Path to the draft....trades, rumors, etc

[Ronin]

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[BritCard]

Have you read anything about what I think about Conner? It's not silly in comparison, taking that into consideration.

Does it matter what any of us think when the stats say otherwise? Conner has 4.3 YPC and a 923 yard season. Conner 2nd best season is only 15 yards shy of Hightowers best.

Conner is only 600 yards shy of Hightowers career and still has 2 years on him.

If you think Hightower is better than Conner we have been wasting our time discussing running backs.

 

[BritCard]

Eli Manning had the postseason's leading rusher, a guy who had bracketed 1,000 yard seasons but missed part of the season due to health. Matt Ryan had a pro-bowl RB who provided an additional 54 receptions and 462 yards in the air. Remember, the position isn't just what happens on the ground. Jimmy G had a great running system that we don't have, Goff wouldn't have gotten to the Super Bowl or the playoffs without having the RB in the first place, so it's plainly ridiculous to dismiss that. Cam Newton had a Pro Bowl RB in Stewart, whether you like it or not.

You're grasping at straws trying to point out how useless an RB is.

Drew Brees had been a 3 time Pro-Bowler up to his run with the Saints, and threw for 5,000 yards just the year prior. Yes, he was absolutely considered great and was well on the way to being considered legendary. It's not like he won that Super Bowl like 2nd year Tom Brady.

The only reason "committee" backfields have made it to the Super Bowl more in recent history is because of Tom Brady and now Patrick Mahomes.

Literally none of that is remotely accurate. It doesn't matter if they had a running back that was once great, or great before, or great after. It matters what happened in the season those teams were at their peak.

Freeman was never a great running back. Conner made the Pro bowl. If you want to use that then Conner is great no?

Maybe we should bring in Gurley or Lev Bell. They were great once.

Ahmad Bradshaw wasn't injured. He played nearly every game that year. Brandon Jacobs was the starter and had 800 yards.

I could remove the Pats and Chiefs and still easily have more committees than feature backs.

And who's clutching at straws when you start including air yards?

 

[Solar7]

Literally none of that is remotely accurate. It doesn't matter if they had a running back that was once great, or great before, or great after. It matters what happened in the season those teams were at their peak.

Freeman was never a great running back. Conner made the Pro bowl. If you want to use that then Conner is great no?

Maybe we should bring in Gurley or Lev Bell. They were great once.

Dude, I am talking about the seasons in which they made the playoffs and the point in which they were at in their careers.

Freeman was one of the most dynamic backs in the league at the time they went to the Super Bowl, and if you disagree, you just weren't watching.

This has nothing to do with what they did "once." It's what they did in the moment.

Ahmad Bradshaw wasn't injured. He played nearly every game that year. Brandon Jacobs was the starter and had 800 yards.

I could remove the Pats and Chiefs and still easily have more committees than feature backs.

And who's clutching at straws when you start including air yards?

What? Bradshaw missed 4 full games and was only the starter for 9 because of a fractured foot (sorry for the cached link).
https://webcache.googleusercontent....shaw-fractured-foot+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Wait, are air yards and passing game production suddenly not a thing for RBs? Is this the 1970s? I suppose I should erase 50% of Chase Edmonds' production from any future argument you make for him then. Also the 55 receptions for 500 yards of passing production in James Conner's only Pro Bowl year.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Literally none of that is remotely accurate. It doesn't matter if they had a running back that was once great, or great before, or great after. It matters what happened in the season those teams were at their peak.

Freeman was never a great running back. Conner made the Pro bowl. If you want to use that then Conner is great no?

Maybe we should bring in Gurley or Lev Bell. They were great once.

Ahmad Bradshaw wasn't injured. He played nearly every game that year. Brandon Jacobs was the starter and had 800 yards.

I could remove the Pats and Chiefs and still easily have more committees than feature backs.

And who's clutching at straws when you start including air yards?

Those teams running back groups were all better than what the Cards have.

I don’t get it, what’s wrong with having a good/top RB? The Cards might have the worst RB room in the NFC. When teams have to worry about the run game, it helps the pass game.
You guys are using SB winning teams as a barometer. That’s a bad comparison when just factoring a run game. A lot of factors go into a SB winning run.
He’s not my first choice, but I not going to be mad if the Cards select Najee Harris. He’s likely going to be a factor in the league.
Fwiw, I heard Bill Polian talking about him and he absolutely loves him.

