Pathetic

[Harry]

That’s really the only word I can use to accurately assess the state of the Cards. The only real question that remains is where to go from here. We all know if it has feathers, lays eggs, swims in the pond and quacks, it’s a duck no matter how much wishful swan thinking we all project. This is yet another classically bad team.

Here’s what I don’t want to hear going forward.

1. Anyone remotely connected with this team saying, “We’re not the same old Cardinals” or taking offense when someone else says it about this team.

2. Anyone named Bidwill whining about how the lack of community support holds back the Cardinals.

3. Anyone named Warner, male or female, arguing how he never gets a fair chance to show what he can still do or complaining that, “The center made me do it.” It’s bad enough to throw your center under the bus on TV, but let’s keep in mind that the Cards are taking a knee if Warner had earlier recalled what color uniform his teammates were wearing.

4. Anyone from the coaching staff explaining how Calvin Pace is new to linebacking and he doesn’t understand the term “containment” yet.

5. Anyone from the defensive end group explaining how close they have come to sacking the QB.

6. Anyone named Green (without the extra “e”) blaming the coaches or the personnel for not executing. If he didn’t like the way Macklin plays corner, why is he still on the roster after 3 years? Why wasn’t a CB acquired or simply drafted in the off-season? Four corners who can still run would seem to be the minimum requirement for starting a season. How many years does it take to build a decent offensive line? It didn’t have to be great, just decent would be a nice occurrence during Green’s tenure. Do the words “experienced” and “coordinator” have any direct association in Green’s mind?

7. Anyone from the NFL office explaining how the Rams didn’t really decline a penalty. Perhaps the Cards in the future should with until the opponent’s offensive package is on the field to decide whether or not to accept a penalty. This was even better that getting the coin flip wrong.

8. Any fans saying, “Put in Leinart.” I’d like Leinart to live long enough to have a successful career with the next coaching staff. I don’t want him to get "Chris Simmed." Let him get all his reps in practice where there is no pass rush to hurt him, since they're all Cardinal defensive ends.

What I do want to hear is simple.

1. Someone who will still be here to see it saying by next year the Cards will have an entirely new offensive line, preferably one the doesn’t resemble a set of the world’s largest weebles.

2. Someone who will still be here to see it saying that next year when the season starts the Cards will have used up virtually all of their cap space. This includes paying backups more than the NFL minimum.

3. Someone who will still be here to see it saying experience coordinators will be calling the plays.

4. Someone who will still be here to see it saying Leinart will be the starting QB in 2007.

5. Someone who will still be here to see it saying a blocking tight end will be acquired if Pope doesn’t show major progress in this area.

6. Someone who will still be here to see it saying a “real” GM will be hired.


It’s time for a housecleaning. This is not to say that what Dennis Green did was a waste. He stocked this roster with more quality athletes than were on this roster at any point in AZ Cardinal history. Now someone is needed who can get them to play at the next level and move this team forward. If these changes don’t happen at least season ticket holders will be suffering in the comfort of a new stadium. As Bill Bidwill loves to say, “It’s nice to have a place to call home.” He could have added, especially if I’m making tons of money from having it.

 

[Rats]

That’s really the only word I can use to accurately assess the state of the Cards. The only real question that remains is where to go from here. We all know if it has feathers, lays eggs, swims in the pond and quacks, it’s a duck no matter how much wishful swan thinking we all project. This is yet another classically bad team.

Here’s what I don’t want to hear going forward.

1. Anyone remotely connected with this team saying, “We’re not the same old Cardinals” or taking offense when someone else says it about this team.

2. Anyone named Bidwill whining about how the lack of community support holds back the Cardinals.

3. Anyone named Warner, male or female, arguing how he never gets a fair chance to show what he can still do or complaining that, “The center made me do it.” It’s bad enough to throw your center under the bus on TV, but let’s keep in mind that the Cards are taking a knee if Warner had earlier recalled what color uniform his teammates were wearing.

4. Anyone from the coaching staff explaining how Calvin Pace is new to linebacking and he doesn’t understand the term “containment” yet.

