Paul Pierce on the block?

[slinslin]

There are rumors that Paul Pierce is being shopped by the Celtics.

Danny Ainge doesn't seem to be the smartest GM that is for sure, if he still loves Marion so much do you think we could make a play for Pierce?

Because of Marion's BYC we would have to involve a team like Utah and have them pick up some of our salary.

I am not sold on Pierce because his numbers got worse in both of the last 2 seasons but he is definately a notch or 2 above Marion in my opinion.

 

[fordronken]

Pierce's drop off comes from really being the only real threat on the Celtics. He's still a terrific player and probably would fit well into a team with other options.

 

[slinslin]

Marion for Pierce works pretty much straight up if Utah took White or Eisley.

Boston could maybe be interessted in Jahidi and offer Chris Mills because they need size also.

Example

Phoenix trade
Shawn Marion
Jahidi White
Casey Jacobsen

Phoenix gets
Paul Pierce

Boston trades
Paul Pierce
Chris Milles

Boston gets
Shawn Marion
Jahidi White
Ben Handlogten

Utah trades
Ben Handolgten

UTah gets
Chris Mills
Casey Jacobsen

 

[JS22]

Marion for Pierce?

Do it...Do it....DO IT.

 

[Chaplin]

How bout this?

PG Joe Johnson
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Paul Pierce
PF Amare Stoudemire
C Jake Voskuhl

Instant contender right there folks. LOL

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by Chaplin
How bout this?

PG Joe Johnson
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Paul Pierce
PF Amare Stoudemire
C Jake Voskuhl

Instant contender right there folks. LOL

No, remember? We can't win a championship without Jahidi White.

 

[slinslin]

If we unloaded Eisley using the Cavs and New Yorks future pick on the Bobcats we could probably sign a better center than Jake Voshkul on top of that.

Plus a top draft pick and a mid first round pick.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by fordronken
No, remember? We can't win a championship without Jahidi White.

I thought that was Casey Jacobsen, but not White. Wait. Doh!

 

[elindholm]

If the Suns' management somehow managed to trade Marion for Pierce, I would take back every bad thing I ever said about them.

Well, almost every bad thing. But the point is, it would be great. Paul Pierce is having a terrible season (by his standards), but I still think he's a terrific player.

Someone come up with some more scenarios! I'm excited now!

Actually, here's a thought: this summer, could the Suns use their cap space to work a straight trade for Pierce without requiring the salaries to line up? I know the literal answer is "yes," but what I'm really asking is whether there are any realistic possibilities. Straight up for Marion would work, but I wonder if the Celtics would prefer another package.

Now that they're out of Baker's deal, the Celtics could get some major cap space if they managed to move Pierce and LaFrentz. It would be sort of like the Marbury deal, in that the Celtics would give up a good player (Marbury/Pierce) in order to escape a bad contract (Hardaway/LaFrentz).

How about this? Salary figures, in millions, are for the 2004-05 season and I rounded to the nearest $100,000.

Boston gets
Shawn Marion ($11.3, 2009)
Zarko Cabarkapa ($1.3, 2007 team option)
Jahidi White ($5.9, 2005)

Phoenix gets
Paul Pierce ($12.6, 2008 player option)
Raef LaFrentz ($9.1, 2009)

LaFrentz's contract is terrible, but he is a fairly effective player when healthy and does a lot of things the Suns are looking for in a center. I'd rather have Dampier starting at $8 million per year, but not by much. It would be a shame to part with Cabarkapa, but I am starting to get uncomfortable that he's going to be injured all the time.

If Boston made this deal, their payroll would be $38 million or so, so they'd still be in a strong free-agent position. And White's contract is up in summer 2005, meaning that they'd have more money to play with then.

The Suns could happily sign their draft picks this summer, add a player with the MLE (I think the trade, plus all their picks, would put them slightly over the cap line, but I haven't done the math), and have nothing to fear from the luxury tax.

