Paris Lenon

[joeshmo]

(Note - An interesting comment by either Millen or Mora on the teevee: Smart FO's love to uncover & sign FA's who were "good players on bad teams").

Just sayin'.

Thats why former Cardinals players were such hot commodities back in the day.

 

[kerouac9]

Kent Somers gives us a little more information--and a little more muted review--on Paris Lenon: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...05/20100805arizona-cardinals-linebackers.html

In Lenon, 32, the Cardinals have someone who has played in various systems and seen about everything offenses can offer. Looking at video of him playing the past couple of years, Cardinals coaches were impressed by his efficiency.

"He's not Patrick Willis (of the 49ers)," Raich said. "He's not the fastest guy. He's not the biggest guy. But you could tell he understood the game. When he got the chance to make plays, he stepped up and made plays."

While researching Lenon, Raich wondered why Lenon had moved from Green Bay to Detroit and then to the Rams. "Now that I see him out there," Raich said, pointing to the practice field, "I'm glad we have him. He just understands the game. He could coach right now if he wanted to."

I think the best-case scenario on Paris Lenon is a Robert Griffith-like tenure here.

 

[joeshmo]

Kent Somers gives us a little more information--and a little more muted review--on Paris Lenon: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...05/20100805arizona-cardinals-linebackers.html



I think the best-case scenario on Paris Lenon is a Robert Griffith-like tenure here.

Riach's definition of the guy makes him sound like an upgraded version of Monte Beisel. Efficient but wont over whelm. I think that is about right.

If all we get out of the guy is someone who doesn't make mistakes and is always where he is supposed to be, that isn't all that bad. Sure you want him to be a playmaker but you cant have 11 playmakers on D.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Riach's definition of the guy makes him sound like an upgraded version of Monte Beisel. Efficient but wont over whelm. I think that is about right.

If all we get out of the guy is someone who doesn't make mistakes and is always where he is supposed to be, that isn't all that bad. Sure you want him to be a playmaker but you cant have 11 playmakers on D.

Yep that's how I see it playing out, and I'm much more worried about the SILB situation where we have NO ONE who can play there, or at least no one who has any real proven experience there. IMO Lenon >> Beisel, and if Beisel is going to be the starter longterm we may be in trouble.

 

[kerouac9]

Yep that's how I see it playing out, and I'm much more worried about the SILB situation where we have NO ONE who can play there, or at least no one who has any real proven experience there. IMO Lenon >> Beisel, and if Beisel is going to be the starter longterm we may be in trouble.

The issue is that if Lenon is playing SILB, then we're either playing Beisel at WILB or starting Washington. I understand that the coaches LOVED Washington as a prospect, but I'm not sure he's ready to play in the NFL right away--I'm not even sure what weight he reported to camp at, and what he'll be to begin the season.

I think that Lenon is going to be the long-term starter at SILB--which is fine. But can he be the short-term starter at that position if it means that the playmaking position--WILB is manned by either a rookie in Washington or Monty Beisel?

 

[Shane]

The issue is that if Lenon is playing SILB, then we're either playing Beisel at WILB or starting Washington. I understand that the coaches LOVED Washington as a prospect, but I'm not sure he's ready to play in the NFL right away--I'm not even sure what weight he reported to camp at, and what he'll be to begin the season.

I think that Lenon is going to be the long-term starter at SILB--which is fine. But can he be the short-term starter at that position if it means that the playmaking position--WILB is manned by either a rookie in Washington or Monty Beisel?

Washington is listed as 6'2" 230 and when I saw him speaking with A-Dub with their pads off It seemd about right. A-dub is 6'3" 230. I dont think that weight is terrible for a WILB at all. Plus if there is one position that young players seem to have a chance to come in and thrive it is LBer.

 

[joeshmo]

I dont think that weight is terrible for a WILB at all.

That would easily make him the skinniest WILB in the NFL, it really is uncharted territory. Not saying it cant work though.

