Per John Gambadora Suns offer Dragic contract

[Chaplin]

Brooks was shooting 34% on the season. His efficiency was as bad as possible, I think we all know he was not a competent or willing defender... and really, besides score what does Brooks do? And he was TERRIBLE at scoring that year.

Yes, he was playing worse than Dragic. I dont need glasses of any shade to realize that. Some people got so low on Dragic that ANYONE was better, but Brooks, by every measure, was worse.

Dragic got screwed by the disaster of a 2nd unit he was stuck playing with. He was the "engine" of a car with square tires and a drunk driver.

Not to get into this ridiculous argument again, but at the time, Brooks wasn't simply a young player who never had a breakout season. Brooks was. At the very least they were both playing equally bad, but Brooks was thought to have more potential of breaking out of his funk because he didn't always play like that. He played like a bonfide star for an entire season.

 

[Phrazbit]

And Dragic had the worst +/- in the entire league. He played terrible. I am not sure what he was shooting but it couldn't have been much better than Brooks at the time.

Yeah, Dragic's 2 lineups that he shared court time the most with featured Warrick AND Childress, he also had to contend with Turkeyglue's delusions of being a point forward.

Dragic's struggles were a result of the garbage he was stuck sharing PT with.

And yet he STILL posted a better on-court/off-court rating (-6.5) than BROOKS who had a -9.7.

And he was shooting 42%... a solid 8% higher than Brooks.

Yes, Brooks was worse than Dragic at the time of the trade, substantially worse.

 

[sunsfan88]

If the Suns get Gordon they'll be flirting with the cap next year even if they amnesty Childress. They would be able to offer a more than the MLE though.

That is assuming they sign no more deals, which seems unlikely.

Even if the Suns get Gordon, they will still have enough cap space next summer to offer one max contract.

Phoenix will almost certainly amnesty Childress next summer or maybe even this summer and then Warrick and Telfair are both expirings.

 

[SunsTzu]

Even if the Suns get Gordon, they will still have enough cap space next summer to offer one max contract.

Phoenix will almost certainly amnesty Childress next summer or maybe even this summer and then Warrick and Telfair are both expirings.

Even without those 3 players they will not have max money next year if they sign Gordon and keep the rest of the roster.

2013-2014 approx Salary

Gortat = 7.7mil
Frye = 6.4mil
Dudley = 4.2mil
Morris = 2.0mil
Marshall = 1.8mil
Gordon = 13.5mil
Beasley = 6mil
Dragic = 7.5mil

Then add 4 minimum cap holds that total about 2mil and the Suns will be looking at 51.1mil out of a 58mil cap. This is assuming they only sign 1 year contracts the rest of the offseason.

Only way they can get max cap space next year if Gordon is on the roster is if they trade players without getting any salary back(including them in Gordon S&T would work), they stretch some of the players they just signed, or some combination of the 2.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Even without those 3 players they will not have max money next year if they sign Gordon and keep the rest of the roster.

2013-2014 approx Salary

Gortat = 7.7mil
Frye = 6.4mil
Dudley = 4.2mil
Morris = 2.0mil
Marshall = 1.8mil
Gordon = 13.5mil
Beasley = 6mil
Dragic = 7.5mil

Then add 4 minimum cap holds that total about 2mil and the Suns will be looking at 51.1mil out of a 58mil cap. This is assuming they only sign 1 year contracts the rest of the offseason.

Only way they can get max cap space next year if Gordon is on the roster is if they trade players without getting any salary back(including them in Gordon S&T would work), they stretch some of the players they just signed, or some combination of the 2.

If they give up a player or two in a s&t for Gordon, it could actually help.

 

[Griffin]

Dragic got a $30M/4-year deal from the Suns, and now Lin gets a $25M/3-year offer sheet from Houston that NY will almost certainly match. Dragic got his money based on 28 starts last year. Lin, based on 25. Lin is three years younger and will make $8.3M/year. Dragic will make $7.5M/year but has a fourth-year player option and an additional $1M/year if he can make the all-star team.

