Pacquiao/Mayweather fight in Jeopardy..

[82CardsGrad]

Russ, FWIW, Mayweather's first pro fight he weighed in at 131 pounds. When he fought DelaHoya 11 years later, he weighed in at exactly 150 pounds.
Manny's first pro fight he weighed in at 106. 14 years later, he weighed in at 144 and pounded Cotto into submission.
Mayweather's is a 14% weight gain over his lowest weight. Manny's is a 36% weight gain over his lowest weight.
And most interesting to me is that, while Mayweather continues to win, he is NOT showing any signs of being physically stronger as he's put on weight. Whereas Manny has shown that he has gotten much stronger and is beating up guys now who are all naturally bigger and stronger than he ever was, in ways he never really did in the lower weight classes.

Put all of that together, along with his reluctance to give blood, and it can easily be considered "suspect"...

 

[AsUdUdE]

But the situations are completely different, you have a medical reason to do it and that's why you're monitoring the situation. There is absolutely no evidence that Manny uses HGH, there's no more evidence he does than Mayweather does. it.

Not really Russ... HGH does the same thing for your body, regardless of if you "need" it or not... my point is, Paquiao can know to the hour when the drugs enter and leave his body... So if he knows when the tests are coming he can manipulate his dosage accordingly.... I monotior because I have to, but in doing so if I ever had to pass a screen I could do it easily as long as I knew when the test was ahead of time...

And for anyone who honestly believes that HGH and steroid usage ALWAYS DRAMATICALLY changes your body, it doesn't neccessarily... it does however make your stronger, in every facet.... All I am saying is there are reasons Paquiao is soo against random testing, willing enough to walk away... and for what? to prove a point? If Mayweather really didn't want this fight, fake an injury in training, and no one would blink... There are much easier ways than wanting to strengthen drug testing before a mega fight...

 

[AsUdUdE]

And really the smoking gun in all of this, is PACMAN's unwillingness to bidge on the 30 day limit before the fight...

Paquaio can start his HGH dosage immediatly after doing his 1 "random test" sometime outside of 30 days before the fight...

If he does regular dosages for 3 weeks, he can flush his body right before the fight and there will be no evidence on fight night of anything, outside of the core stregth as result for the fight...

If you are willing to compromise on everything BUT that.. why? Don't give me the "he is afraid of needles arguement" or a more ridculous one "it will zap him of energy".. those red blood cells taken won't even be the ones in his body 24 hours later, let alone 14 days...

Mayweather has already backed off and compromised 14 days before the fight, and STILL Pac won't budge... so again the question is why?...

 

[Milgod]

I'm not saying Pacman is doped up but this has to fall on him. He made demands that Mayweather agreed to without much of a fight. The one request Mayweather puts in (and lets face it, not out of order either) Manny throws a hissy fit.

 

[Milgod]

People blame Mayweather because he has a history of ducking opponents when they are at their peak. All this steroid mess started because of his father, who he didn't talk to until recently. For some reason he picked up on this, though it is quite smart to. No matter what happens Manny comes out looking the fool. He doesn't want to do the testing, something that is rarely ever done in boxing. Manny says he doesn't want to do it, and he is instantly thought of as a steroid cheat. It is an absolute no win situation for Pacquiao.

Both sides are to blame for this, not just one. As I have said, this fight will happen. Whether the fight is March 13th or later this year I don't know, but it will happen. Too much cash.

Give over. People throw that one around all the time for no reason. Mayweather has fought, and beat, the best.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Then again. Why should Manny fight? He will make a few million for doing nothing for the slander from the mayweather sr idiot.

 

[azsportsfan01]

Give over. People throw that one around all the time for no reason. Mayweather has fought, and beat, the best.

Mayweather has obviously been dodging fights. When he moved up to super lightweight why would he avoid fighting Kostya Tszyu, Ricky Hatton, and Miguel Cotto? Then after beating Zab Judah (who had just been beaten anyways) would he avoid fighting Antonio Margarito? He waited until De La Hoya was in his mid-thirties to fight, one that many people I know still think he lost. He finally fought Hatton, but at welterweight, a weight Hatton was no good at. He then proceeded to dodge Cotto again by retiring. Once he came out of ‘retirement’ he decided to fight Juan Manuel Marquez, a lightweight, at 144. He then showed up 2 pounds heavier than he should have. Why dodge the natural welterweight Shane Mosley?