The next is Timmons at 235, but he is only 6-1 and had two years of NFL strength and conditioning before they let him start.

 

[kerouac9]

Washington is listed as 6'2" 230 and when I saw him speaking with A-Dub with their pads off It seemd about right. A-dub is 6'3" 230. I dont think that weight is terrible for a WILB at all.

Players lose weight in camp. Just for comparison's sake, here are the heights and weights of some of the other WILBs around the NFL:

Patrick Willis (SF) - 6'1", 240
Keith Brooking (DAL) - 6'2", 241
Karlos Dansby (MIA) - 6'4", 250
Nick Barnett (I'm guessing he plays WILB because A.J. Hawk has been such a huge disappointment for the Packers) (GB) - 6'2", 236
Tavares Gooden (BAL) - 6'1", 238
David Harris (NYJ) - 6'2", 245
Lawrence Timmons (PIT) - 6'1", 234

Players generally lose weight in camp. One of the concerns that I had about Washington was that he has SUCH a lean frame, and I wasn't sure whether he could put on weight. He played at 225 or less at TCU. On his draft conference, he expected to come in at 235 to minicamp, which apparently didn't happen.

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To me, he doesn't even look as bulky as Lawrence Timmons, who has had his own struggles with consistency at Pittsburgh, but whom I view as a projection of Daryl Washington:

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As tall as he is, I think that you want him playing at at least 240, and you hope that his second season he's between 240 and 245. If you think that Karlos Dansby ran around blockers...

In other long and lean linebacker news, Bengal fans love former Cardinal draft pick Brandon Johnson and have been openly wondering whether he's better than Keith Rivers.

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Johnson would play the weak side for the Bengals and plays at 6'5", 240.

 

[joeshmo]

Brandon Johnson is a classic example of a guy who took a long time to get the mental aspects of the game in his thick skull. 99% of the NFL just doesn't have the patience to wait for that to happen. He actually still might not be a house hold name with the Bengals if they didn't end up with that horrible season were at one point their top 5 LB's on their depth chart were injured for the year.

I would be happy if he played like Timmons. 13 games - 78 tackles, 7 sacks, 4 PD's, 4 FF. That is very close to Dansby's best season at WILB. But like I said Timmons wasnt let loose until he gained 2 years of NFL Strength and Conditioning. Plus he is 2 inches shorter, 5 pounds heavier, making him like 10 pounds thicker then Washington in my own weird sort of math. I would be happy if Washington could get to 240 but I dont think he can get there considering it was a huge chore for him just to stick to 225 in college. But he has a better Strength coach in Lott so we shall see.

 

[Shane]

Players lose weight in camp. Just for comparison's sake, here are the heights and weights of some of the other WILBs around the NFL:

Patrick Willis (SF) - 6'1", 240
Keith Brooking (DAL) - 6'2", 241
Karlos Dansby (MIA) - 6'4", 250
Nick Barnett (I'm guessing he plays WILB because A.J. Hawk has been such a huge disappointment for the Packers) (GB) - 6'2", 236
Tavares Gooden (BAL) - 6'1", 238
David Harris (NYJ) - 6'2", 245
Lawrence Timmons (PIT) - 6'1", 234

Players generally lose weight in camp. One of the concerns that I had about Washington was that he has SUCH a lean frame, and I wasn't sure whether he could put on weight. He played at 225 or less at TCU. On his draft conference, he expected to come in at 235 to minicamp, which apparently didn't happen.

You must be registered for see images

To me, he doesn't even look as bulky as Lawrence Timmons, who has had his own struggles with consistency at Pittsburgh, but whom I view as a projection of Daryl Washington:

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As tall as he is, I think that you want him playing at at least 240, and you hope that his second season he's between 240 and 245. If you think that Karlos Dansby ran around blockers...

In other long and lean linebacker news, Bengal fans love former Cardinal draft pick Brandon Johnson and have been openly wondering whether he's better than Keith Rivers.