That's three new players to add to this lineup:

C - LaFrentz/Voskuhl/Lampe
PF - Stoudemire/LaFrentz/Lampe
SF - Johnson/Pierce
SG - Pierce/Vujanic/Jacobsen
PG - Barbosa/Eisley

If all three new players made the rotation, someone (Jacobsen) would be sent to the IR, since there are ten players listed above.

One question mark would be whether Johnson could handle the pressure of playing alongside Pierce. But my feeling is, if he's going to be this fragile forever, let's find out now and not waste any more time on him.

Do it do it do it! This would make me happy.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm sorry, but I am absolutely, positively, unequivocably against trading for Raef LaFrentz and his contract. No matter how good he might be for the team.

 

[slinslin]

I like mine better! :

 

[Ryanwb]

I really think we should get a jewish center

 

[elindholm]

I like mine better!

Sure, of course, because yours hoses the other teams. Why would Utah give up Handlogten, who was contributing while healthy, for Jacobsen? And I think that if Boston puts Pierce on the open market, they'll get a better offer than just Marion, which is basically all they come away with in your proposal.

I'm sorry, but I am absolutely, positively, unequivocably against trading for Raef LaFrentz and his contract.

You're right, that's a sticking point. But hey, you're the one who keeps talking about the Suns' great new financial flexibility, right? One of the ways to make that flexibility pay off is to be able to accept a bad contract in exchange for a player you really want.

And really, if the Suns are going to overpay for a mediocre center -- and admit it, in your gut, you know they are -- they could do worse than LaFrentz.

Of course this is all total speculation, but my guess is that any team who gives up Pierce is going to have to give up something pretty darn valuable. Maybe I'm being biased, but I think that my proposed deal is something that genuinely could appeal to the Celtics.

 

[slinslin]

Handlogten is just in there so Utah actually trades something away.

I am not sure they could just take Mills and Jacobsen.

Why would they not take Jacobsen? I don't like Jacobsen but he has definately shown improvements and should be attractive to some teams.


You don't want Camby but you wouldn't mind LaFrentz?

 

[Joe Mama]

Sorry to piss on everybody's parade, but Paul Pierce isn't going anywhere unless the Celtics are getting a superstar in return. If I was Bryan Colangelo I would offer Shawn Marion, two of the first-round draft picks, and Casey Jacobsen for Paul Pierce. That's still wouldn't get it done.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Why would they not take Jacobsen? I don't like Jacobsen but he has definately shown improvements and should be attractive to some teams.

Let's say I'm the Utah Jazz. The Suns call me and say, "We have a trade we want to make with the Celtics, but we can't do it without using your cap space. Can you help us out?" I say, "Well, maybe. What's in it for us?" And the Suns say, "Casey Jacobsen."

I laugh and hang up the phone.

 

[elindholm]

Sorry to piss on everybody's parade

I'm trying to imagine how you'd work out the angle.

but Paul Pierce isn't going anywhere unless the Celtics are getting a superstar in return.

You don't think they'd do it for huge cap room? Marion plus getting out from under LaFrentz's contract would be pretty enticing, wouldn't it?

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Sorry to piss on everybody's parade, but Paul Pierce isn't going anywhere unless the Celtics are getting a superstar in return. If I was Bryan Colangelo I would offer Shawn Marion, two of the first-round draft picks, and Casey Jacobsen for Paul Pierce. That's still wouldn't get it done.

Joe Mama

I don't know , Danny Ainge isn't the smartest GM it looks like. Paul Pierce is having more of a down year than Marion and already the 2nd in a row.

Danny loves the Matrix and Marion's rebounding ability would be a good asset in the East.

 

[cly2tw]

Pierce available? That's exciting? I'd do any of the following deals.

1. Marion + Barbosa + 1-2 draft picks and/or CJ or Zarko or any those combinations for Pierce.

2. Eric's trade idea but with Eisley instead of White going Celtics way, which they'd take since we accepted LaFrentz horrendous contract in return.

With option 1, we'd still be able to sign a FA or even Kobe if we dump White. but I doubt Kobe'd like to come with Amare/Pierce already on the team. With option 2, it's Eric's team subbing White for Eisley. We'll be contender the moment Amare learnt how to defend and board.