Mayweather has never cared about drug testing. Never has he called for more testing. But once his formally estranged father starts talking about how Pacquiao juices he takes up the call? Seems like a bunch of bull to me.

All Mayweather cares about is his undefeated record. He will keep that at all costs, as we have seen throughout his boxing history.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, FWIW, Mayweather's first pro fight he weighed in at 131 pounds. When he fought DelaHoya 11 years later, he weighed in at exactly 150 pounds.
Manny's first pro fight he weighed in at 106. 14 years later, he weighed in at 144 and pounded Cotto into submission.
Mayweather's is a 14% weight gain over his lowest weight. Manny's is a 36% weight gain over his lowest weight.
And most interesting to me is that, while Mayweather continues to win, he is NOT showing any signs of being physically stronger as he's put on weight. Whereas Manny has shown that he has gotten much stronger and is beating up guys now who are all naturally bigger and stronger than he ever was, in ways he never really did in the lower weight classes.

Put all of that together, along with his reluctance to give blood, and it can easily be considered "suspect"...

Who cares about first pro fight? The fact is they were fighting at the same weight when both were 16. Mayweather was essentially raised to be a boxer, Manny fell into it as a poor kid who had no other options. Mayweather was raised in a gym with a silver spoon in his mouth, Manny was dirt poor. You can't even compare their upbringings, Manny didn't have access to good training,weight training hell he didn't even have access to proper nutrition growing up the way Mayweather did.

There's absolutely nothing mysterious about Manny getting better and stronger as he gets older, he's now benefitting from the training he didn't have access to when he was younger, the training Mayweather always had access to.

FYI the 154 figure for the DeLaHoya fight came directly from a press release after the weigh in, even if his weight was only 150 it's still 8 pounds heavier than the heaviest Manny ever fought at(142 for DeLahoya) in the same time frame. They were the same weight at 16, 15 years later Mayweather was 8-12 pounds HEAVIER than Manny. how can you say Manny's increase is more?

For the record, Manny started his pro career at 16 years old, Mayweather, was 3 months short of 20 for his first pro fight so he was nearly 4 years older. And I think we can both agree it's pretty natural to gain weight between 16 and 20, even for a boxer?

 

[Russ Smith]

And really the smoking gun in all of this, is PACMAN's unwillingness to bidge on the 30 day limit before the fight...

Paquaio can start his HGH dosage immediatly after doing his 1 "random test" sometime outside of 30 days before the fight...

If he does regular dosages for 3 weeks, he can flush his body right before the fight and there will be no evidence on fight night of anything, outside of the core stregth as result for the fight...

If you are willing to compromise on everything BUT that.. why? Don't give me the "he is afraid of needles arguement" or a more ridculous one "it will zap him of energy".. those red blood cells taken won't even be the ones in his body 24 hours later, let alone 14 days...

Mayweather has already backed off and compromised 14 days before the fight, and STILL Pac won't budge... so again the question is why?...

And again Manny's trainer says they offered to do it 7 days before the fight and never got a reply from Mayweather. Freddie Roach has been directly quoted saying they made that offer. Clearly someone is lying, we have no way of knowing who.

To me this is somewhat like the Tour De France where American fans are convinced all the riders on the tour are doping yet Lance Armstrong won 7 in a row while being the only one not doping. It's like the Olympics where we believe all the US athletes are clean and all the people that beat US athletes must be doping.

Manny may very well be doping, I have no clue, but there's no more evidence he is than there is Mayweather is. In fact Mayweather has gained more weight than Manny has.

 

[Russ Smith]

Give over. People throw that one around all the time for no reason. Mayweather has fought, and beat, the best.

I think it started when ironically DeLaHoya(who now essentially represents Mayweather) said he retired because Mayweather wouldn't fight him and there was no fight left for him. He eventually unretired and lost to Mayweather and then of course lost to manny.

But that notion that he ducks fights actually came from the guy who now essentially manages him.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Who cares about first pro fight? The fact is they were fighting at the same weight when both were 16. Mayweather was essentially raised to be a boxer, Manny fell into it as a poor kid who had no other options. Mayweather was raised in a gym with a silver spoon in his mouth, Manny was dirt poor. You can't even compare their upbringings, Manny didn't have access to good training,weight training hell he didn't even have access to proper nutrition growing up the way Mayweather did.

There's absolutely nothing mysterious about Manny getting better and stronger as he gets older, he's now benefitting from the training he didn't have access to when he was younger, the training Mayweather always had access to.

