Paging John Skelton fans...

[LarryStalling]

One thing I must say about John Skelton. Be he bad or be he good, I enjoy watching him play football because I have learned that there is hope. Maybe not always successful but at least there is a pulse in the team and therefore they have been trying.

Why did the defense start playing so well late in the game Saturday? Could it be that they believe once they saw the light come on with JS. I have seen some horrendous qb play over the last 10 years including some from Warner. Doesn't anyone remember how bad Kurt was or just simply remember the playoffs when he played like he was out of his mind. This team was simply a bad first half from maybe having a record as good as the team that Warner led to the Super Bowl. AND that is after the team started out with a 1-6 record. I am not saying that Skelton is as good as Warner, but I also remember that Warner had some stinker games like the NE game that year. Other than Warner how many qb have we had in AZ that have won as many games as Skelton in less than half a season. Then ask yourself did Warner and he had 10 years of experience in the NFL and experience bagging groceries to boot.

 

[Russ Smith]

Never want to see either Kolb or Skelton play ever again

I'm fine with Skelton as a developmental QB all I'm saying is we lost on Sat because of his play. Now nobody loses a game single handedly of course but the difference in the game was his poor start allowed Cincy to get a big lead and then despite his hot finish, we came up short.

I'm not saying cut Skelton or anything like that just that in THAT game, we lost in large part because he couldn't make the plays that were there to be made early in the game.

The first 2 runs of the game went for 6 and 4 yards(different drives) after that it was 1, 1, 2, 3 so 6 runs for 17 yards in the first half. you can argue that we went to the pass too early but it was clearly a function of what the Cards play callers saw the Bengals defense doing to defend the run.

We had problems protecting Skelton early but really the first 2 picks were on Skelton not on pressure. The 3rd one there was pressure but then he got outside but rather than run or throw it away, he threw it right to a defender so that's on him too.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can't speak for the rest of the board, but I would've been fine with it because (1) I think it'd work, and (2) because that appeals to my football aesthetics. The 1997 Arizona Cardinals might have lead me to pay extra attention to the NFL, but the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of the late 90s and early 00s were what caused me to fall in love with the game. Send Mike Alstott and Warrick Dunn into the line of scrimmage over and over, and then let your defense make some plays. I still think we can play that brand of football with this team.

The Cards started the game calling 1 run and three consecutive passes: 6 yard gain, 12 yard reception, sack, INT. Would the Cards have been better off feeding the ball to Beanie and then punting the ball? Even with Dave Zastudil punting like he was nursing a hangover, the Bengals wouldn't have gotten the ball at our 23.

Second drive: 2 runs, 1 pass. 6 yard game, one yard gain, sack, punt. What is the strategic advantage in calling passes here?

If you have a good QB, I understand that you have a strategic advantage. But does anyone here think that we have a good QB?!?! ANYONE?!

Do you think that the Jacksonville Jaguars don't see a lot of 8-man fronts? Counting sacks, they have 25 more passing attempts on the season than rushing attempts.

Do you think that the Minnesota Vikings don't see a lot of 8-man fronts? Counting sacks, they have 90 more passing attempts than rushing attempts on the season.

The Cards have 285 more passing attempts (602 including sacks and scambles) than rushing attempts (317) on the year!! And they don't have Adrian Peterson and Maurice Jones-Drew keeping defensive coordinators up at night? Do you really think we see more 8 man fronts than those guys?

And it's not like we're getting blown out and have to pass over and over to stay in games. 12 of our 15 games have been decided by a touchdown or less!

There is a template for this. Matt Ryan's rookie year the Atlanta Falcons rushed 560 times and passed 468 times, including sacks. Whis knows this: the 2005 Pittsburgh Steelers were breaking in a quarterback from a small school and rushed the ball 549 times against just 426 passing attempts (including sacks).

The Cards don't have to be THAT extreme, but the last three games the Cards have called:

SF: 11 rushes, 37 passes (counting 6 Skelton scrambles and 2 sacks)
CLE: 20 rushes, 52 passes (counting 2 Skelton scrambles and 4 sacks)
@CIN: 14 rushes, 53 passes(!!!) (counting 4 Skelton scrambles and 5 sacks)
Total: 45 rushes, 192 passes

If you think that the smart football move with John Skelton under center is to pass the ball 81-plus percent of the time, or that we're seeing eight in the box four out of five plays, then there's no reason to keep talking. One of us just doesn't get football.

