re: Re: Tough Oats

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Sez who?

Show me the frikkin offers.

It says he was right in the freaking ARTICLE! Do you read only what you want to read?

"Up until Sunday, the Cardinals were on similar negotiating paths with both of their first-round choices, offering each of them guaranteed money of about $4.4 million. But the team's emphasis then shifted to Pace, after team officials reportedly assessed that getting him into camp was more critical, and their offer increased significantly."

JESUS MAN! Oh but Len Pasquerrelli has a vendeta against the Cards and probably just made this up right? ********!

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by Lex
Progress is a good thing.

Bells and whistles for Pace is a good thing.

Since we're now short in the rookie pool, we'll have to get creative again for BJ, and that's a good thing.

Understated, but very appropriate. Has everyone decided that the Cards can't possibly have a contingent plan in place to overcome this obstacle?. Why don't we wait to hear from Graves as to what they plan on doing?

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Understated, but very appropriate. Has everyone decided that the Cards can't possibly have a contingent plan in place to overcome this obstacle?. Why don't we wait to hear from Graves as to what they plan on doing?

If that's true, then that's great. But, they apparently hadn't informed Johnson and their agent of the plan as of the time the article was written. Hopefully, they are on the phone right now getting things straightened out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
If it works out here quickly, then I agree the contract structure is a good thing (at least until they address rookie signings during the next owner/nflpa face to face).

If it leads to a September signing of our top pick, then it's a pile of crap.


The notion that we don't need him in camp is utterly ridiculous.

absolutely - you don't draft a guy in the first round to have him sit AT A POSITION OF CONSIDERBALE NEED! All our recievers are unproven commodities at this point and we need THE MOST TALENTED GUYS IN THERE NOW! Some of you will go to any lengths the protect this team - I'm serious - you seem to have battered wife syndrome. Let's see how all this plays out with Johnson, but man am I shaking my head right now.

Well, at least Pace is in camp -and that is a positive - I just hope he's worth it.

 

[Jttsaz]

The salary cap value of the deal is $1.275 million, which will have a major impact on the Johnson negotiations. Johnson was actually selected ahead of Pace -- 17th in the first round. Pace's deal leaves the Cardinals with about only $975,000 remaining from their original rookie pool allocation of $3.955 million.


that is a difference of $300K...Plus you take into account BJ's slot difference...maybe they could back load the deal to compensate? I guess we will find out soon enough..I think overall it's good news but I'm not quite sure what the Cards are up to....

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
I was under the impression that most people on this board thought that getting Pace in was more important right now than getting Johnson in? Didn't I hear a lot of people moaning about the Cards should just do the deal and quit screwing around? Don't we have 12 WR's trying out right now without Johnson?

Give the Cards their due. They hit Pace with an offer he couldn't refuse. They did just as many on this board suggest they do. If that meant having a problem signing Johnson, should they just have let negotiations drag on trying to get both, or were they better locking the most important one down?

I applaud their decision.

Here's an idea . . .

how about getting them both in. Over the many decades that the National Football League has been in existence, other teams have consistently been able to work with these extortionist agents to get all players signed on time.

 

[Tangodnzr]

You evidently need to do your homework on capology 101, LV.

Signing Bonuses are pro-rated over the length of the contract. The Cards are not limited to only 900,000 as you claim.

There are still a lot of different options available.
.....and as has already been pointed out:
1. - No one outside the parties involved know exactly what offers have been made or rejected\
2. - The Cards have shown they are now indeed willing to be more progressive in their negotiating options.

You negative people never cease to crack me up with your darkside hallucinations.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Understated, but very appropriate. Has everyone decided that the Cards can't possibly have a contingent plan in place to overcome this obstacle?.

I pretty sure not everyone.

 

[jf-08]

By doing this, I think we still can give Braynt a bigger signing bonus than Pace, but would have to sign him to at least a 6 year deal in order to prorate it out.

The cap hit then would be spread out for 6 years.

 

[Sandan]

You are right, RG has not thought this through and has no plan.

 

[Dback Jon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Tough Oats

Originally posted by cheesebeef
It says he was right in the freaking ARTICLE! Do you read only what you want to read?