You must be registered for see images

Johnson would play the weak side for the Bengals and plays at 6'5", 240.

Trust me Washington is bigger than that picture you posted. His arms are definitely bigger. When you look at A-Dub the last thing that comes to your mind is small regardless of position. When I looked at them side by side they seemed to be right about the same size. Thats why I used him for comparison. Not to mention he has been working with Lott since the draft. They havent changed his weight on the website since the draft. Its reasonable to assume he has probably put on a few pounds at least.

This guy is just about the same size at 6'2" 236:

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Demarrio Williams is 6'1" 232:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Demorrio_Williams.JPG/200px-

Stephen Cooper is 6'1" 234:

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So while while 230 might not be ideal like say 240. These are very productive starting ILBers in the NFL. I dont think its out of the question that he could do the job as is.

 

[Shane]

You look like you picked the one picture that may have been taken when he was a freshmen with that one above too BTW:

He is def already bigger here than in the one you posted:

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[Duckjake]

I think we'll start to see the NFL look even more for quicker guys to play the WILB spot to counter the speedier TE's as referenced in this article:


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/sports/football/15tightends.html

We all know that TEs killed us last season. Even the slower ones.

Clark 7-62-1
Daniels 8-94
Olsen 5-71-3
Davis 8-74-1 (2 games)
Lewis 3-62-1
Scaife 5-68
Finley 11-193-1 (2 games)
Shockey 3-36-1 (on one leg)

Even Shiancoe who only had 2 catches for 14 yards had a TD vs Arizona.

I really don't know if it is abnormal but 9 TD catches by Tight Ends in 11 games seems like a lot.

 

[kerouac9]

Brandon Johnson is a classic example of a guy who took a long time to get the mental aspects of the game in his thick skull. 99% of the NFL just doesn't have the patience to wait for that to happen. He actually still might not be a house hold name with the Bengals if they didn't end up with that horrible season were at one point their top 5 LB's on their depth chart were injured for the year.

I would be happy if he played like Timmons. 13 games - 78 tackles, 7 sacks, 4 PD's, 4 FF. That is very close to Dansby's best season at WILB. But like I said Timmons wasnt let loose until he gained 2 years of NFL Strength and Conditioning. Plus he is 2 inches shorter, 5 pounds heavier, making him like 10 pounds thicker then Washington in my own weird sort of math. I would be happy if Washington could get to 240 but I dont think he can get there considering it was a huge chore for him just to stick to 225 in college. But he has a better Strength coach in Lott so we shall see.

That's kind of what I think. I asked Darren Urban what Washington reported at and he couldn't tell me, which makes me think that he's not as big as he wanted to be. As I said, I think that the team drafted what they thought Washington could eventually become, but I'm certain that he's not there yet.

I can also say that Steeler fans don't think that Timmons is all the way there, even now. He makes a lot of plays, but he also misses on a ton of plays, and the Steelers paid Foote--what?--three times what the Cards ended up paying Lenon to come in and give him some competition.

Trust me Washington is bigger than that picture you posted. His arms are definitely bigger. When you look at A-Dub the last thing that comes to your mind is small regardless of position. When I looked at them side by side they seemed to be right about the same size. Thats why I used him for comparison. Not to mention he has been working with Lott since the draft. They havent changed his weight on the website since the draft. Its reasonable to assume he has probably put on a few pounds at least.

This guy is just about the same size at 6'2" 236:

You must be registered for see images attach

Demarrio Williams is 6'1" 232:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Demorrio_Williams.JPG/200px-

Stephen Cooper is 6'1" 234:

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So while while 230 might not be ideal like say 240. These are very productive starting ILBers in the NFL. I dont think its out of the question that he could do the job as is.

And A-Dub is a great size--for a safety. But Daryl Washington doesn't play safety--he plays linebacker. There aren't a lot of linebackers who play at 225. He's also 3 inches taller than Steven Cooper. As joe suggested, it's not just about weight, it's about being "thick," and Washington just isn't that thick.