Their stats in those starts are very similar:

	G	MPG	PPG	APG	RPG	SPG	FG%	3FG%	$		$/year	age

Dragic	28	36.5	18.0	8.4	3.5	1.8	0.490	0.370	$30M/4y		$7.5M	26
Lin	25	34.0	18.2	7.7	3.7	2.0	0.445	0.343	$25M/3y		$8.3M	23

It will be really interesting to see if either player will live up to his contract.

 

[95pro]

Dragic got a $30M/4-year deal from the Suns, and now Lin gets a $25M/3-year offer sheet from Houston that NY will almost certainly match. Dragic got his money based on 28 starts last year. Lin, based on 25. Lin is three years younger and will make $8.3M/year. Dragic will make $7.5M/year but has a fourth-year player option and an additional $1M/year if he can make the all-star team.

Their stats in those starts are very similar:

	G	MPG	PPG	APG	RPG	SPG	FG%	3FG%	$		$/year	age

Dragic	28	36.5	18.0	8.4	3.5	1.8	0.490	0.370	$30M/4y		$7.5M	26
Lin	25	34.0	18.2	7.7	3.7	2.0	0.445	0.343	$25M/3y		$8.3M	23

It will be really interesting to see if either player will live up to his contract.

What did other starting pg's with that type of yearly salary put up last year?

 

[SirStefan32]

Dragic got a $30M/4-year deal from the Suns, and now Lin gets a $25M/3-year offer sheet from Houston that NY will almost certainly match. Dragic got his money based on 28 starts last year. Lin, based on 25. Lin is three years younger and will make $8.3M/year. Dragic will make $7.5M/year but has a fourth-year player option and an additional $1M/year if he can make the all-star team.

Their stats in those starts are very similar:

	G	MPG	PPG	APG	RPG	SPG	FG%	3FG%	$		$/year	age

Dragic	28	36.5	18.0	8.4	3.5	1.8	0.490	0.370	$30M/4y		$7.5M	26
Lin	25	34.0	18.2	7.7	3.7	2.0	0.445	0.343	$25M/3y		$8.3M	23

It will be really interesting to see if either player will live up to his contract.

I think the biggest difference is that Dragic is a much better defender. I like both of them, but if I were to pick one, I'd go with Dragic based on his defense.

 

[Phrazbit]

Why havnt we had him sign the offer sheet yet?

I'd be worried that if we wait too long and Houston has this Dwight trade leave them without a PG they might change their minds about matching. They didnt rescind the qualifying offer did they?

 

[mojorizen7]

I only got to see Lin in action for 2 games last season and he was impressive on the offensive end for sure...but i like Dragic as a guy who will give you more of a complete game on both ends. I also think Goran is a bit more hungry than Lin to prove his worth as a starter and a leader.

To be honest i was surprised that the Suns didn't pursue Lin like flies on ****
....being that he's a player that would seem to fit the basketball culture here.

 

[Mainstreet]

To be honest i was surprised that the Suns didn't pursue Lin like flies on ****
....being that he's a player that would seem to fit the basketball culture here.

I think the Suns realized the Knicks would match no matter what. If it were another team the Suns might have pursued him hard. Besides I think the Suns wanted to correct their error in letting Dragic go.

 

[Chaplin]

Why havnt we had him sign the offer sheet yet?

I'd be worried that if we wait too long and Houston has this Dwight trade leave them without a PG they might change their minds about matching. They didnt rescind the qualifying offer did they?

Dragic is unrestricted. There is no offer sheet.

 

[Covert Rain]

I will take the better defender in this case. I just hope Dragic doesn't have a relapse of "wallfloweritis".

 

[Phrazbit]

Dragic is unrestricted. There is no offer sheet.

He was restricted. Thats why I asked if Houston officially withdrew their one year qualifying offer.

 

[Phrazbit]

I will take the better defender in this case. I just hope Dragic doesn't have a relapse of "wallfloweritis".

As long as we dont force him to play 80% of his minutes with Warrick, Childress and a reacquired Turkeysoup, then he should be fine.

 

[SunsTzu]

Why havnt we had him sign the offer sheet yet?

