People Have Short Memories

[Garthshort]

People who complain about the relacement refs, only have to go back ONE YEAR and see that the so-called regular refs cost the Cardinals the playoffs, and in fact put the Super Bowl winning Giants into the playoffs. And, by the way, I've never seen the, "He gave himself up" call made before or since. But I don't watch every game (far from it). My point, there is always a lot to complain about the calls.

 

[Mulli]

I have seen the "gave himself up rule" since. Eric Decker gave himself up and they blew the whistle before he was touched just last week vs. the Texans.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the more i think about it, the more I agree.

the idea that the MNF game was the "worst call of all time" completely ignores the Seahags getting SCREWED back in 1998 i think when they played the Jets and the refs gave Vinny Testaverde a touchdown on the last play on the game... when he was tackled at the 2 yard line... or the Detroit-Steelers Turkey day game where they couldn't even get the coin flip in OT right.

these refs are awful, but the other refs have been really awful as well.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I have seen the "gave himself up rule" since. Eric Decker gave himself up and they blew the whistle before he was touched just last week vs. the Texans.

Same situation came up at the Saints-Chiefs game & the Saints were awarded the ball as a fumble



Sent from Rugbymuffin's Super Phone

 

[Mulli]

Same situation came up at the Saints-Chiefs game & the Saints were awarded the ball as a fumble



Sent from Rugbymuffin's Super Phone

Who is on first? Third base!

 

[Jetstream Green]

When I think of this team getting hosed by a ref, the Superbowl does not come to mind as much (I have no idea why, maybe because as a Cardinal fan I was giddy just to be in the Superbowl at that time, which is a poor mentality to have) as these two plays. The game in 1984 against the Redskins in Washington for the division and that crap phantom call of roughing Theisman and then the last regular season game in Zona against the Cowboys in 1998 when Rob Moore got shoved by a DB with the DB with his back clearly to the ball in the endzone. There is no conspiracy theory, it's a fact that some teams are favored and we are clearly not one of them by the refs. I still can see the video in my mind of the kid in the stands looking in disbelief as the Cowboys quickly ran off the field and the pass interference was not called.

 

[PACardsFan]

Personally, I hope the NFL doesn't concede an inch with the union. I've experienced first hand how unions create employees whose productivity over time ends up in the crapper. Let these new refs compete & learn the ropes and they'll be better than what we've seen over the years. I have to laugh listening to the morons on ESPN talk about the integrity of the game. OMG, how many times had the previous slew of officials screwed teams like the Cardinals over in the past!

 

[kerouac9]

A handful of games/calls over the course of a decade or more of games =/= ten blown/bad/phantom calls in every game. The replacement officials aren't going to be removed in favor of robots; the regular officials make mistakes, too.

But people saying that the replacement refs aren't any worse are completely deluding themselves.

1) Player safety is at risk. Darrius Heyward-Bey suffered a serious neck injury that wasn't even flagged. Lots of quarterbacks are suffering helmet-to-helmet hits that aren't called.

2) Replacement officials are getting bullied by coaches and fans. That's just the fact of the matter. These guys are literally and figuratively getting pushed around by players and hometown fans. The NFL had to send out a letter to coaches last week politely asking them to take it easy on these guys. You can tell that the officials are intimidated. Say what you will about the regular refs, but they don't get pushed around.

3) It takes forever to make a call, even an obvious one.

4) Remember last season when a coach was allowed to challenge a play even when he had no timeouts? It happened all the time, right? Oh, it didn't? Well, Jim Harbaugh made two challenges without timeouts in Sunday's tilt against Minnesota. Replacement officials have a difficult time managing the facts of the game.

 

[kerouac9]

Personally, I hope the NFL doesn't concede an inch with the union. I've experienced first hand how unions create employees whose productivity over time ends up in the crapper. Let these new refs compete & learn the ropes and they'll be better than what we've seen over the years. I have to laugh listening to the morons on ESPN talk about the integrity of the game. OMG, how many times had the previous slew of officials screwed teams like the Cardinals over in the past!

Isn't the crappiness of the replacement officials a clear indication that unions do a superior job presenting more qualified and higher-performing workers? It's not like these officials have zero experience.

 

[Mulli]

A handful of games/calls over the course of a decade or more of games =/= ten blown/bad/phantom calls in every game. The replacement officials aren't going to be removed in favor of robots; the regular officials make mistakes, too.

But people saying that the replacement refs aren't any worse are completely deluding themselves.

1) Player safety is at risk. Darrius Heyward-Bey suffered a serious neck injury that wasn't even flagged. Lots of quarterbacks are suffering helmet-to-helmet hits that aren't called.

2) Replacement officials are getting bullied by coaches and fans. That's just the fact of the matter. These guys are literally and figuratively getting pushed around by players and hometown fans. The NFL had to send out a letter to coaches last week politely asking them to take it easy on these guys. You can tell that the officials are intimidated. Say what you will about the regular refs, but they don't get pushed around.

3) It takes forever to make a call, even an obvious one.