Note, there will be many suitors for Pierce if shopped, I am not sure either of the options above will be accepted, not to mention slin's proposal. I'd be willing to throw in more to make the core trade Pierce for Marion happen.

 

[George O'Brien]

I really can't see the Suns having a shot at doing anything until summer. It is simply too complicated to trade Marion under BYC and there is not enough salary of expendible players to make a difference.

This summer things are very different. Both the Suns and the Celtics would be below the salary cap, so the salaries would not have to match. At the extreme level, the Suns could move White to the Bobcats (with the $3 million bribe) and then get Pierce for draft picks straight up. This would put the Celtics at $26.2 million and could make a run at Kobe or any other free agent they wanted. The Suns could include Jacobsen and possibly Carbakapa in the deal, if that is what it would take

Even if it was just for draft picks, it would still leave the Suns under the cap (around $40.6 million) and able to sign Vujanic and low end replacement for White.

Pierce has been pretty healthy over the last three years and has carried his team in spite of a weak supporting cast. He is considered a good defender and 7.3 rebounds per game a year ago. He also gives out 5.2 assists per game this season.

He's a great player without the attitude issues that worry me about Kobe.

 

[cly2tw]

George,

what's the team after your trade goes down. I'd rather do the trade Eric proposed or my option 2, meaning trading Marion for LaFrentz minus Zarko and/or picks compared to your proposal. The reason is that Pierce/Marion/JJ would be redundant at SG/SF. Though LaFrentz is overpaid a bit more than Marion is, he fits with the idea of a high post center who can block shots that complements Amare better.

We'd have

White/LaFrentz/Lampe at C
Amare/Voskuhl/at PF
JJ/Zarko at SF
Pierce/CJ at SG
Barbosa/Vujanic/(Eisley) PG

Get the best talent with our lottery pick. We'll take off once Amare learns defense and JJ, Vujanic and Zarko get more mature within 1-2 years.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not as concerned about the trade from the Suns standpoint as from the Celtics standpoint. I am looking at it from the perspective of doing the deal this summer. In a way, the deal can be broken into two parts: Marion for LaFrentz and picks/etc. for Pierce. We can think about it this way because both teams will be under the cap.

Raef LaFrentz of two years ago would be a great pickup for the Suns. The La Frentz of last year would not. This year he has been injured a lot and has not even played since Dec. 12. On a guy with five more years on his contract, it is hard to say whether this is a good deal for the Suns. If he returns to the level he was at in Devver, the fact that he is $2 million less per year than Marion is a not a small factor. It is a gamble. Marion is healthy and La Frentz is not. I wouldn't even think about it unless he was examined and tested.

Does this deal work if La Frentz turns out to be another Googs? Maybe. Clearly the Suns do it if they think he recovers but I suspect the Celtics don't do it if THEY think he he'll recover. But could the Suns really afford to have a Googs on the roster for five more years?

This puts the Pierce deal in the perspective of a salary dump on Pierce. Clearly Marion plus a pick would not be being enough on its own. The whole process from the perspective of the Celtics would be if they hope to get a premier FA using the cap space.

Unless their goal would be to dump damaged goods.

 

[devilalum]

If LaFrenz comes with Pierce it's a lot like what the Suns did with Penny and Marbury.

The Suns wouldn't have to give up Marion to get these two.

Googs, Eisley, Barbosa and 2 picks

for

Raef and Pierce

This is almost exactly the Suns Knicks deal all over again.

It would be like the Suns traded

Penny Marbury

for

Pierce Raef

 

[F-Dog]

I really doubt that Paul Pierce is available at all.


My guess is that this rumor was started by somebody with no connections, because of the following (flawed) logic:

--Danny Ainge is stupid
--trading Paul Pierce would be stupid

Therefore, Ainge must be looking to trade Paul Pierce.

 

[elindholm]

--Danny Ainge is stupid
--trading Paul Pierce would be stupid

Therefore, Ainge must be looking to trade Paul Pierce.

--That joke was stupid.
--I thought it was funny.

Therefore, I must be stupid.

Oh well! That's the way it goes.