Pacquiao/Mayweather fight in Jeopardy..

[AsUdUdE]

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-boximpasse122209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Apparently PAC-man does not want to be tested for steroids within 48 hours of the fight because he hates needles and believes it is bad for his body...

What a joke.. Any healthcare professional will tell you it has NO AFFECT on your body... his fight promoter says he will get tested after the fight, but not before, and mayweather says he will not fight unless acman agrees to the testing....

Both are admit about their positions, and IMO, it really sounds like PAC-ma may be trying to find a way out of the fight....


hopefully he comes around, but this has made me SERIOUSLY doubt Pacquiao....

 

[Milgod]

If it was Mayweather saying what Pacman is then this board would be filled with people claiming he is trying to duck the fight.

We'll see what happens here.

 

[Big D]

I love Manny, hell I spent a pretty penny in '08 going to his 2nd fight w/ Marquez in March and the De la Hoya fight in Dec. I am a Pacquiao fan. (I'm a Floyd fan too) I want to believe he's clean as much as anybody...HOWEVER, if he does not agree to the Olympic style testing meaning RANDOM tests, not just taking tests when he wants to, I will lose A LOT of respect for him.

It sucks that we are in a day and age in sports where you are basically presumed guilty unless you prove otherwise but that is just a reality of the times we live in. There are too many pro athletes breaking too many records using too many designer drugs and it's gotten to the point where you just don't know what's real anymore when you see a guy do all kinds of things that have never been done before.

This fight stands to be the biggest fight the sport has seen since the 80s. There is too much money on the line and more importantly the credibility of the sport itself to not have complete transparency and thoroughness drug testing wise from its participants. Boxing can not afford ANY cloud of suspicion or speculation surrounding its most important fight in 25 years and its most lucrative fight in history. This is bigger than Manny and Floyd IMO.

Manny's camp is saying they will not do any type of blood testing within 30 days of the fight which sounds a bit shady. The current excuse they are giving is "superstition" which sounds REALLY shady. Manny has several tats including one he gave to himself so I highly doubt he has some fear of needles. Floyd already agreed to a $10 million penalty per lb if he comes in over-weight which was a pretty outrageous and unprcedented demand from the Pacquiao camp. I just don't see any reason why Manny would not agree to the Olympic style random testing if he truly has nothing to hide.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I love Manny, hell I spent a pretty penny in '08 going to his 2nd fight w/ Marquez in March and the De la Hoya fight in Dec. I am a Pacquiao fan. (I'm a Floyd fan too) I want to believe he's clean as much as anybody...HOWEVER, if he does not agree to the Olympic style testing meaning RANDOM tests, not just taking tests when he wants to, I will lose A LOT of respect for him.

It sucks that we are in a day and age in sports where you are basically presumed guilty unless you prove otherwise but that is just a reality of the times we live in. There are too many pro athletes breaking too many records using too many designer drugs and it's gotten to the point where you just don't know what's real anymore when you see a guy do all kinds of things that have never been done before.

This fight stands to be the biggest fight the sport has seen since the 80s. There is too much money on the line and more importantly the credibility of the sport itself to not have complete transparency and thoroughness drug testing wise from its participants. Boxing can not afford ANY cloud of suspicion or speculation surrounding its most important fight in 25 years and its most lucrative fight in history. This is bigger than Manny and Floyd IMO.

Manny's camp is saying they will not do any type of blood testing within 30 days of the fight which sounds a bit shady. The current excuse they are giving is "superstition" which sounds REALLY shady. Manny has several tats including one he gave to himself so I highly doubt he has some fear of needles. Floyd already agreed to a $10 million penalty per lb if he comes in over-weight which was a pretty outrageous and unprcedented demand from the Pacquiao camp. I just don't see any reason why Manny would not agree to the Olympic style random testing if he truly has nothing to hide.

