Pelicans @ Suns Tuesday Playoff game thread 4-26-2022 - Game 5

[82CardsGrad]

Specifically in game four there were several Suns possessions where CP3 wasn't touching the ball (a handful in the 3rd if I recall) or even looking to touch the ball. Seemed like it was an intentional strategy to "save him" for the 4th.

I don't have any inside info... However, I feel quite certain that if Monty has put CP3 out on the floor, it's not to pick daisies...

 

[Bufalay]

If Crowder makes a 3 in the first 4 minutes, the Suns will win.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton is averaging 10.7 rebounds in this series

Ayton averaged 10.2 in the regular season

As much as you would like make it this guy does this and this guy does that and 1 for 1 thing. I would be curious to see how everyone else’s rebounding numbers stack up to the regular season

Ayton is playing like Ayton but everybody just seems to have disappeared

While it counts, he had a 17 rebound game. Great game. But he can’t take those rebounds to the other three games where he rebounded below his average and allowed his direct opponent to grab two more per game than he normally averages.

25 - 9
13-9
11-17
15 - 8
64-43

Regular season:
Ayton: 10.2
Valencunius: 11.4

Series:
Ayton: 10.8
Valencunius: 16

Cmon man . . . you’re going to keep finding ways to say that’s okay or try to explain it away?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Your asking a 7 footer to defend the perimeter and while the shot is in the air run down and get position for the rebound?

Maybe for smaller faster guys year but that’s not realistic for his size

No. Try reading what I actually said again. If he’s defending on the perimeter at some point, but has already switched back to guarding the paint when the actual shot is taken that will count as “not guarding the perimeter.” If he’s on the perimeter when the shot is taken and dives into the paint in pursuit of a rebound I’ll count that as “guarding the perimeter.” You guys are arguing he doesn’t get rebounds because he’s out of position. But just because he’s out of position at one point in a possession doesn’t mean he remains out of position for the entire possession. So I’m going to see how much he’s in the paint verses on the perimeter when the shot actually goes up. I’ll do so for valencunius too. See what the comp looks like. But full disclosure, if this totally ruins watching the game, I may quit early.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Suns at -6.5 seems like a lot of points for us right now.

I was pretty shocked to see that spread too.

 

[82CardsGrad]

While it counts, he had a 17 rebound game. Great game. But he can’t take those rebounds to the other three games where he rebounded below his average and allowed his direct opponent to grab two more per game than he normally averages.

25 - 9
13-9
11-17
15 - 8
64-43

Regular season:
Ayton: 10.2
Valencunius: 11.4

Series:
Ayton: 10.8
Valencunius: 16

Cmon man . . . you’re going to keep finding ways to say that’s okay or try to explain it away?

You won't like this either... however, age & experience matters, especially in the post season. Jonas turns 30 on May 6th. Ayton is all of 23 (turns 24 at the end of July).
Jonas has now played in 52 post season games, to Ayton's 26.

Ayton has literally been the only reliable player on BOTH ends of the court. While the entire rest of the team has decided to turtle up. Yet, for some strange reason you continue to call out DA? So odd...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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You would think monty would try to milk the fact that he and Ayton have combined to go 58/76 (76%) over four games. But we go away from both of them for baffling stretches.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've seen Jonas listed at 7'2"...nonetheless, he is much thicker than Ayton and though not as athletic, Jonas is remarkably so for a man of his size.
And for the record, I DO think the rebounding discrepancies are a "problem!" A HUGE problem to be clear... I just don't put all of that problem at the feet of Ayton. In a huge amount of instances, Ayton is guarding a man away from the basket (I'm not talking about at the 3-point line here...but at or near the foul line), and no other Sun cares to take care of the weakside... That's not on Ayton. That's on Crowder, Bridges, Cam Johnson...

As far I'm concerned, Ayton is way down the list of reasons to be concerned about this series...In fact, I wouldn't put Ayton into the conversation at all.
That list of concerns is long...but Deandre ain't on it IMHO.

Jonas’ official height 6’11. So whatever you’re reading that says 7’2 is just a faulty resource for information.

And I guess I’ll see how frequently Ayton is away from the basket on defense.

And understand, I for sure don’t put the primary, or even lions share of the blame on Ayton. He’s lifted his offensive game in the series. But Jonas is his primary cover and he’s averaging 16 rebounds per game. That’s some Dennis Rodman numbers there.

 

[Finito]

Grizzlies coach got fined 15k as well

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Define "outside" and "inside."

Primarily in the paint. It’s tough to set a definitive line of demarcation. I mean, if Jonas is baseline for like a 10 footer I’m counting that as inside because it’s not like Ayton is switching out on the perimeter to guard a guard or wing which is the crux of your argument. Trust me I’m going to try to do this fairly tonight. I am legitimately interested to see what the reality of the “Ayton guards away” is. Particularly in comparison to another center who really doesn’t switch like Jonas. I don’t care about winning the argument if the data says I’m wrong.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Paul/Ayton will do their thing. The role players need to nut up. Also Monty needs to give CP some relief in the backcourt. Get someone to brick wall Alvarado off a screen.

We simply cannot lose a series to a team called the Pelicans.