Otherwise, you can take the TJ approach and imply that Whis is just making sure that we all understand that John Skelton can't implement an NFL offense.

What I'm saying is teh NFL is a business and coaches get paid to win games. They have to try and win the game if Whiz goes out there and babies Skelton for 3 quarters then you have to ask why is he in the game and not Bartell?

If we don't have a QB on the roster who's capable of hitting open receivers and not throwing to the defense then that's on the staff, but Skelton has showed repeatedly he IS capable of doing that, just not in the first half for some reason and I refuse to think that reason is all play calling because we ran what 2-3 times in the whole 4th quarter(with bad results) when Skelton lit it up?

For some reason he can't play well early in the games. I am suspecting this is because the defense confused him and it took him 3 quarters to figure it out but I don't really know that for a fact.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Interesting stats, it seems that JS is at his best when he is blitzed. When a defense stay in their base defense is when he struggles. That in and of itself is opposite of what most young QB's do. It's been a crazy year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13458/john-skelton


Less Is More

NEXT LEVEL: John Skelton completed only 16 of 30 (53.3 percent) passes, and threw all 3 interceptions when the Bengals sent four or fewer pass rushers. The Bengals constantly pressured Skelton, as he was under duress or sacked on 13 of 35 (37.1 percent) dropbacks when the against a standard rush.
about 2 days ago | ESPN Stats and Information

Skelton beats pressure late

NEXT LEVEL: John Skelton completed both of his touchdowns against extra pass rushers in the fourth quarter, and could have hit Early Doucet for a touchdown pass against 6 pass rushers had Doucet not fallen late in the game. Overall, the Bengals amped up their pressure late, sending at least five pass rushers 36 percent of Skelton's fourth quarter dropbacks

 

[WisconsinCard]

Looks like Larry came Calling

http://arizonasports.com/40/1480385/Larry-Fitzgerald-is-a-John-Skelton-fan

Well this thread was titled paging John Skelton fans.

 

[Russ Smith]

Interesting stats, it seems that JS is at his best when he is blitzed. When a defense stay in their base defense is when he struggles. That in and of itself is opposite of what most young QB's do. It's been a crazy year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13458/john-skelton


Less Is More

NEXT LEVEL: John Skelton completed only 16 of 30 (53.3 percent) passes, and threw all 3 interceptions when the Bengals sent four or fewer pass rushers. The Bengals constantly pressured Skelton, as he was under duress or sacked on 13 of 35 (37.1 percent) dropbacks when the against a standard rush.
about 2 days ago | ESPN Stats and Information

Skelton beats pressure late

NEXT LEVEL: John Skelton completed both of his touchdowns against extra pass rushers in the fourth quarter, and could have hit Early Doucet for a touchdown pass against 6 pass rushers had Doucet not fallen late in the game. Overall, the Bengals amped up their pressure late, sending at least five pass rushers 36 percent of Skelton's fourth quarter dropbacks

Problem is that's the polar opposite of up until now where he's been horrible against blitzes.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Problem is that's the polar opposite of up until now where he's been horrible against blitzes.

I disagree I think he has been much better when the rush is coming at him. Didn't the whiners d cordinator state just that? Of course I mean the blitz because with our tackles the rush is always coming.

 

[Duckjake]

What I'm saying is teh NFL is a business and coaches get paid to win games. They have to try and win the game if Whiz goes out there and babies Skelton for 3 quarters then you have to ask why is he in the game and not Bartell?

If we don't have a QB on the roster who's capable of hitting open receivers and not throwing to the defense then that's on the staff, but Skelton has showed repeatedly he IS capable of doing that, just not in the first half for some reason and I refuse to think that reason is all play calling because we ran what 2-3 times in the whole 4th quarter(with bad results) when Skelton lit it up?

For some reason he can't play well early in the games. I am suspecting this is because the defense confused him and it took him 3 quarters to figure it out but I don't really know that for a fact.

Neither has Kolb really. I'm thinking that CKW and his staff are solid on game day but lacking in preparation. This is not something unique to them. I've seen coaches on either side of the equation. Mack Brown of Texas was a great prep coach but awful on game day until he brought in better coordinators.