Demarrio Williams also sucks, and played on a terrible defense (30th in the NFL overall, 29th in scoring, 31st in rush defense). Is that really where you want to turn for evidence that Washington is going to be okay? Derrick Johnson is the guy whom I think the Chiefs want to start at that position, and he's much more solid at 6'3", 242, but took a long time to get adjusted to the defense.

 

[Shane]

That's kind of what I think. I asked Darren Urban what Washington reported at and he couldn't tell me, which makes me think that he's not as big as he wanted to be. As I said, I think that the team drafted what they thought Washington could eventually become, but I'm certain that he's not there yet.

I can also say that Steeler fans don't think that Timmons is all the way there, even now. He makes a lot of plays, but he also misses on a ton of plays, and the Steelers paid Foote--what?--three times what the Cards ended up paying Lenon to come in and give him some competition.



And A-Dub is a great size--for a safety. But Daryl Washington doesn't play safety--he plays linebacker. There aren't a lot of linebackers who play at 225. He's also 3 inches taller than Steven Cooper. As joe suggested, it's not just about weight, it's about being "thick," and Washington just isn't that thick.

Demarrio Williams also sucks, and played on a terrible defense (30th in the NFL overall, 29th in scoring, 31st in rush defense). Is that really where you want to turn for evidence that Washington is going to be okay? Derrick Johnson is the guy whom I think the Chiefs want to start at that position, and he's much more solid at 6'3", 242, but took a long time to get adjusted to the defense.

Way to ignore Nick Barnett. Also way to make it sound like WIlliams is the sole reason the Chiefs D was ranked 30th. According to the measurment I looked up Cooper is only an inch shorter not 3 inches. Also Again who says that Washington will be playing at 225?

 

[kerouac9]

I think we'll start to see the NFL look even more for quicker guys to play the WILB spot to counter the speedier TE's as referenced in this article:


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/sports/football/15tightends.html

We all know that TEs killed us last season. Even the slower ones.

Clark 7-62-1
Daniels 8-94
Olsen 5-71-3
Davis 8-74-1 (2 games)
Lewis 3-62-1
Scaife 5-68
Finley 11-193-1 (2 games)
Shockey 3-36-1 (on one leg)

Even Shiancoe who only had 2 catches for 14 yards had a TD vs Arizona.

I really don't know if it is abnormal but 9 TD catches by Tight Ends in 11 games seems like a lot.

I think that's more why you're seeing safeties getting drafted higher and higher--like Earl Thomas this year. And why safeties are getting bigger. I think you hope for your safeties to run with those tight ends, especially when they get flexed out wide.

The Cards put Dansby in a terrible situation in the New Orleans game where he was forced to play man-up on Marques Colston out of the slot because Rolle was down and there wasn't anyone else who they could possibly match up with him for.

The Cards were actually pretty good covering TEs last season--11th in the NFL vs. TEs according to FootballOutsiders' stats. I think that's a huge credit to Dansby and his 60% success rate against the pass. It's just that when Adrian Wilson had a melt-down against guys, it usually worked out poorly.

 

[Duckjake]

The Cards were actually pretty good covering TEs last season--11th in the NFL vs. TEs according to FootballOutsiders' stats.

Doesn't that take into account the number of incomplete attempts to the TE as well?

50 catches for 660 Yards and 8 TDs in 10 games seems high to me. That projects out to 80 catches for 1056 yards and 13 TDs for a season. That would be a top 5 NFL Tight End.

 

[Bert]

Dude, we all saw him play twice last year with the Rams and once in each of 2006 and 2007 with the Lions. Get over yourself.

It's remarkable that Paris Lenon hadn't made a positive impression on anyone on this board based on how often we've seen him. Comparatively, I remember people thinking we should claim Pino Tinoisomoa off waivers when he was released by the Rams because he was all right three or four seasons ago.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize I was dealing with an expert on all things Paris Lenon.