5. Anyone from the defensive end group explaining how close they have come to sacking the QB.

6. Anyone named Green (without the extra “e”) blaming the coaches or the personnel for not executing. If he didn’t like the way Macklin plays corner, why is he still on the roster after 3 years? Why wasn’t a CB acquired or simply drafted in the off-season? Four corners who can still run would seem to be the minimum requirement for starting a season. How many years does it take to build a decent offensive line? It didn’t have to be great, just decent would be a nice occurrence during Green’s tenure. Do the words “experienced” and “coordinator” have any direct association in Green’s mind?

7. Anyone from the NFL office explaining how the Rams didn’t really decline a penalty. Perhaps the Cards in the future should with until the opponent’s offensive package is on the field to decide whether or not to accept a penalty. This was even better that getting the coin flip wrong.

8. Any fans saying, “Put in Leinart.” I’d like Leinart to live long enough to have a successful career with the next coaching staff. I don’t want him to get "Chris Simmed." Let him get all his reps in practice where there is no pass rush to hurt him, since they're all Cardinal defensive ends.

What I do want to hear is simple.

1. Someone who will still be here to see it saying by next year the Cards will have an entirely new offensive line, preferably one the doesn’t resemble a set of the world’s largest weebles.

2. Someone who will still be here to see it saying that next year when the season starts the Cards will have used up virtually all of their cap space. This includes paying backups more than the NFL minimum.

3. Someone who will still be here to see it saying experience coordinators will be calling the plays.

4. Someone who will still be here to see it saying Leinart will be the starting QB in 2007.

5. Someone who will still be here to see it saying a blocking tight end will be acquired if Pope doesn’t show major progress in this area.

6. Someone who will still be here to see it saying a “real” GM will be hired.


It’s time for a housecleaning. This is not to say that what Dennis Green did was a waste. He stocked this roster with more quality athletes than were on this roster at any point in AZ Cardinal history. Now someone is needed who can get them to play at the next level and move this team forward. If these changes don’t happen at least season ticket holders will be suffering in the comfort of a new stadium. As Bill Bidwill loves to say, “It’s nice to have a place to call home.” He could have added, especially if I’m making tons of money from having it.

Harry, you are usually fair in your assessment but there are so many things in that post that are unfair that I almost feel you have lost it. I am going to chalk it up to a really bad Monday after a really tough Cardinal style loss.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I totally agree with Harry - except for starting Leinart. It's time to start the future. Troy Aikman and Peyton took a beating their first years - the best can handle it and it just makes them stronger.

otherwise, as usual, I agree with everything you wrote.

 

[az1965]

I think you are angry, Harry...

 

[MrY]

Let him get all his reps in practice where there is no pass rush to hurt him, since they're all Cardinal defensive ends.

Dude...thats harsh, funny, but harsh

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I think it's a bit of a kneejerk reaction, but I have a hard time disagreeing with much of what Harry wrote. Sucks that things are looking so down, I'm really not that excited about starting over...again.

 

[arthurracoon]

Dude...thats harsh, funny, but harsh

yup

man we suck.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think it's a bit of a kneejerk reaction, but I have a hard time disagreeing with much of what Harry wrote. Sucks that things are looking so down, I'm really not that excited about starting over...again.

I am because we FINALLY have the missing ingredient whichis crucial to EVERY TEAM which has to start over -- A FRANCHISE QB.

Now if Leniart sucks also (God forbid), then we should all officially undergo hypnosis to rid us of our Cardinal fandom because then we will finally have shown that there is NOTHING the Cardinals can do to ever make them good.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

We're still going to have to start over if and when the Bidwills pull the plug on the Green/Graves experiment. You really think everyone's going to be on board with a new coach who willl likely be the anti-Denny if Bidwillian head coach hiring trends remain true?

I'm guessing of our core ten players (Edge, Leinart, Fitz, Boldin, Adrian, Dansby, Dockett, Berry, Rolle, Rackers) we probbaly lose three of them either due to differences with coaching or just flat out getting sick of the Cardinals. Hopefully it's the negligible guys like Berry who's been awful and is getting old or newly shrined headcase Dansby but knowing the Cardinals luck it will not be.

 

[Rats]

I totally agree with Harry - except for starting Leinart. It's time to start the future. Troy Aikman and Peyton took a beating their first years - the best can handle it and it just makes them stronger.

otherwise, as usual, I agree with everything you wrote.

I will concede that both did take a beating and were better for it, if you will concede that neither played for the Bidwill Cardinals.