That could be why we see the Cards start slow and finish strong as the Cards coaching staff makes the in game adjustments they are good at performing.

 

[kerouac9]

Neither has Kolb really. I'm thinking that CKW and his staff are solid on game day but lacking in preparation. This is not something unique to them. I've seen coaches on either side of the equation. Mack Brown of Texas was a great prep coach but awful on game day until he brought in better coordinators.

That could be why we see the Cards start slow and finish strong as the Cards coaching staff makes the in game adjustments they are good at performing.

Yup. The game plan is fine on paper but the players can't execute it. That's a coaching problem, because as the game goes on the coaches figure out what the players are seeing and can tailor the game plan to the talent on the field.

Hopefully with a better QB coach next year we won't see the same early game disconnects.

 

[Russ Smith]

I disagree I think he has been much better when the rush is coming at him. Didn't the whiners d cordinator state just that? Of course I mean the blitz because with our tackles the rush is always coming.

Yes but there was a thread a couple of weeks ago that showed Skelton's stats when the opponent rushed 5 and they were MUCH worse.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yup. The game plan is fine on paper but the players can't execute it. That's a coaching problem, because as the game goes on the coaches figure out what the players are seeing and can tailor the game plan to the talent on the field.

Hopefully with a better QB coach next year we won't see the same early game disconnects.

I can see some of that but throws over guys heads or to the DB standing there are NOT the fault of the game plan.

 

[kerouac9]

I can see some of that but throws over guys heads or to the DB standing there are NOT the fault of the game plan.

Once it's not, but how many games has Skelton started at this point? Who is still surprised by John Skelton's lack of pinpoint accuracy? That early in the game he has a hard time deciding which jerseys are his team's?

 

[LarryStalling]

But Fitz does not know anything! He is just a pass catcher. sarcasm off!

 

[Russ Smith]

Once it's not, but how many games has Skelton started at this point? Who is still surprised by John Skelton's lack of pinpoint accuracy? That early in the game he has a hard time deciding which jerseys are his team's?

That all sounds well and good but what possible logical reason is there for it?

I mean I remember Jay Schroeder was notorious for being jacked up and throwing the ball high in the first half and then calming down, happened with Washington and with us.

But Skelton is consistently high, even when he's on a hot streak the passes are generall high.

But the other stuff is just baffling. The first throw of the game Sunday was a ball he whizzed by a defender to Fitz, the announcer immediately said wow he got away with one there that was really fit into a tight window he needs to be careful. 2 plays later he threw the first pick.

I don't know how you as a coach account for that, you can't just not throw early if he needs to get that stuff out of his system that would just mean the dumb plays happen later in the game when you start throwing.

My guess is Skelton just can't read defenses so it takes him well into the game until the Cards have lots of those from the sky pictures to show him where everyone is and who's open and who's not and once that's explained to him he does better.

The problem is that's a pretty huge disadvantage to have in a starting QB if that's the case.

 

[Duckjake]

That all sounds well and good but what possible logical reason is there for it?

I mean I remember Jay Schroeder was notorious for being jacked up and throwing the ball high in the first half and then calming down, happened with Washington and with us.

But Skelton is consistently high, even when he's on a hot streak the passes are generall high.

But the other stuff is just baffling. The first throw of the game Sunday was a ball he whizzed by a defender to Fitz, the announcer immediately said wow he got away with one there that was really fit into a tight window he needs to be careful. 2 plays later he threw the first pick.

I don't know how you as a coach account for that, you can't just not throw early if he needs to get that stuff out of his system that would just mean the dumb plays happen later in the game when you start throwing.

My guess is Skelton just can't read defenses so it takes him well into the game until the Cards have lots of those from the sky pictures to show him where everyone is and who's open and who's not and once that's explained to him he does better.

The problem is that's a pretty huge disadvantage to have in a starting QB if that's the case.

I agree that game prep doesn't impact high throws from the QB. Jim Hart was consistently high. With his throws Ddawg, with his throws! Used to drive me crazy. And we all know Coryell was an offensive genius.

As to preparation affecting the QB play it could be that the Cards preparation is faulty and when they get into the game the defensive looks aren't what they saw in film study or ran against the scout team in practice that week. That would explain the slow starts by both QBs recently. The defense wasn't supposed to have a S or LB in the spot the QBs are throwing to for instance.