 

[BritCard]

Freeman was one of the most dynamic backs in the league at the time they went to the Super Bowl, and if you disagree, you just weren't watching.
What? Bradshaw missed 4 full games and was only the starter for 9 because of a fractured foot (sorry for the cached link).
https://webcache.googleusercontent....shaw-fractured-foot+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Wait, are air yards and passing game production suddenly not a thing for RBs? Is this the 1970s? I suppose I should erase 50% of Chase Edmonds' production from any future argument you make for him then. Also the 55 receptions for 500 yards of passing production in James Conner's only Pro Bowl year.

I was thinking of a different season but my point still stands. In the games Bradshaw did play he had 3.9 YPC and wouldn't have broken 900 had he not missed 4.

Freeman had a good season. He wasn't a great back. There's a difference. It's well within Connor or Edmonds ability to have a similar season if we have a good offense.

Air yards count but not in a conversation about 20 pages long when they haven't been brought up or included once. I'm not shifting the goalposts now, and both our RBs are capable receivers. Conner has a 500 yard season.

 

[BritCard]

Those teams running back groups were all better than what the Cards have.

I don’t get it, what’s wrong with having a good/top RB? The Cards might have the worst RB room in the NFC. When teams have to worry about the run game, it helps the pass game.
You guys are using SB winning teams as a barometer. That’s a bad comparison when just factoring a run game. A lot of factors go into a SB winning run.
He’s not my first choice, but I not going to be mad if the Cards select Najee Harris. He’s likely going to be a factor in the league.
Fwiw, I heard Bill Polian talking about him and he absolutely loves him.

There's nothing wrong with it if you have that luxury. We don't.

You can't afford to spend primo picks or limited cap on a position of decreasing importance when we have many more important holes.

 

[CardNots]

There's nothing wrong with it if you have that luxury. We don't.

You can't afford to spend primo picks or limited cap on a position of decreasing importance when we have many more important holes.

we passed on a game changing HofF RB once before, history says we’ll go OL

This time I’d be okay with that.

 

[Solar7]

There's nothing wrong with it if you have that luxury. We don't.

You can't afford to spend primo picks or limited cap on a position of decreasing importance when we have many more important holes.

If there's a possibility of patching the other holes with a reasonable stopgap, we do. Also, it's about playing to your strengths. What's this team closer to? An elite offense, or an elite defense?

If you've got to go all in for one year (which is what this situation is), take the ball and run with it. Literally. Put up so many points and control the clock that the defense doesn't matter as much.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm no authority on it, the history book is the authority. Analytics are the authority on it. I've shown you years and years of history of superbowl finalists and winners with poor to average RB rooms where starting RB's didn;t top 600 yards, never mind 1k. There's far, far more data saying that you don't need anything better than what we have right now. Then there's a whole bunch of articles about how RB has no value anymore, about how drafting one high or paying one mega money is stupid in todays game.

And in the face of all this data you still want a high draft pick or a guy that would command $8-$10m a year. Both things which all analytics say are silly.

I'd still like to add more to the room, I'd like another cheap vet with experience like Gallman. But otherwise I think there's plenty of talent, if our O line and play calling are good.

I can’t believe you’re still using only super bowl teams as the data set...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No Solar. This was already debunked in this thread.

Eli Manning didn't have a great running back. 2015 Peyton didn't have a great running back. Nick Foles didn't have a great running back. Jimmy G didn't have a great running back. Matt Ryan didn't have a great running back, he had Freeman that just about eeked out 1000 yards, and actually I forgot the other day when you mentioned this but Jared Goff didn't have a good running back when it mattered most. Gurley was injured late in the season and played sparingly in the playoffs and SB and had something like 47 yards in the post season, although granted he helped get them to the playoffs. Cam Newton didn't have a great running back, he had 979 yards and 6 TD's from Jonathan Stewart at 4.1 YPC.

Go back a little further. The 2009 Saints didn't have a RB over 800 yards and I don't believe at that time Brees was considered a "great".

Far, far more teams have made the SB with a running back committee than a star RB. That's just a fact. And it's not even remotely close.

Edmonds, Conner and another would be enough if the rest of the offense is good enough, and if it's not it wouldn't matter anyway because never in history as a team rode a running back anywhere. Not even the best of all time, Barry Sanders.

Silly untrue hyperbole alert!

 

[QuebecCard]

If there's a possibility of patching the other holes with a reasonable stopgap, we do. Also, it's about playing to your strengths. What's this team closer to? An elite offense, or an elite defense?