 

[conraddobler]

I am because we FINALLY have the missing ingredient whichis crucial to EVERY TEAM which has to start over -- A FRANCHISE QB.

Now if Leniart sucks also (God forbid), then we should all officially undergo hypnosis to rid us of our Cardinal fandom because then we will finally have shown that there is NOTHING the Cardinals can do to ever make them good.

If Leinart stinks, "shudders at a thought too horrible to contemplate" well frankly that's just not possible, oh please God.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We're still going to have to start over if and when the Bidwills pull the plug on the Green/Graves experiment. You really think everyone's going to be on board with a new coach who willl likely be the anti-Denny if Bidwillian head coach hiring trends remain true?

I'm guessing of our core ten players (Edge, Leinart, Fitz, Boldin, Adrian, Dansby, Dockett, Berry, Rolle, Rackers) we probbaly lose three of them either due to differences with coaching or just flat out getting sick of the Cardinals. Hopefully it's the negligible guys like Berry who's been awful and is getting old or newly shrined headcase Dansby but knowing the Cardinals luck it will not be.

I gotta tell you, I don't really see our core being bigger than 4 guys at this point - Matt, Edge, Boldin and Fitz - everyone else is replaceable as far as I'm concerned either due to age or never having proven a thing...or being a kicker.

With a high pick and 5 billion dollars in cap room, with a season worth of play coming up for Matt, any DECENT HC should be able to come in here and at least light up the scoreboard with that foursome as well as put together a defense that could at least be average.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I will concede that both did take a beating and were better for it, if you will concede that neither played for the Bidwill Cardinals.

I will concede that - but I'm hoping the power of Leinart can overcome Bidwill. He's our Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Help us Matt Leinart, you're our only hope.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I gotta tell you, I don't really see our core being bigger than 4 guys at this point - Matt, Edge, Boldin and Fitz - everyone else is replaceable as far as I'm concerned either due to age or never having proven a thing...or being a kicker.

Those four are the untouchables, the rest are the core as DG and Graves see them. Wilson, Rackers, and a sane Dansby are obviously crucial as they're guys you cannot replace with some marginally paid veteran. The problem is but you could easily make an argument that with DG gone that Edge and Fitz would be less enthused about hanging around. Edge likes his easy training camps and a laid-back coach who will let him jet off to Miami and I get the feeling the next coach is going to be a bit of a disciplinarian. Obviously Fitz and Green's history is well documented. I don't think Boldin snaps until later in his career and we have no idea what to expect from Leinart.

With a high pick and 5 billion dollars in cap room, with a season worth of play coming up for Matt, any DECENT HC should be able to come in here and at least light up the scoreboard with that foursome as well as put together a defense that could at least be average.

You would think so, but at the same time I thought with about hundred million in free agent dollars to play with an multiple high draft picks you could build a team that's at least mediocre. But that's not what we're seeing out there this year.

Seriously, I pray Matt makes all these doomsday scenarios obselete by tearing up the NFL starting Sunday.

 

[devilfan02]

Harry, you are usually fair in your assessment but there are so many things in that post that are unfair that I almost feel you have lost it. I am going to chalk it up to a really bad Monday after a really tough Cardinal style loss.

I agree with everything Harry says. This is the same old 5-11 Cards team we are so used to. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to put the kool aid down. It's harsh but 100% true. Change is very much needed in nearly every facet of this organization- OL, CB, QB, LB, Coaching, front office...... How long will it take for Denny to get a average line? Football starts with the OL and DL and we seem to have a long ways to go

 

[Burg72]

I'm just so sick and tired of starting over with a new HC and system. It's just so convenient for the organization to do that. It's like we take a bunch of baby steps forward just to take a couple of big steps back to where we begun. I wish we could just start over with a new owner. Everyone knows that's the problem. I'm the pathetic one for going through this year after year. All we can do is just keep trying this year. It's still early and anything can happen every single Sunday. Thank Madden for his curse (Alexander's foot) and giving us a little help.

 

[jefftheshark]

Harry, you are usually fair in your assessment but there are so many things in that post that are unfair that I almost feel you have lost it. I am going to chalk it up to a really bad Monday after a really tough Cardinal style loss.

It is generally tough to take on Harry in this forum, but I agree with what you just wrote.