4) Remember last season when a coach was allowed to challenge a play even when he had no timeouts? It happened all the time, right? Oh, it didn't? Well, Jim Harbaugh made two challenges without timeouts in Sunday's tilt against Minnesota. Replacement officials have a difficult time managing the facts of the game.

Well said. Check out how many more calls the home teams are getting. Tells you just about all you need to know.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Isn't the crappiness of the replacement officials a clear indication that unions do a superior job presenting more qualified and higher-performing workers? It's not like these officials have zero experience.

You may not have seen it yet, but, as I posted in the other thread, why then are the officials against hiring 3 crews of 7 official in reserve to replace underperforming officials?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

A handful of games/calls over the course of a decade or more of games =/= ten blown/bad/phantom calls in every game. The replacement officials aren't going to be removed in favor of robots; the regular officials make mistakes, too.

But people saying that the replacement refs aren't any worse are completely deluding themselves.

1) Player safety is at risk. Darrius Heyward-Bey suffered a serious neck injury that wasn't even flagged. Lots of quarterbacks are suffering helmet-to-helmet hits that aren't called.

2) Replacement officials are getting bullied by coaches and fans. That's just the fact of the matter. These guys are literally and figuratively getting pushed around by players and hometown fans. The NFL had to send out a letter to coaches last week politely asking them to take it easy on these guys. You can tell that the officials are intimidated. Say what you will about the regular refs, but they don't get pushed around.

3) It takes forever to make a call, even an obvious one.

4) Remember last season when a coach was allowed to challenge a play even when he had no timeouts? It happened all the time, right? Oh, it didn't? Well, Jim Harbaugh made two challenges without timeouts in Sunday's tilt against Minnesota. Replacement officials have a difficult time managing the facts of the game.

K9, voice of reason

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Personally, I hope the NFL doesn't concede an inch with the union. I've experienced first hand how unions create employees whose productivity over time ends up in the crapper. Let these new refs compete & learn the ropes and they'll be better than what we've seen over the years. I have to laugh listening to the morons on ESPN talk about the integrity of the game. OMG, how many times had the previous slew of officials screwed teams like the Cardinals over in the past!

+1.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

A handful of games/calls over the course of a decade or more of games =/= ten blown/bad/phantom calls in every game. The replacement officials aren't going to be removed in favor of robots; the regular officials make mistakes, too.

But people saying that the replacement refs aren't any worse are completely deluding themselves.

1) Player safety is at risk. Darrius Heyward-Bey suffered a serious neck injury that wasn't even flagged. Lots of quarterbacks are suffering helmet-to-helmet hits that aren't called.

2) Replacement officials are getting bullied by coaches and fans. That's just the fact of the matter. These guys are literally and figuratively getting pushed around by players and hometown fans. The NFL had to send out a letter to coaches last week politely asking them to take it easy on these guys. You can tell that the officials are intimidated. Say what you will about the regular refs, but they don't get pushed around.

3) It takes forever to make a call, even an obvious one.

4) Remember last season when a coach was allowed to challenge a play even when he had no timeouts? It happened all the time, right? Oh, it didn't? Well, Jim Harbaugh made two challenges without timeouts in Sunday's tilt against Minnesota. Replacement officials have a difficult time managing the facts of the game.

Great points K9.

Your second point ? I want to see what happens in regard to that situation when the "real" refs come back. I think the weekly whine fest that has develop this year is going to carry over.

 

[BigRedRage]

Isn't the crappiness of the replacement officials a clear indication that unions do a superior job presenting more qualified and higher-performing workers? It's not like these officials have zero experience.

They have VERY little experience vs the union refs. Apples to oranges. Your taking guys who have only officiated 7v7 leagues and throwing them to the wolves. With proper training and experience they would be fine. The "union" label is not what made them refs its training and experience that made them refs.

Union doesnt = garbage but its not the sole reason that the real refs are less crappy than these ones.

 

[crisper57]

I have seen the "gave himself up rule" since. Eric Decker gave himself up and they blew the whistle before he was touched just last week vs. the Texans.

That's because there was a rule change last year. Now it is an actual ruling that can be called. Kinda like the tuck rule. They changed the rules in the offseason to accommodate a blown call the previous year.

 

[Mulli]

That's because there was a rule change last year. Now it is an actual ruling that can be called. Kinda like the tuck rule. They changed the rules in the offseason to accommodate a blown call the previous year.

I kinda figured. Wasn't sure.

 

[Duckjake]

Player safety is at risk. Darrius Heyward-Bey suffered a serious neck injury that wasn't even flagged. Lots of quarterbacks are suffering helmet-to-helmet hits that aren't called.

That's on the players not the refs. The NFLPA wants rules to protect the players then as soon as they feel they can get away with breaking the rules the players start risking player safety. But then James Harrison has shown us, while playing under the union refs, where some players really stand on the issue of player safety.

It could also be said that both the coaches and players are showing a lack of integrity by taking advantage of the referees.