Well said D. I'm a Manny fan as well... who isn't. But his position so far on the drug testing is very very suspect. Hate to admit but it really does call into question his recent accomplishments. I mean, what he's done and how he's done it is so far above anything else that has ever been accomplished in the sport, even without this drug-testing cloud I couldn't help but feel a small twinge of doubt with regard to the potential of Manny using PED's. He moved up so much in weight, and yet has gotten stronger with each fight. I'd love to believe he is totally legit, but I have to say his stance on drug-testing is causing me to seriously doubt him.

Roach said he doesn't want Manny to have to draw blood before the fight not only because of some weird superstition, but that it would "weaken" Manny... I dunno... I guess I can understand that concern as Roach said they were wanting to draw the blood 3 days before the fight. But if it's 30 days before, I really don't see what the big deal is...

And oddly enough, through this issue I have come to respect Floyd more than I ever have before. I've always respected his boxing skills... however, I just never liked his style and his out of the ring crap. But, he's been a stand-up man through all of this. And he is extremely confident and seems extremely hell-bent on beating the crap out of Manny. Moreso than I have ever seen from him in any previous fight!
Somehow this will get worked out. As you said, this fight has the potential to be a record-breaker. Right up there with Leonard-Hearns, Leonard-Hagler, Hagler-Hearns, Leonard-Duran... Incredible, incredible, incredible amounts of money to be made....

 

[Russ Smith]

I see both sides of it, it is odd that Manny won't do it. His trainer says Manny is squeamish about needles, but willing to do a blood test after the fight. That doesn't compute if he's willing to do it after, he should be willing to do it before. his trainer said blood tests can't be done for HGH anyways so what's the point, not true they've been blood testing for HGH since the 04 Olympics.

As for the random aspect, Manny already gets tested randomly, just urine though not blood. He's been tested repeatedly for years with urine. He gave a blood sample before the Cotto fight because he had to be certified in Nevada, but they didn't test the blood for PED's just for HIV and other diseases that fall under Nevada boxing rules.

Now the other side, from what I've read Manny's thing about needles is well known, so for the people saying Manny is looking for a way out of the fight, it could also be that Mayweather is and seized on this as the way? Before his dad said it had anybody heard any whispers at all about Manny and PED's?


I think in the best interests of the sport they should both be thoroughly tested before the fight but as long as Manny agrees to testing after the fight I don't see why it's a dealbreaker. They can simply put into the contract that if either fighter tests positive for PED's after the fight they will forfeit the fight and forfeit their share of the purse.

But like others I have to admit if this fight falls through because of this it does cast some doubt on Manny.

 

[Big D]

Well now according to Dan Rafael the blood test time-frame is a fluid situation. Basically he's saying that Manny agreed to blood testing but he doesn't want it to be random, anytime 24/7 type testing model that the USADA uses. He says its his understanding that Manny would be ok with in-camp, set schedule blood tests. To me it sounds like he wants to know exactly when he is going to be tested which still raises suspicions.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I see both sides of it, it is odd that Manny won't do it. His trainer says Manny is squeamish about needles, but willing to do a blood test after the fight. That doesn't compute if he's willing to do it after, he should be willing to do it before. his trainer said blood tests can't be done for HGH anyways so what's the point, not true they've been blood testing for HGH since the 04 Olympics.

As for the random aspect, Manny already gets tested randomly, just urine though not blood. He's been tested repeatedly for years with urine. He gave a blood sample before the Cotto fight because he had to be certified in Nevada, but they didn't test the blood for PED's just for HIV and other diseases that fall under Nevada boxing rules.

Now the other side, from what I've read Manny's thing about needles is well known, so for the people saying Manny is looking for a way out of the fight, it could also be that Mayweather is and seized on this as the way? Before his dad said it had anybody heard any whispers at all about Manny and PED's?


I think in the best interests of the sport they should both be thoroughly tested before the fight but as long as Manny agrees to testing after the fight I don't see why it's a dealbreaker. They can simply put into the contract that if either fighter tests positive for PED's after the fight they will forfeit the fight and forfeit their share of the purse.