My point was that the coach said he looks good and thats encouraging. Did I say he was going to be better than Dansby? Not once. Anyways, peace, no need to get personal. Now excuse me I'm gonna go "get over myself".

 

[gamebird98]

Like K9 & Big red said what do you expect him to say? When's the last time you heard a NFL coach say one of his starters sucks publicly?[/quote]
Buddy Ryan 19............ pick a year

 

[kerouac9]

Way to ignore Nick Barnett. Also way to make it sound like WIlliams is the sole reason the Chiefs D was ranked 30th. According to the measurment I looked up Cooper is only an inch shorter not 3 inches. Also Again who says that Washington will be playing at 225?

I didn't ignore Nick Barnett. He was on my original listing of WILBs. But he's also two inches shorter and 5-10 lbs lighter than Washington. He was a really controversial draft pick when the Packers took him in the first round. I think that Barnett/Timmons are the ceiling for Washington.

STATS, Inc. lists Cooper at 6'1"; NFL.com lists him at same. Washington is 6'4". That's three inches.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I didn't ignore Nick Barnett. He was on my original listing of WILBs. But he's also two inches shorter and 5-10 lbs lighter than Washington. He was a really controversial draft pick when the Packers took him in the first round. I think that Barnett/Timmons are the ceiling for Washington.

STATS, Inc. lists Cooper at 6'1"; NFL.com lists him at same. Washington is 6'4". That's three inches.

NO Daryl Washington is 6'2''....

 

[Shane]

I didn't ignore Nick Barnett. He was on my original listing of WILBs. But he's also two inches shorter and 5-10 lbs lighter than Washington. He was a really controversial draft pick when the Packers took him in the first round. I think that Barnett/Timmons are the ceiling for Washington.

STATS, Inc. lists Cooper at 6'1"; NFL.com lists him at same. Washington is 6'4". That's three inches.

You might want to consider a different site for your height and weights. NFL.com has the proper measurements. Daryl Washinton is 6'2" not 6'4" no way no how. Im 6'4" Daryl Washington is not 6'4".

Nick Barnett IS NOT 2 inches shorter. He is exactly 6'2" just like Washington. only weighs 235.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think the weight question is vastly overblown...

We're talking a difference of 10 lbs or so. I'll take a guy who's a little smaller, but faster than any of the other guys in a heartbeat.

 

[kerouac9]

I was wrong. Daryl Washington is 6'2". He just looks taller because he's so lean.

I just hope that when I see him in the preseason he has a lot more weight in his thighs and ass. I don't see Colorado State on our schedule this year, and Stephen Jackson is a little harder to bring down than Alvester Alexander.

 

[kerouac9]

Doesn't that take into account the number of incomplete attempts to the TE as well?

50 catches for 660 Yards and 8 TDs in 10 games seems high to me. That projects out to 80 catches for 1056 yards and 13 TDs for a season. That would be a top 5 NFL Tight End.

It does take into account incompletions. Part of that is our poor open-field tackling, for which Rolle was responsible in part.

But we held Dallas Clark below his season yardage average (62 v. just over 65). So that's something, right?

 

[joeshmo]

We're talking a difference of 10 lbs or so.

If it were so over blown then strength and conditioning coaches wouldn't be so worried about or get paid 6/7 figures a year to help make sure guys gain or loss 5 lbs. Especially at skill positions. How many times do we here about a guy specifically a skill position being asked to lose or gain about 10 pounds to improve his game. They asked Beanie to loss 10 pounds, one year Fitz actually got to big and he was asked to loss 10 pounds the next year, Campbell was asked to gain 10 pounds between his rookie and 2nd year. Dansby was asked to gain 5-10 pounds when Lott first got here, DRC was asked to gain 5-10 pounds when he got here. Lots of people being asked to loss or gain 5-10 pounds for it to not matter much IMO.