Frankly I don’t know why we don’t screen in the backcourt for Paul every possession. Why make him work against that pest?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Primarily in the paint. It’s tough to set a definitive line of demarcation. I mean, if Jonas is baseline for like a 10 footer I’m counting that as inside because it’s not like Ayton is switching out on the perimeter to guard a guard or wing which is the crux of your argument. Trust me I’m going to try to do this fairly tonight. I am legitimately interested to see what the reality of the “Ayton guards away” is. Particularly in comparison to another center who really doesn’t switch like Jonas. I don’t care about winning the argument if the data says I’m wrong.

But... If DA is guarding Jonas on a 10 footer, and all other Suns players do what they've been doing all series long - which is disregard defending the weakside, so Jones/Ingram/Hayes/Nance, etc... roam free and grab the rebound, that is not on Ayton.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Does this mean we get a FT to start the game?
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Fat lotta good that does us now. We should get to cheap shot them once without penalty. Don’t know when, or where, or upon whom. But it’s coming.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You won't like this either... however, age & experience matters, especially in the post season. Jonas turns 30 on May 6th. Ayton is all of 23 (turns 24 at the end of July).
Jonas has now played in 52 post season games, to Ayton's 26.

Ayton has literally been the only reliable player on BOTH ends of the court. While the entire rest of the team has decided to turtle up. Yet, for some strange reason you continue to call out DA? So odd...

No, I called it out once. From there you and Finito decided you wanted to argue the point, so it’s called having a conversation.

And yeah, I’m sorry, After four seasons and making a freaking a run to the finals I’m not down with the youth and experience excuse any longer. He wants a max contract and we are all ready to give it to him. If anything his 23 year old legs and stamina should be killing the 30 year old less athletic guy on the glass.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But... If DA is guarding Jonas on a 10 footer, and all other Suns players do what they've been doing all series long - which is disregard defending the weakside, so Jones/Ingram/Hayes/Nance, etc... roam free and grab the rebound, that is not on Ayton.

You’re right. I’ve been consistent in saying the rebounding deficiency is a problem of the whole team (including Ayton). You’re the one arguing it’s not Ayton’s fault. But if Ayton is 10 feet away and guarding Jonas he damn well sure make sure Jonas doesn’t get that rebound, right?

You can’t make the argument that he’s failing to keep Jonas off the boards because he’s out on the perimeter because we ask him to switch and then count it as guarding the perimeter when he’s guarding Jonas which is what every single other center that plays against the Pels would be doing.

 

[Finito]

While it counts, he had a 17 rebound game. Great game. But he can’t take those rebounds to the other three games where he rebounded below his average and allowed his direct opponent to grab two more per game than he normally averages.

25 - 9
13-9
11-17
15 - 8
64-43

Regular season:
Ayton: 10.2
Valencunius: 11.4

Series:
Ayton: 10.8
Valencunius: 16

Cmon man . . . you’re going to keep finding ways to say that’s okay or try to explain it away?

Of course you can that’s how you figure averages that’s how that works.

I mean we’ve done this song and dance for years now.

 

[Finito]

But... If DA is guarding Jonas on a 10 footer, and all other Suns players do what they've been doing all series long - which is disregard defending the weakside, so Jones/Ingram/Hayes/Nance, etc... roam free and grab the rebound, that is not on Ayton.

What?!? weak side rebounding and defense are a thing noooooo

What a concept

 

[Proximo]

If Crowder makes a 3 in the first 4 minutes, the Suns will win.

Not necessarily. It would help.

The real thing to watch is if CP3 is making his jumper.

If he isn't, we are going to lose, it's really that simple

 

[Proximo]

He hasn’t shut anyone down at all

Yeah, and what player shuts anyone down? Nobody.

It's about slowing someone down.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Gettin my 420 bong rdy 2 hr countdown

Man my nerves are sky high on gm lol

Really hope suns do better at the 3 and get more fts this gm

At the very least god just dont get blown out at home....

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Vegas obviously hasn't watched us play in a while.

 

[82CardsGrad]

And yeah, I’m sorry, After four seasons and making a freaking a run to the finals I’m not down with the youth and experience excuse any longer. He wants a max contract and we are all ready to give it to him. If anything his 23 year old legs and stamina should be killing the 30 year old less athletic guy on the glass.

Based upon your thinking (youth over experience), the value of CP3 is greatly diminished then... must be why Alvarado is so effective against the old man.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You’re right. I’ve been consistent in saying the rebounding deficiency is a problem of the whole team (including Ayton). You’re the one arguing it’s not Ayton’s fault. But if Ayton is 10 feet away and guarding Jonas he damn well sure make sure Jonas doesn’t get that rebound, right?

You can’t make the argument that he’s failing to keep Jonas off the boards because he’s out on the perimeter because we ask him to switch and then count it as guarding the perimeter when he’s guarding Jonas which is what every single other center that plays against the Pels would be doing.

Totally agree that if DA is on Jonas 10 feet from the hoop, Jonas just can't be the guy grabbing the board...

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, the game hinges on the Suns rebounding and defense. Also they have to do it without sending the Pelicans on a parade to the free throw.

If this happens I think the offense takes care of itself.

 

[zett]

if

Does this mean we get a FT to start the game?
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it was reviewed, then why was it not a flagrant 2? it met all the requirements.