But like others I have to admit if this fight falls through because of this it does cast some doubt on Manny.

Manny has tats all over his body... he gave one to himself. "Fear" of needles just doesn't compute Russ...

And, I saw an interview with Floyd recently...I think it's safe to say he is absolutely not looking for a way out of this fight. He truly feels he can knock out Manny. He doesn't see any way Manny will be standing when the final bell rings in the 12th round.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well now according to Dan Rafael the blood test time-frame is a fluid situation. Basically he's saying that Manny agreed to blood testing but he doesn't want it to be random, anytime 24/7 type testing model that the USADA uses. He says its his understanding that Manny would be ok with in-camp, set schedule blood tests. To me it sounds like he wants to know exactly when he is going to be tested which still raises suspicions.

Yup...

 

[Milgod]

He doesn't see any way Manny will be standing when the final bell rings in the 12th round.

Neither can I.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Manny has agreed to all sorts of testing just not random meaning in the middle of the night. Seems fair. Its not like you can clean your body in 12 hours or less notice so the normal routine of testing should be fine for everyone involved.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Manny Pacquiao to sue Floyd Mayweather

SARANGANI, Philippines, Dec. 26 (UPI) --

Welterweight boxing champion Manny Pacquiao says he will file libel, slander and defamation suits against challenger Floyd Mayweather Jr.

The suits, which will include Oscar de la Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions, will follow an impasse during negotiations for a March 13 Pacquiao-Mayweather title fight.

Mayweather claimed Pacquiao would not comply with Olympic style drug testing as outlined and mandated by the United States Anti Doping Agency.

"Enough is enough," Pacquiao said Friday on his Web site. "These people … think it is a joke and have a right to accuse someone wrongly of using steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs. I think they have gone overboard. I maintain and assure everyone that I have not used any form or kind of steroids."

Pacquiao added he would enlist the help of Top Rank's Bob Arum, the original promoter of the multi-million dollar bout.

 

[Russ Smith]

Manny has tats all over his body... he gave one to himself. "Fear" of needles just doesn't compute Russ...

And, I saw an interview with Floyd recently...I think it's safe to say he is absolutely not looking for a way out of this fight. He truly feels he can knock out Manny. He doesn't see any way Manny will be standing when the final bell rings in the 12th round.

My girlfriends parents are Filipino and both huge Manny fans. They think he's superstitious more than anything, which is pretty common in the Philippines.
But of course they have a bias, he's a folk hero to them.

I would say this, if he follows through on the threat to sue Mayweather I'll be more inclined to believe he's serious but it won't prove anything. Lance Armstrong has been suing people for years and has won several of them, he's still never proven he's clean to the satisfaction of everyone. Whenever someone says I'm going to sue for defamation and then doesn't sue, I tend to assume they're not telling the truth.

I will say this, unless there was some known within the boxing community but not nationally known allegations against Manny it does seem like this just sort of came out of nowhere? all of a sudden Mayweathers dad brings up PED's and they won't fight without Olympic style testing which is not standard. As I said before if both sides agreed to forfeit their purse if they tested positive after the fight I don't see the problem? THat's why I say I can see both sides, I can see Mayweather wanting thorough testing, but I can see why Manny would rather do it after the fight than before, he's apparently convinced giving blood that close to a fight will weaken him. Whether it really does or not is irrelevant. Boxing is full of such things such as fighters can't have sex while training.

All they have to do is agree that after the fight both will provide blood to be tested and the purse won't be paid out until they both pass the test.

Right now it just seems way too many things are going on and it does look odd that Manny is willing to skip the fight because of the blood test before stipulation.

Too bad I think it would have been a great fight.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Manny is agreeing to planty of testing. If he wants to make a few mil more by suing mayweather sr and jr for opening their stupids mouths far too often than good for him!