FYI the 154 figure for the DeLaHoya fight came directly from a press release after the weigh in, even if his weight was only 150 it's still 8 pounds heavier than the heaviest Manny ever fought at(142 for DeLahoya) in the same time frame. They were the same weight at 16, 15 years later Mayweather was 8-12 pounds HEAVIER than Manny. how can you say Manny's increase is more?

Russ, listen... I'm a fan of Manny and have never been a supporter of Mayweather. I get everything you are saying - for the most part. One thing I have to say is that I don't believe it matters much what their weight was when they were 16. Kids still grow beyond the age of 16. It matters more to me what their weight was when they turned pro.
That crap aside, I simply find it curious and suspect that Manny seems to have an aversion to blood-testing... Combined with the fact that he has done something nobody in the history of the sport has ever done, and done it in a way that is truly eye-popping (knocking out naturally bigger dudes), when at lower weights he was not nearly as powerful.
IMO, Manny should have agreed to the blood testing. He chose not to. This is on him...

 

[azsportsfan01]

Combined with the fact that he has done something nobody in the history of the sport has ever done, and done it in a way that is truly eye-popping (knocking out naturally bigger dudes), when at lower weights he was not nearly as powerful.
IMO, Manny should have agreed to the blood testing. He chose not to. This is on him...

Manny has always been a powerful puncher no matter what weight he was at. The big change for him was getting Freddie Roach as his trainer. He finally got a chance to train with the best of the best. Roach developed his entire game.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Manny has always been a powerful puncher no matter what weight he was at. The big change for him was getting Freddie Roach as his trainer. He finally got a chance to train with the best of the best. Roach developed his entire game.

I dunno about "always has been a pwerful puncher"... He was always a busy fighter who threw tons of punches, and no doubt he had his share of stops... But I can't recall many of his previous fights where he was so physically dominating as he was over Hatton, DeLaHoya and Cotto... all of who are naturally much bigger guys.
He's gotten faster and stronger which could very well be due to nothing more than time spent with Roach. Or, it could be something else...

 

[azsportsfan01]

Freddie Roach just brought up a good point on SportsCenter. He believes that Mayweather is gonna dodge Shane Mosley or Andre Berta and will fight Paul Malignaggi.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Freddie Roach just brought up a good point on SportsCenter. He believes that Mayweather is gonna dodge Shane Mosley or Andre Berta and will fight Paul Malignaggi.

Both Manny and Floyd don't want any part of Shane... Floyd will destroy Pauli and will make pennies versus what he could've made fighting Manny or Shane. What a joke...

 

[Milgod]

Freddie Roach just brought up a good point on SportsCenter. He believes that Mayweather is gonna dodge Shane Mosley or Andre Berta and will fight Paul Malignaggi.

Hold on a minute. Surely you have to say Manny dodges fights as well then? He has said he would fight Malignaggi as well.

 

[azsportsfan01]

Pacquiao is fighting Clottey. Much better than Malinaggi. Plus Manny has shown in the past to go fight good fighters. Mayweather shown otherwise.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Updated: January 7, 2010, 10:34 PM ET
Irate Mayweather blaming Pacquiao

By Dan Rafael
ESPN.com
Archive
A day after their fight was declared dead, Floyd Mayweather Jr. said Thursday night that he still wants to fight Manny Pacquiao.
Their tentative March 13 megafight -- which many believe will be the most lucrative fight in boxing history if it happens -- was called off Wednesday night by Top Rank's Bob Arum, Pacquiao's promoter, after mediation failed to resolve their issues over drug testing protocol.
Arum blamed Mayweather for the fight falling apart, but Mayweather came out swinging on Thursday.

“

You must be registered for see images attach

In my opinion it is Manny Pacquiao and his team who are denying the people a chance to see the biggest fight ever. I know the people will see through their smoke screens and lies. I am ready to fight and sign the contract. Manny needs to stop making his excuses, step up and fight.
” -- Floyd Mayweather​

"Throughout this whole process I have remained patient but at this point I am thoroughly disgusted that Pacquiao and his representatives are trying to blame me for the fight not happening when clearly the blame is on them," Mayweather said in a statement.
"First and foremost, not only do I want to fight Manny Pacquiao, I want to whip his punk ass."

The final issue in the negotiation was drug testing.
They agreed to unlimited random urine testing, but Mayweather also insisted on random blood testing, even though the Nevada State Athletic Commission, which would oversee the bout at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, requires only urine testing.