"Up until Sunday, the Cardinals were on similar negotiating paths with both of their first-round choices, offering each of them guaranteed money of about $4.4 million. But the team's emphasis then shifted to Pace, after team officials reportedly assessed that getting him into camp was more critical, and their offer increased significantly."

JESUS MAN! Oh but Len Pasquerrelli has a vendeta against the Cards and probably just made this up right? ********!

Yes, Len Pasquerrelli is the word of God - he was in all the negotiating sessions.

Cheesy - Len may be right, but I have seen such shoddy reporting by national sports writers on the Cardinals I take anything they say with a grain of salt. This doesn't mean I think he has a vendetta against the Cards, but probably doesn't care about them either.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by Lex
Progress is a good thing.

Bells and whistles for Pace is a good thing.

Since we're now short in the rookie pool, we'll have to get creative again for BJ, and that's a good thing.

Progress under who's definition?

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by jkf296
By doing this, I think we still can give Braynt a bigger signing bonus than Pace, but would have to sign him to at least a 6 year deal in order to prorate it out.

The cap hit then would be spread out for 6 years.

Now wouldn't that be a shame and that's probably what his agent is pissed about. He can't angle for a short term contract now, he has to sign a long term deal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by nidan
You are right, RG has not thought this through and has no plan.

FINALLY YOU SEE THE LIGHT!

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Tough Shiet

It ain't bull$hit Cheese....it's tough $hit.....you must think BJ is the second coming....both were offered the 4.4......BJ didn't sign.......were you in the negotiations?......do you think maybe BJ's agent gave them the impression he wasn't gonna sign?........naaaaaaa....it's them damn Cards fault......Pace's agent worked with us and BJ's didn't.....oh.....I know....we offered Pace more just because we thought he was a better player.....don't need BJ anyway.....BJ won't sign no matter what.....or we're just plain stupid......it's gotta be your answer Cheese....we're just plain stupid....we're the Cards.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Re: Tough Shiet

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
It ain't bull$hit Cheese....it's tough $hit.....you must think BJ is the second coming....both were offered the 4.4......BJ didn't sign.......were you in the negotiations?......do you think maybe BJ's agent gave them the impression he wasn't gonna sign?........naaaaaaa....it's them damn Cards fault......Pace's agent worked with us and BJ's didn't.....oh.....I know....we offered Pace more just because we thought he was a better player.....don't need BJ anyway.....BJ won't sign no matter what.....or we're just plain stupid......it's gotta be your answer Cheese....we're just plain stupid....we're the Cards.

now you're getting it! Today is gonna be a fun day. Battered Fan syndrome.

 

[Sandan]

I see by the that even you don't believe it.

I think the 6-7 year deal that will now be required is what his agent is pissed about. They probably wanted a 4-5 deal for earlier FA $$.

Can't happen now, there is no cap room, so the deal is likely to be a longer term one and I suspect they are pissed about it.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
You evidently need to do your homework on capology 101, LV.

Signing Bonuses are pro-rated over the length of the contract. The Cards are not limited to only 900,000 as you claim.

There are still a lot of different options available.
.....and as has already been pointed out:
1. - No one outside the parties involved know exactly what offers have been made or rejected\
2. - The Cards have shown they are now indeed willing to be more progressive in their negotiating options.

You negative people never cease to crack me up with your darkside hallucinations.

Okay, Tango. It seems to me you never, ever EVER have anything negative to say about this team. Ever. You're the eternal optimist. I'm a bit of a pessimist, though I do clap my hands once in a while when things go well.

When I saw that pace had signed, I was prepared to go through the roof with joy, to say that we finally got something done, to be HAPPY. Hell, I was even going to say screw national perception and the missed time, he didn't miss too much. Then I actually read the whole story.

Now, Tango, I want to ask you a simple question. What will you say if Johnson is still not signed by a reasonable amount of time? Say by next week, or mid-August, or even later? Will you blame Johnson? His agent? Will you think this whole thing with offering Pace more was a good idea? Or a bad idea? Will you blame the Cards for it? Do you EVER blame the Cards?

Tell you what. If Johnson signs in the next few days, and there seems to be no acrimonious feelings, then I'll apologize and say there was a 'plan' to this fiasco, and it was a good one. Will you agree to say you were wrong if this doesn't happen? Or will you just ignore the facts and continue with blind optimism?