If you've got to go all in for one year (which is what this situation is), take the ball and run with it. Literally. Put up so many points and control the clock that the defense doesn't matter as much.

We don't know.

 

[Stout]

If all this "never draft a RB high" nonsense is the gospel, why is it every draftnik is predicting the Stillers to take a RB in the first round? I mean, surely not the vaunted Stillers!

Like most "absolutes," this one is not in the least bit absolute.

 

[Solar7]

We don't know.

I feel like this is your answer to most everything, which is fine if you're just a "sit back and watch" kind of fan, which I get. I'm that way with the Sun Devils, and the Suns to an extent (more in that I don't know as much about basketball as I do football).

But most opinionated watchers of the NFL, given the direction we went with head coach and QB just years ago, would probably paint us as an offensive-based team, closer to success there.

 

[Dante]

As of yesterday, I’m told the Cardinals covet three players in the draft. All of them come from the SEC, and two of the three are Crimson Tide alumni.

The three players are cornerbacks Patrick Surtain and Jaycee Horn, as well as receiver Jaylen Waddle. The Cardinals have a gaping hole at cornerback, which either Surtain or Horn can fill, while Waddle brings a deep threat at the receiver position. Yet, it’s unlikely any of those three players will be available when Arizona is on the clock at No. 16. Sources tell me Tulsa linebacker Zaven Collins could be the pick.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/...tulsa-lb-zaven-collins-with-first-round-pick/

 

[Proximo]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/...tulsa-lb-zaven-collins-with-first-round-pick/

That sounds like totally accurate Cards info to me.

Collins kind of looks like a poor mans Simmons. He looks ok, but he looks more like a middle linebacker than a pass rusher to me. Feel like we should trade down a few spots if he is the plan though.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/...tulsa-lb-zaven-collins-with-first-round-pick/

I think zaven Collins would be a close second to a RB selection in causing head combustion for many on ASFN.

 

[Solar7]

I think zaven Collins would be a close second to a RB selection in causing head combustion for many on ASFN.

Thank God I've already decided I'm going to start drinking again on draft night, haha.

 

[DVontel]

We draft Zaven Collins with the 1st pick man I might just drown myself in alcohol

 

[football karma]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/...tulsa-lb-zaven-collins-with-first-round-pick/

i was the guy who noted a Front Office type and a Cardinal media person both talked inside linebacker yesterday....

that being said, Pauline goes on to say that they view Collins as someone to step in if Golden and/or CJ arent back after this season

the problem with that is Collins is a Jordan Hicks type ILB, not a pass rushing 3/4 OLB. that killed Pauline's credibility on this "information"

 

[SoonerLou]

i was the guy who noted a Front Office type and a Cardinal media person both talked inside linebacker yesterday....

that being said, Pauline goes on to say that they view Collins as someone to step in if Golden and/or CJ arent back after this season

the problem with that is Collins is a Jordan Hicks type ILB, not a pass rushing 3/4 OLB. that killed Pauline's credibility on this "information"

TBF arent we known for playing guys out of position?

We draft Zaven Collins with the 1st pick man I might just drown myself in alcohol

Record it and post it here. Will do us some good.

 

[GatorAZ]

Now, wouldn't that be something. I see Waddle as the best receiver in this draft. Instead of trading up, I could also see them trading down a tad & drafting Harris before the Steelers snatch him up. We owe that to them for trading up & snatching Shazier & Dupree just before our picks.

One of Waddle or Smith should be there at 16. I would definitely pull the trigger on Waddle in that scenario because he’s a complete WR. He can play inside or out, he’s an excellent deep threat but can also take a slant or screen to the house and returns punts.

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[BritCard]

we passed on a game changing HofF RB once before, history says we’ll go OL

This time I’d be okay with that.

lol imagine thinking there a running back close to Peterson in this draft

 

[BritCard]

I can’t believe you’re still using only super bowl teams as the data set...

Why? What's better to use than data from the ultimate prize? What else matters?

That's like me saying "90% of people that make it to the top of Everest use an experienced Sherpa" and you saying "Yeah but what about those that make it to base camp?"

 

[BritCard]

If all this "never draft a RB high" nonsense is the gospel, why is it every draftnik is predicting the Stillers to take a RB in the first round? I mean, surely not the vaunted Stillers!

Like most "absolutes," this one is not in the least bit absolute.

One running back might go in the 1st round wowzers. And even that's not set in stone.