Pacquiao (50-3-2, 38 KOs) didn't want blood testing but later relented and agreed to three blood tests: one during the week of the kickoff news conference, which would have taken place next week, one random test to be conducted no later than 30 days before the fight and a final test in his dressing room after the fight. Mayweather (40-0, 25 KOs) would be subject to the same testing procedures.

When they could not come to an agreement, Top Rank and Golden Boy Promotions, which represents Mayweather, turned to a mediator, retired judge Daniel Weinstein, who had successfully mediated a series of disputes between Top Rank and Golden Boy in 2007.

But after nine hours in mediation on Tuesday in Santa Monica, Calif., and further attempts to come to a resolution on Wednesday failed, the fight was pronounced dead by the Pacquiao camp.
The mediation was largely about coming up with a suitable time frame in which to cut off the testing before the fight. Pacquiao moved off his hard-line stance of no testing inside 30 days from the fight by agreeing to 24 days during mediation.

"We agreed to move the drug testing to 24 days under the supervision of the Nevada commission and Mayweather still wouldn't budge," Michael Koncz, Pacquiao's adviser, told ESPN.com from the Philippines on Wednesday night after the fight was declared dead.
The Pacquiao camp blamed Mayweather for his unwillingness to move off his desire for random testing until the fight.
Mayweather disputed that on Thursday.

"Before the mediation, my team proposed a 14-day, no blood testing window leading up to the fight. But it was rejected," Mayweather said. "I am still proposing the 14-day window but he is still unwilling to agree to it, even though this is obviously a fair compromise on my part as I wanted the testing to be up until the fight and he wanted a 30 day cutoff. The truth is he just doesn't want to take the tests.

"In my opinion it is Manny Pacquiao and his team who are denying the people a chance to see the biggest fight ever. I know the people will see through their smoke screens and lies. I am ready to fight and sign the contract. Manny needs to stop making his excuses, step up and fight."

The drug testing became a major issue when Floyd Mayweather Sr., the father of the fighter, made several public remarks accusing Pacquiao of using performance-enhancing drugs without a shred of proof. Mayweather Jr. later made similar remarks about him using PEDs, even though Pacquiao denies it and has never failed a drug test.
The accusations led Pacquiao to file a defamation lawsuit last week in Nevada U.S. District Court against Mayweather Jr., Mayweather Sr., Roger Mayweather, Mayweather Promotions and Golden Boy officials Richard Schaefer and Oscar De La Hoya.

If the welterweight title bout is to be saved, and go forward on March 13, the camps likely have until Friday or Saturday to work things out and kick off the promotion as planned early next week in New York.

 

[Milgod]

Pacquiao is fighting Clottey. Much better than Malinaggi. Plus Manny has shown in the past to go fight good fighters. Mayweather shown otherwise.

Well I would disagree with you there. They are both slightly better than average IMO.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, listen... I'm a fan of Manny and have never been a supporter of Mayweather. I get everything you are saying - for the most part. One thing I have to say is that I don't believe it matters much what their weight was when they were 16. Kids still grow beyond the age of 16. It matters more to me what their weight was when they turned pro.That crap aside, I simply find it curious and suspect that Manny seems to have an aversion to blood-testing... Combined with the fact that he has done something nobody in the history of the sport has ever done, and done it in a way that is truly eye-popping (knocking out naturally bigger dudes), when at lower weights he was not nearly as powerful.
IMO, Manny should have agreed to the blood testing. He chose not to. This is on him...

You're going to have to humor me on this bolded part, why? They're one year apart in age, when both were 16 they were fighting at the same weight.

So picking the arbitrary starting point of first professional fight makes no sense unless you're trying to slant the discussion to Mayweather. the relevant comparison would be how heavy was Manny when he was 20 and the answer is he was fighting at IIRC 112 pounds. mayweathers first pro fight was at 130 pound class(super featherweight) but he was weighed in at either 124 or 125( I googled and got 2 different weights). So we're talking 12 pounds difference at the same age. Given how they grew up is it really odd that Mayweather would gain 12 pounds more between 16 and 20? he's taller and he was not living in poverty at the time as Manny was.