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by red desert
Here's an idea . . .

how about getting them both in. Over the many decades that the National Football League has been in existence, other teams have consistently been able to work with these extortionist agents to get all players signed on time.

That's a crock!!!
The rookie salary situation has been out of hand for quite some time now. The problem has been there are always short-sighted, greedy owners, some with money to burn, that have continued to overpay these rookies and their greedy agents demands.
Finally time started catching up with them, as it had got to the point that proven, veteran players were ultimately getting the short end of the stick, because of the over paid rookies and limited budjets of MOST teams.
Several teams "progressive" signing policies mortgaged their future into cap hell with their lack of foresight. ...and of course there are always idiots like Daniel Snyder to increase the idiot pool.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
You evidently need to do your homework on capology 101, LV.

Signing Bonuses are pro-rated over the length of the contract. The Cards are not limited to only 900,000 as you claim.

There are still a lot of different options available.
.....and as has already been pointed out:
1. - No one outside the parties involved know exactly what offers have been made or rejected\
2. - The Cards have shown they are now indeed willing to be more progressive in their negotiating options.

You negative people never cease to crack me up with your darkside hallucinations.

Do I ? Well thanks for the lesson, since you seem to know it all! Yes of course thewre are othe roptions, but my point is, when have the cardinals ever used these options and even if tyhey did at this point.

For example: They can offer Johnson guaranteed money throught he first 3 years of the contract. Problem is, if Sully cuts his ass, you still pay for three years. The Jets and Bills do this but only on sure-fire guys (Spikes and Pennington). Do you really want to do this for Bryant JOhnson?

Second, fact is the rookie pool left is $900,00-PERIOD! Yes it can be spread out over the life of a contract as counting against the cap, but the most money he will have in check form THIS YEAR as guarnateed is $900,000. -Unless they sign him to what a 6-7 year deal! Yes they can do two-tier bonus and give him another $million next year-whatever. Bt why do that? You were picked ahead of Pace and have to wait until next year for your bonus that he already has?? MAKES ZERO SENSE!

This BS about whon they want in camp is ridiculous. YOU people act as if this team lives in a vacumm. "Oh no other team has ever had two first round picks!!!" PUHLEEASE! Of coiurse they have and other teams dont say well we need player A so forget about Player B

Tango, try to stick with writing more love poems to Jake -somethign you actually seemt o be good at!!!

 

[CardinalChris]

Make his Tier bonus larger or give him easy incentives that count on NEXT year's cap, but keep his rookie number under the rookie cap.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by nidan
I see by the that even you don't believe it.

I think the 6-7 year deal that will now be required is what his agent is pissed about. They probably wanted a 4-5 deal for earlier FA $$.

Can't happen now, there is no cap room, so the deal is likely to be a longer term one and I suspect they are pissed about it.

It doesn't have to be. It can be "voidable" to five or four. Pace's deal is it's the team's option to pick up the last year. Johnson' deal would probably require the same thing, and that will be the stumbling block, if there is one, not the length.

Also, the can give a big roster bonus for year 2 of the deal, within the 4 to 5 year frame. Many ways to go about this.

 

[Sandan]

Stout, I think BJ's options just got a lot smaller.

He can get a fair contract easily enough but he is going to have to sign a long term deal and is pissed about that. That is his agents fault, the agent should have seen this coming and signed quickly, then Pace would be the one with the problem.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
That's a crock!!!
The rookie salary situation has been out of hand for quite some time now. The problem has been there are always short-sighted, greedy owners, some with money to burn, that have continued to overpay these rookies and their greedy agents demands.
Finally time started catching up with them, as it had got to the point that proven, veteran players were ultimately getting the short end of the stick, because of the over paid rookies and limited budjets of MOST teams.
Several teams "progressive" signing policies mortgaged their future into cap hell with their lack of foresight. ...and of course there are always idiots like Daniel Snyder to increase the idiot pool.

How is it that most anything Rod Graves does just splits us down the middle to the point of internet strangulation? Well at least he definetly gives us soemthing to talk about. WAY TO GO GRAVES! YOU'VE MADE THE OFFSEASON ENTERTAINING!

 

[Sandan]

Good point the last year (or 2) could be voidable but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

Escalators or 2 stage SB seem reasonably likely now, but I suspect the RG will fight on voidables.