 

[Russ Smith]

Manny is agreeing to planty of testing. If he wants to make a few mil more by suing mayweather sr and jr for opening their stupids mouths far too often than good for him!

The crawl on ESPN says the fight may be back on. The Mayweather camp might agree to 3 prior tests as had been previously offered by Manny and refused by Mayweather. Says the fight would tentatively be March 13.

Hope it happens.

 

[O]

There's way to much money at stake for this not to happen.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Fight is off per the promoters. Both fighters scheduling different fights.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Fight is off per the promoters. Both fighters scheduling different fights.

Incredible... and, I have to say that the fact that this fight won't happen furthers my suspicions about Pacman...

 

[CaptTurbo]

yeah me too 82.

 

[CaptTurbo]

But is there something you can take that would really help you and not be caught between 26 days to the fight and the fight itself?

Essentially that would be the only time you can do something and not be caught. 26 days. Not sure what could help that quickly and not be seen in the tests right after the fight. And it has to be found in the blood because pacman has agreed to surprise unlimited pee testing all the way up to the fight.

So what drug makes you bigger, stronger that:
1) only needs 25 days to work
2) completely out of your system on the 26th day
3) can only be detected with a blood test.

I dont know of any steroid or HGH that can do this.

 

[82CardsGrad]

But is there something you can take that would really help you and not be caught between 26 days to the fight and the fight itself?

Essentially that would be the only time you can do something and not be caught. 26 days. Not sure what could help that quickly and not be seen in the tests right after the fight. And it has to be found in the blood because pacman has agreed to surprise unlimited pee testing all the way up to the fight.

So what drug makes you bigger, stronger that:
1) only needs 25 days to work
2) completely out of your system on the 26th day
3) can only be detected with a blood test.

I dont know of any steroid or HGH that can do this.

Don't know... I am wondering if Pacman simply doesn't want to risk being caught, period... Has he gotten away with it thus far by simply peeing in a cup (if it was his urine at all...)?
I don't want to believe this, but Manny has done nothing to make me feel any different...

 

[azsportsfan01]

I still believe this fight will happen. But don't put all the blame on Pacquiao. Mayweather is at fault for this too. He wanted all this extra testing that is unnecessary. The biggest problem here is the promoters. Bob Arum and Mayweather hate each other. Top Rank and Golden Boy Promotions fought over the rights to promote Manny a couple of years ago. These guys just don't like each other and are letting it get in the way of a ton of cash. Like I said, too much money to be made for this not to happen.

 

[hsandhu]

pacquio gave up 50 million to avoid a blood test, hmm...

 

[AsUdUdE]

But is there something you can take that would really help you and not be caught between 26 days to the fight and the fight itself?

Essentially that would be the only time you can do something and not be caught. 26 days. Not sure what could help that quickly and not be seen in the tests right after the fight. And it has to be found in the blood because pacman has agreed to surprise unlimited pee testing all the way up to the fight.

So what drug makes you bigger, stronger that:
1) only needs 25 days to work
2) completely out of your system on the 26th day
3) can only be detected with a blood test.

I dont know of any steroid or HGH that can do this.

I had a tumor that knocked out my pituitary gland in my brain and consequently I have been on Steroid shots for the last 13 months and will be on them for the rest of my life...

I can tell you from personal experience, there are a TON of HGH and steroid products, some that can absolutely work for "X" amount of days and can be out of your system by day "X"..

That is why it is IMPARRTIVE for PACMAN to know exactly when the tests are going to be, so he would know when and how much HGH he can take... I have used gels in the past, but mostly it is injections that work the best and fastest.... So if Pacman knows when the test are, he can inject have it burn fast and heavy, and be out of his system, by the 26th day, yet the results are still there for the fight...

I monitor my levels 3 times a month, I constantly have to worry about where I am, so I know my body, and know exactly how much I can take and when my next dosage will need to be, and so does PACMAN...