When you factor in the level of training and nutrition Manny had access to as a kid compared to as an adult it makes perfect sense that he got bigger and stronger, he was an impoverished kid. The reason Mayweather had so many KO's at the beginning of his career wasn't because that was his natural weight, it was because he was fighting guys who were nowhere near as good as he was. He'd been trained to be a champion, robbed of a Gold Medal in the Olympics, sparred with champions as a teenager etc. as he advanced up the ranks the gap between him and the opponents narrowed and so he got less KO's.

Manny on the other hand his first 15 fights were all against Filipinos in the Philippines most of whom had the same background he did, but were older than him. Between 1-95 and 6-96 he fought 15 professional fights without ever leaving his home country. He also lost twice somewhat early in his career both times by KO, and both times he had failed to make weight. If you read the bio on Manny it says for both fights they had to crash diet and try to sweat off to get down to the weight, he was one pound over both fights, and got KO'd both times in the 3rd round because he was weak from trying to lose the weight.

In his first loss the punishment for not making weight was he had to wear heavier gloves than his opponent which slowed him down. The second loss he was actually stripped of the title before the fight for failing to make weight and observers said he was visibly weak and was nothing like the Manny we see now. After the 2nd loss he moved UP in weight so he'd no longer have trouble making weight going from 112 to 122. His last fight at that weight was the first Marquez fight which was ruled a draw but the judge who had the fight even later admitted that he had erroneously ruled the first round 10-7 Manny even though by rule it should have been 10-6 since Manny knocked Marquez down 3 times in the round. So Manny should have won the fight and beat Marquez by split decision 4 years later at a higher weight. that fight was controversial and Marquez demanded a rematch but Manny refused because... he wanted to move up in weight as he was having trouble again making weight as a super featherweight.

the only rapid weight gain we've seen with manny is in recent years and that's because he had to move up to get big fights, there was nobody left in his weight class. He had 2 choices fight at a distinct disadvantage weight wise, or gain weight himself. If gaining weight later in a career to fight big fights is suspicious I assume you also think Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard were doping? None of them ever took a blood test for HGH either and all gained weight late in their boxing careers.

The last point again, Freddie Roach was on ESPN today saying emphatically we DID agree, we offered to a blood test 7 days before the fight and they did not respond to the offer. He said that while Mayweather is popping off about Manny refusing 14 days he's lying because they actually could have had 7 days had they simply accepted the offer Roach personally made.

You're choosing to believe Mayweather's statements and not Manny's or Roach's, that's certainly your right but you can't say Manny refused to blood test because you don't know which of them is telling the truth.

These guys have fought a lot of the same people, DeLaHoya, Hatton, Marquez etc and none of them have stepped forward and said yes I too thought Manny was doping. Shane Mosley was asked a couple of years ago about a fight with Mayweather and said we spoke about it and he said he didn't want to fight me now, he wanted a couple of tuneup fights first and said to get back to him in a couple of years, Mosley said it was clear he didn't want to fight me. At the time Mosley was already 35, he's 38 now and they've never fought. I assume Mayweather wants to weight until Shane is 40?

But maybe it's because we now know that Shane WAS doping, both involved with Balco and admittedly taking EPO before he fought DeLaHoya. Except to my knowledge Mayweather has never once said that's why he didn't fight Mosley, seems given how often he was accused of ducking Shane it would have made sense to bring that up given how concerned Mayweather apparently is with doping?

Until we get some sort of evidence that Roach is lying about the 7 day offer I see no reason to believe one over the other.

 

[Russ Smith]

Freddie Roach just brought up a good point on SportsCenter. He believes that Mayweather is gonna dodge Shane Mosley or Andre Berta and will fight Paul Malignaggi.

Personally I would dodge Shane too, he's the one guy in all this that we actually know DID dope.

 

[azsportsfan01]

One thing to watch is how the drug testing is implemented in both fighters next fight. I would imagine Pacquiao/Clottey is going to be the standard urine tests, but Mayweather may be in a bind. He has to demand the same type of testing he wants out of Pacquiao out of who ever he chooses to fight next. If he doesn't then he will look like the one who didn't let this fight happen instead of one piece.

 

[Russ Smith]

One thing to watch is how the drug testing is implemented in both fighters next fight. I would imagine Pacquiao/Clottey is going to be the standard urine tests, but Mayweather may be in a bind. He has to demand the same type of testing he wants out of Pacquiao out of who ever he chooses to fight next. If he doesn't then he will look like the one who didn't let this fight happen instead of one piece.