#1 - Our defense is not perfect, but look at the scoreboard. We held the Rams to fewer points than Denver did and Seattle to considerably less than the Giants, yet NY & Bronco fans are not panicing about their defenses. Berry seemed a step slow yesterday, but there was pressure being applied, just not sacks.

#2 - How can Harry call out Warner and yet not want him replaced? Does anyone think Navarre is the answer?

#3 - The o-line was not the problem yesterday. To call for their total replacement is hyper-ventilating.

#4 - The true test of Green's character is now going to be seen. If he can pick himself off of the floor after yesterdays game, I am going to support him. If he doesn't make any adjustments, then I'll throw him under the bus.

The Shark

 

[conraddobler]

It is generally tough to take on Harry in this forum, but I agree with what you just wrote.

#1 - Our defense is not perfect, but look at the scoreboard. We held the Rams to fewer points than Denver did and Seattle to considerably less than the Giants, yet NY & Bronco fans are not panicing about their defenses. Berry seemed a step slow yesterday, but there was pressure being applied, just not sacks.

#2 - How can Harry call out Warner and yet not want him replaced? Does anyone think Navarre is the answer?

#3 - The o-line was not the problem yesterday. To call for their total replacement is hyper-ventilating.

#4 - The true test of Green's character is now going to be seen. If he can pick himself off of the floor after yesterdays game, I am going to support him. If he doesn't make any adjustments, then I'll throw him under the bus.

The Shark

I love reading Harry's stuff but I don't always agree, his football knowledge is far superior to mine, however as fans we all have opinons and we don't agree on everything, it makes it more fun that way.

90 % of the time I agree with him, this time though, I think they had to make the change.

I saw some positives out of this team but the one constant I saw was key people shooting the whole teams foot off, I'd like to field a starting group that began minimizing that, if we do that, amazing things can and will happen IMO.

 

[WildBB]

I really think we need to wear garlic cloves around our necks and wear rosaries or something. Those old Sundevil demons won't let go. We have to exorcise the old "Cardinals demons" out of the new stadium. They tried their darndest to wreck the opener and dad gum it if they didn't reapear this week.

 

[Rats]

It is generally tough to take on Harry in this forum, but I agree with what you just wrote.

#1 - Our defense is not perfect, but look at the scoreboard. We held the Rams to fewer points than Denver did and Seattle to considerably less than the Giants, yet NY & Bronco fans are not panicing about their defenses. Berry seemed a step slow yesterday, but there was pressure being applied, just not sacks.

#2 - How can Harry call out Warner and yet not want him replaced? Does anyone think Navarre is the answer?

#3 - The o-line was not the problem yesterday. To call for their total replacement is hyper-ventilating.

#4 - The true test of Green's character is now going to be seen. If he can pick himself off of the floor after yesterdays game, I am going to support him. If he doesn't make any adjustments, then I'll throw him under the bus.

The Shark

I agree with all of this. I just didn't want to go off on Harry after the debacle we all witnessed yesterday. Were all angry. If you were at the stadium yesterday and had the high and low that happened. You are just angry. No way around it.

 

[Shane]

I agree with all of this. I just didn't want to go off on Harry after the debacle we all witnessed yesterday. Were all angry. If you were at the stadium yesterday and had the high and low that happened. You are just angry. No way around it.

There is no reason to go off on Harry. everything he said was profoundly TRUE! Especially considering he is the one guy on here who actually has the resume to back up what he says.

 

[Rats]

There is no reason to go off on Harry. everything he said was profoundly TRUE! Especially considering he is the one guy on here who actually has the resume to back up what he says.

Whatever Shane, Go off on was the wrong terminology. I mean't to say take him to task for the mis statements. It was not profoundly true, most of what he said was venting. But not profoundly true as you state.

 

[Chopper0080]

I also believe that Harry is having a bit of a hangover. Some points are valid, and some are a little extreme. The truth is that we do have one of the more TALENTED teams in the NFL. It is also true that we have had one of the most disappointing teams so far this year. But, lets not forget that it is week 3. IF this team tanks the rest of the year, THEN we need to talk about whole sale changes. BUT, until then you have to wait and see. Here are some things that this organization has to look at over the upcoming season.

1-Where does L Davis fit in on the offensive line. This team has a history of tossing away talented players because we misused them or gave up on there development. Davis is a talented player and we need to identify where he can help this team whether it is at guard or at tackle.