This is why I am SURE about where I stand, and yet there are still a great many blaming Mayweather for being scared... I don't get it....

 

[Russ Smith]

I had a tumor that knocked out my pituitary gland in my brain and consequently I have been on Steroid shots for the last 13 months and will be on them for the rest of my life...

I can tell you from personal experience, there are a TON of HGH and steroid products, some that can absolutely work for "X" amount of days and can be out of your system by day "X"..

That is why it is IMPARRTIVE for PACMAN to know exactly when the tests are going to be, so he would know when and how much HGH he can take... I have used gels in the past, but mostly it is injections that work the best and fastest.... So if Pacman knows when the test are, he can inject have it burn fast and heavy, and be out of his system, by the 26th day, yet the results are still there for the fight...

I monitor my levels 3 times a month, I constantly have to worry about where I am, so I know my body, and know exactly how much I can take and when my next dosage will need to be, and so does PACMAN...

This is why I am SURE about where I stand, and yet there are still a great many blaming Mayweather for being scared... I don't get it....

But the situations are completely different, you have a medical reason to do it and that's why you're monitoring the situation. There is absolutely no evidence that Manny uses HGH, there's no more evidence he does than Mayweather does. Nobody said anything about it until Mayweathers dad did, the same dad that has a history of popping off. He also was in prison for drug trafficking so it does seem a bit odd that HE is the one making accusations. Even Mayweather himself has fired his father more than once.

People cite weight with Manny, Mayweather first fought as an amateur at 106 pounds when he was 16 years old. Manny started his amateur career at 106 pounds at the age of 16. Manny moved all the way up to welterweight where he beat DeLaHoya, he weighed in at 142 for the fight, 5 pounds below the cutoff. Mayweather beat DeLahoya one year earlier in a junior middleweight fight where Mayweather weighed in at 154 pounds. Mayweather is an inch and a half taller, and one year older. So if Manny's weight gain and size increase suggests he used HGH, why doesn't Mayweather? I'd say 12 pounds is a huge difference between the two, if Manny's weight gain is suspicious, 12 pounds more in one less year has to be even more suspicious?

I have no idea if either of them dopes, I hope not. But Freddie Roach says they offered to take a blood test 7 days from the fightand Mayweathers camp never responded. Mayweather says he offered to meet halfway Manny's 30, his day of the fight and offered 14 days and Manny refused. We have no way of knowing who is telling the truth.

Mayweather has had a rep his whole career of ducking fights. Both fought and dominated DeLaHoya, both fought and knocked out Hatton, Mayweather in the 10th, Manny in the 2nd.

If you actually look at Manny's history you'll see the first 2 fights he lost in both cases he failed to make weight at 112 pounds. So it's not like he jumped from 106 to 142 overnight, he kept moving up as he got older and gained weight which has happened to tons of fighters. He also had a completely different upbringing than Mayweather. Manny was dirt poor, didn't finish elementary school and it took years before he got actual quality training.Mayweather is of course from a boxing family and was essentially trained to box from a young age. Is it really surprising that Manny's career has a different trajectory?

I just don't see any evidence that says there's a valid reason to be accusing Manny of anything given the similarities in weight to the very guy accusing him of it.

 

[azsportsfan01]

This is why I am SURE about where I stand, and yet there are still a great many blaming Mayweather for being scared... I don't get it....

People blame Mayweather because he has a history of ducking opponents when they are at their peak. All this steroid mess started because of his father, who he didn't talk to until recently. For some reason he picked up on this, though it is quite smart to. No matter what happens Manny comes out looking the fool. He doesn't want to do the testing, something that is rarely ever done in boxing. Manny says he doesn't want to do it, and he is instantly thought of as a steroid cheat. It is an absolute no win situation for Pacquiao.

Both sides are to blame for this, not just one. As I have said, this fight will happen. Whether the fight is March 13th or later this year I don't know, but it will happen. Too much cash.