 

[crisper57]

That's on the players not the refs. The NFLPA wants rules to protect the players then as soon as they feel they can get away with breaking the rules the players start risking player safety. But then James Harrison has shown us, while playing under the union refs, where some players really stand on the issue of player safety.

It could also be said that both the coaches and players are showing a lack of integrity by taking advantage of the referees.

I would add: Would the threat of a 15 yard penalty really have prevented that hit? Losing $50K sure wasn't enough of a deterrent.

 

[kerouac9]

They have VERY little experience vs the union refs. Apples to oranges. Your taking guys who have only officiated 7v7 leagues and throwing them to the wolves. With proper training and experience they would be fine. The "union" label is not what made them refs its training and experience that made them refs.

Union doesnt = garbage but its not the sole reason that the real refs are less crappy than these ones.

Hogwash. The NFL isn't hiring guys off a forklift. These guys obviously had enough experience to be officiating games in their old leagues. There are plenty of high school/junior college/Div III/Lingerie football/Arena Football/UFL officials who have a decade of experience calling games at lower levels.

They are bad officials because they don't understand the rulebook, yes, but they're also bad officials because they haven't shown themselves to be adequate enough at their current jobs to move up the ladder into Div I NCAA football.

Unions have responsibilities to keep their workforce trained and educated. Obviously, some unions are better at this than others (and blue-collar unions have historically been very bad), but the gap between the real officials and the guys we have now is pretty glaring.

You may not have seen it yet, but, as I posted in the other thread, why then are the officials against hiring 3 crews of 7 official in reserve to replace underperforming officials?

Because that's part of the mandate for the union--to protect the employment of their current membership. They also have a mandate to protect the professionalism of their ranks, but it's secondary the one to protect their members.

 

[kerouac9]

That's on the players not the refs. The NFLPA wants rules to protect the players then as soon as they feel they can get away with breaking the rules the players start risking player safety. But then James Harrison has shown us, while playing under the union refs, where some players really stand on the issue of player safety.

It could also be said that both the coaches and players are showing a lack of integrity by taking advantage of the referees.

There is no threat of ejection from these officials. Matt Schaub had a piece of his ear torn off by Joe Mays (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ion-justified-after-hit-tore-matt-schaubs-ear). Tony Romo got rocked by a helmet-to-helmet hit that wasn't even flagged http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...met_to_helmet_hit_on_bucs_sack_video/11790223). This isn't one or two players with a history of malfeasance.

The NFL and replacement officials have created an atmosphere where players and coaches are unaccountable and are bullying officials.

 

[earthsci]

You may not have seen it yet, but, as I posted in the other thread, why then are the officials against hiring 3 crews of 7 official in reserve to replace underperforming officials?

Because that's part of the mandate for the union--to protect the employment of their current membership. They also have a mandate to protect the professionalism of their ranks, but it's secondary the one to protect their members.

The Refs Union conceded to this yesterday.

NFL reaches agreement with refs union on backup crews

The NFL and NFL Referees Association have reached an agreement on the issue of backup crews, reports NFL.com...link

 

[kerouac9]

The Refs Union conceded to this yesterday.

NFL reaches agreement with refs union on backup crews

The NFL and NFL Referees Association have reached an agreement on the issue of backup crews, reports NFL.com...link

Interesting follow-up to that report: http://tracking.si.com/2012/09/26/nfl-and-nflra-reach-agreement/

Goodell has wanted the power to “bench” officials who underperform or are downgraded during the season. The NFLRA contends the league already has that ability because there are always between one and four crews that sit home each week and would be more qualified to substitute in such a scenario.

 

[Duckjake]

There is no threat of ejection from these officials. Matt Schaub had a piece of his ear torn off by Joe Mays (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ion-justified-after-hit-tore-matt-schaubs-ear). Tony Romo got rocked by a helmet-to-helmet hit that wasn't even flagged http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...met_to_helmet_hit_on_bucs_sack_video/11790223). This isn't one or two players with a history of malfeasance.

The NFL and replacement officials have created an atmosphere where players and coaches are unaccountable and are bullying officials.

Again that is on the players and coaches. Shows they are a bunch of undisciplined children who must have constant strict supervision or they'll start getting out of hand.

But then I guess that's human nature. If the IRS stopped all audits for the next 10 years I would imagine 1000s of people would start cheating on their taxes. And of course people would say it was the IRS' fault for not doing audits of tax returns.

 

[kerouac9]

Again that is on the players and coaches. Shows they are a bunch of undisciplined children who must have constant strict supervision or they'll start getting out of hand.

But then I guess that's human nature. If the IRS stopped all audits for the next 10 years I would imagine 1000s of people would start cheating on their taxes. And of course people would say it was the IRS' fault for not doing audits of tax returns.

You have rules because players can't be trusted to act like adults. They're not incentivized to, either. The League doesn't give out a "softest hitter" award.

If there's no carrot, and there's no stick, how do you expect the players to police themselves? They can police each other, but that's why we see so much chippiness in games these days.