Personally I expect Mayweather to retire again. He'll just say if Manny won't fight there's no fight worth it and retire.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You're going to have to humor me on this bolded part, why? They're one year apart in age, when both were 16 they were fighting at the same weight.

Russ... c'mon man. You never experienced or saw a case where two kids were the same weight at age 16, yet 4-5 years later, one of the kids sprouted, grew, filled out and developed more quikcly than the other?? Clearly, this is what happened with Floyd and Manny. Heck, Floyd does have 2 inches on Manny... He's simply a naturally bigger man. Regardless of what they weighed at the age of 16.

When you factor in the level of training and nutrition Manny had access to as a kid compared to as an adult it makes perfect sense that he got bigger and stronger, he was an impoverished kid. The reason Mayweather had so many KO's at the beginning of his career wasn't because that was his natural weight, it was because he was fighting guys who were nowhere near as good as he was. He'd been trained to be a champion, robbed of a Gold Medal in the Olympics, sparred with champions as a teenager etc. as he advanced up the ranks the gap between him and the opponents narrowed and so he got less KO's.

From 1995 thru 2008, Manny fought ALL of his fights at weights of 130 pounds or less. It wasnn't until June of 2008 when he fought Diaz did Manny fight above 130 pounds! Out of his 55 fights, only 4 have been fought above 130 pounds!
Meanwhile, 26 of Mayweather's 40 fights he has weighed in above 130 pounds! C'mon man... get real Russ...

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ... c'mon man. You never experienced or saw a case where two kids were the same weight at age 16, yet 4-5 years later, one of the kids sprouted, grew, filled out and developed more quikcly than the other?? Clearly, this is what happened with Floyd and Manny. Heck, Floyd does have 2 inches on Manny... He's simply a naturally bigger man. Regardless of what they weighed at the age of 16.




From 1995 thru 2008, Manny fought ALL of his fights at weights of 130 pounds or less. It wasnn't until June of 2008 when he fought Diaz did Manny fight above 130 pounds! Out of his 55 fights, only 4 have been fought above 130 pounds!
Meanwhile, 26 of Mayweather's 40 fights he has weighed in above 130 pounds! C'mon man... get real Russ...

you're either completely missing my point or ducking it. Comparing them by the weight of their first pro fight makes absolutely no sense. The only "Fair" comparison is to compare them both at the same age, and at 16 they were fighting at the same weight. By 20 Mayweather was at least 10 pounds bigger. Yes he's taller but he's also in a completely different world it makes perfect sense that he was bigger he had a much better life at that point, much better training, much better nutrition etc.

Manny gained weight later on because there were no fights left for him at 130 pounds. I've still found nothing that says he fought above 142 pounds, and he was having trouble making 130 the last several fights so I don't see a big deal gaining 10-12 pounds later in his career. His last fight in the 130 class he fought marquez at 129, 3 months later he fought Diaz at 134.5. If you read the pre fight weighin comments for the Diaz fight it very clearly says unlike his last 3 fights, Manny had no problem making the higher weight. In the last 3 fights they were concerned Manny was weakened by struggling to make the weight. He stayed below 130 because that's where the fights were, once he'd beaten everyone, including the Marquez rematch he moved up to the next weight class that suited him better.



Mayweather went from fighting at 140 to fighting at 150 in about 18 months.
Manny has by you fought above 130 4 times in 18 months and the most I can find is 142 pounds. Why is ok for Mayweather to jump 10 pounds in 18 months but not for Manny to jump 12? You're really saying that last 2 pounds is the difference between doping and not doping? Especially when you consider he really went from 135 to 142 which is only 7 pounds after the Diaz fight.

The highest weight Manny has fought is 142, Mayweather 150, I don't see how anybody can look at that given their comparable ages and say obviously Manny doped and Mayweather didn't.

Of course I've seen 2 16 year olds grow at different rates, that's precisely my point you're assuming Manny cheated because he gained weight later in his career, so did Mayweather, so did Ray Leonard, marvin hagler, Duran, Hearns and on and on. You're taking the growth rate of Mayweather and saying if Manny's doesn't fit it, then he must be doping.

Again if he's doping how come nobody else he fought has made that allegation? And if Mayweather is such an expert on who's doping how come he never called out Mosley for doping when he ACTUALLY WAS doping?

It's just as likely that Mayweather just doesn't want to fight as it is Manny is avoiding tests, especially given what you are refusing to comment on, that Roach says they offered to take a blood test 7 days before the fight.