2-Who, with Davis, is a viable asset on the offensive line in the RUNNING game. I would consider Davis, M Brown and O Ross right now as keepers because they have had success in their careers as run blockers.

3-Is our future tied to our running game or our passing game. We have two great wide receivers but it has been proven that running the ball leads to successfull organizations. I believe that there are enough touches to go around to wide receivers on running teams and Leinart shows promise as a play-action quarterback. Our choice in a new coach (if the season tanks) really depends on our future as an offense as our weapons are on the offensive side of the ball.

4-How much do you play your future QB behind a (as of now) questionable team. I don't love the idea of starting Leinart against a tough Atlanta team but he has to get his lumps sometime and no situation is ever optimal. Harry, I love your posts but I have a hard time with your idea of holding Leinart now with an established, albeit poorly functioning, system in place in favor of blowing up the team and putting him behind a totally retooled team. Doesn't really make sense in terms of keeping him healthy.

5-Defensively, what is the reason for the inconsistancy? Is it the players or the coaching and which ends up heading out the door.

Harry is right on one statement right now and that is that these ARE the same old Cardinals. The question is that the same old Cardinals would have flopped the rest of the season and what will THESE Cardinals do? It will speak volumes about our coaching, team captains (Boldin, Edge, Wilson, Fitz, Berry), and our future. Unfortuneatly we will have to wait and see, hoping for the best, like we die-hards always do.

 

[40yearfan]

I also believe that Harry is having a bit of a hangover. Some points are valid, and some are a little extreme. The truth is that we do have one of the more TALENTED teams in the NFL. It is also true that we have had one of the most disappointing teams so far this year. But, lets not forget that it is week 3. IF this team tanks the rest of the year, THEN we need to talk about whole sale changes. BUT, until then you have to wait and see. Here are some things that this organization has to look at over the upcoming season.

1-Where does L Davis fit in on the offensive line. This team has a history of tossing away talented players because we misused them or gave up on there development. Davis is a talented player and we need to identify where he can help this team whether it is at guard or at tackle.

2-Who, with Davis, is a viable asset on the offensive line in the RUNNING game. I would consider Davis, M Brown and O Ross right now as keepers because they have had success in their careers as run blockers.

3-Is our future tied to our running game or our passing game. We have two great wide receivers but it has been proven that running the ball leads to successfull organizations. I believe that there are enough touches to go around to wide receivers on running teams and Leinart shows promise as a play-action quarterback. Our choice in a new coach (if the season tanks) really depends on our future as an offense as our weapons are on the offensive side of the ball.

4-How much do you play your future QB behind a (as of now) questionable team. I don't love the idea of starting Leinart against a tough Atlanta team but he has to get his lumps sometime and no situation is ever optimal. Harry, I love your posts but I have a hard time with your idea of holding Leinart now with an established, albeit poorly functioning, system in place in favor of blowing up the team and putting him behind a totally retooled team. Doesn't really make sense in terms of keeping him healthy.

5-Defensively, what is the reason for the inconsistancy? Is it the players or the coaching and which ends up heading out the door.

Harry is right on one statement right now and that is that these ARE the same old Cardinals. The question is that the same old Cardinals would have flopped the rest of the season and what will THESE Cardinals do? It will speak volumes about our coaching, team captains (Boldin, Edge, Wilson, Fitz, Berry), and our future. Unfortuneatly we will have to wait and see, hoping for the best, like we die-hards always do.

The voice of reason. Thank you.

 

[cardcrazy]

Sorry I cant agree with the majority of this thread.
I have faithfully watched these cards for 31 years. Yesterday, i saw a lot of good things that are not the norm. The O-line actually did some run blocking towards the end, usually we have abandon the run long before the 4th qtr. The defense held STL to 3 FG's instead of TD's. Jackson was held to less yards than Egde. The O line had very few false starts that killed drives. If Warner doesnt fumble at the end we have a 100 yd rusher in god knows how long. Yes mistakes were made but if you take away the BIGGEST mistakes (all Warner) we win this game and all you guys are singing a different tune.
All Im saying is compare this games performance to some of the miserable, no running game, no decent drives, defense gets run over, HORRIBLE coaching job, games of the recent past... then you might reconsider the word "Pathetic".