Once the coaching staff has time to evaluate what the opponent is doing they make adjustments which they are very good at doing and the Cards offense starts to improve.

Just look at the Dallas game where Kolb completed more passes in the 1st&2nd quarter than he did in the 3rd and 4th. But the completions in the second half were going for 15 yards instead of 6 yards.

 

[Buckybird]

That all sounds well and good but what possible logical reason is there for it?

I mean I remember Jay Schroeder was notorious for being jacked up and throwing the ball high in the first half and then calming down, happened with Washington and with us.

But Skelton is consistently high, even when he's on a hot streak the passes are generall high.

But the other stuff is just baffling. The first throw of the game Sunday was a ball he whizzed by a defender to Fitz, the announcer immediately said wow he got away with one there that was really fit into a tight window he needs to be careful. 2 plays later he threw the first pick.

I don't know how you as a coach account for that, you can't just not throw early if he needs to get that stuff out of his system that would just mean the dumb plays happen later in the game when you start throwing.

My guess is Skelton just can't read defenses so it takes him well into the game until the Cards have lots of those from the sky pictures to show him where everyone is and who's open and who's not and once that's explained to him he does better.
The problem is that's a pretty huge disadvantage to have in a starting QB if that's the case.

I'm thinking so much of that is the Cards offense. I remember Warner talking about this a few years ago, that he knew where he was going when he got to the LOS. Granted if Warner saw differant you might see him progress to 2 or 3. I know other QB's sometime do this but watch Brees, Rodgers, Brady, etc.

Either it's our offense, Kolb & Skelton have issues reading coverege or they just don't have time from the Oline or possibly a combination. I'm betting it's our system because we as fans see guys breaking open all the time & the balls already out to someone else.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm thinking so much of that is the Cards offense. I remember Warner talking about this a few years ago, that he knew where he was going when he got to the LOS. Granted if Warner saw differant you might see him progress to 2 or 3. I know other QB's sometime do this but watch Brees, Rodgers, Brady, etc.

Either it's our offense, Kolb & Skelton have issues reading coverege or they just don't have time from the Oline or possibly a combination. I'm betting it's our system because we as fans see guys breaking open all the time & the balls already out to someone else.

I can buy that with Kolb totally new system, totally new players, no OTA's little camp etc.

With Skelton it's year 2 in the system, year 2 with the players. Even though he didn't get lots of reps and had the same OTA and camp situation, he should be further along in the offense. He has even talked about him helping Kolb earlier in the season pick things up.

I think he knows the offense, I just think he makes up his mind before the snap where he's going with the ball. Last year if the first read wasn't open, he dumped it off. This year if the first read isn't open he will often still force it to the first read.

We've all heard the saying throwing into a tight window with respect to the NFL the problem with Skelton is he's routinely throwing into CLOSED windows because he either doesn't see the defense, or doesn't think they'll make a play on the ball.

Warner was remarkable at knowing pre snap what was going to happen and who would be open. He made up his mind pre snap too but he was usually right, Skelton usually is just going for the first option which I think is precisely what the SF DC meant by saying we don't have to scheme for him.

 

[Evil Ash]

That all sounds well and good but what possible logical reason is there for it?

I mean I remember Jay Schroeder was notorious for being jacked up and throwing the ball high in the first half and then calming down, happened with Washington and with us.

But Skelton is consistently high, even when he's on a hot streak the passes are generall high.

The main reason is mechanics. Its a known issue with his footwork (he throws off his back foot alot, when you do that the pass goes high the overwhelming majority of the time). Mechanics are a big deal believe it or not. Can be the difference between a completed pass and a complete mess. The question is can he correct it? That we won't really know until he gets a full offseason as one of the top 2 QBs to get a chance to know. Of course having an Oline that could manage to pass block so that he could step into his throws would also be greatly helpful.

To give another example not football related - You see catchers pointing to their shoulder after a wild pitch because the pitchers are opening up their shoulders too soon. If the pitcher had used good mechanics he would have thrown it in or near the strike zone

In college especially at lower level programs things like this often go unnoticed because the margin for error is much greater so WRs can still adjust to high lob passes. In the NFL some of those passes can't be lobs and are in fact forced into areas.

There are other factors as well but thats one of the main reasons for his inaccuracy.