I'd be worried that if we wait too long and Houston has this Dwight trade leave them without a PG they might change their minds about matching. They didnt rescind the qualifying offer did they?

As has been mentioned Dragic is UFA so there is no offer sheet and Houston cannot match.

The reason Dragic and Beasley have not officially signed yet is because the Suns have a lot of their money tied up in Gordon as well as Robin's cap hold. How they'll fit the players they've agreed to sign will depend on whether or not Gordon is matched.

 

[Covert Rain]

As long as we dont force him to play 80% of his minutes with Warrick, Childress and a reacquired Turkeysoup, then he should be fine.

I don't think that had anything to do with his last stint with the Suns. Even when he was on the court with starters he looked like a deer in headlights. He completely regressed.

 

[SunsTzu]

He was restricted. Thats why I asked if Houston officially withdrew their one year qualifying offer.

No he was not restricted. As a 2nd round pick his rookie deal isn't the same as what first round picks get. Usually 2nd round picks get a 2 year deal and the team can use the Gilbert Arenas provision to match offers after the 2nd year, but Dragic's contract was 3 years. Houston retains full Bird rights instead of early Bird rights(doesn't really matter given their cap situation) but they had no right to match.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think that had anything to do with during his last stint with the Suns. Even when he was on the court with starters he looked like a deer in headlights. He completely regressed.

I think it had a ton to do with it. He played the majority of his minutes with those scrubs and was in an impossible situation. I dont doubt that it eroded his confidence. As soon as he got to Houston, and was inserted into lineups that didnt primarily feature piles of excrement, he looked pretty good again.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think it had a ton to do with it. He played the majority of his minutes with those scrubs and was in an impossible situation. I dont doubt that it eroded his confidence. As soon as he got to Houston, and was inserted into lineups that didnt primarily feature piles of excrement, he looked pretty good again.

He was missing open shots and chucking up ill advised 3's. He was turning the ball over on drives and missing layups. He seemed completely lost on the floor. Sorry...that has nothing to do with who he was on the court with.

I think he wasn't mentally mature IMO. Remember his best season came the previous season when the Suns had zero expectations of him. His job was to spell Nash without turning the ball over. After a great run, the Suns had high expectations for him the following season and were practically crowing him the heir apparent to Nash. Personally I think he buckled under the pressure.

The reason he flourished in Houston was because all the pressure was off again. Houston was not expected to do anything and he was backing up Lowry. It wasn't until Lowry got sick that he was inserted. With the pressure off he flourished again.

Hopefully he has had time to mature because IMO it was all mental with this kid. We all know what kind of talent he has.

 

[elindholm]

I think it had a ton to do with it. He played the majority of his minutes with those scrubs and was in an impossible situation. I dont doubt that it eroded his confidence. As soon as he got to Houston, and was inserted into lineups that didnt primarily feature piles of excrement, he looked pretty good again.

Well then we're screwed, because what kind of lineup do you think he's going to be playing with in Phoenix this coming season?

 

[Phrazbit]

Well then we're screwed, because what kind of lineup do you think he's going to be playing with in Phoenix this coming season?

As bad as our lineup is going to be, its not as bad as that trash second unit was. Childress and Warrick barley saw the court last year, and Beasley figures to eat up a huge chunk of their opportunities.

He also wont have Hedo and his delusions of being a point forward to fight over the ball with.

 

[mojorizen7]

Well then we're screwed, because what kind of lineup do you think he's going to be playing with in Phoenix this coming season?

Where would you put the over/under for team FG % next season?


Last seasons team shot .458%

 

[Phrazbit]

Where would you put the over/under for team FG % next season?


Last seasons team shot .458%

Frye shot 35% last year when Nash wasnt in the game.

Gortat went from 57% to 47%.

Dudley went from 50% to 41%

Didnt bother to check the rest... but yikes.

Nash is unreal.

I dont think they will shoot quite that terribly though because while Goran is a big drop off from Nash, he is a big big upgrade from Ronnie Price and Telfair, who didnt show competence until the last month.

 

[Griffin]

Intersecting tidbit about Dragic's proposed contract. He will reportedly have an incentive of $1M each season he makes the all-star team. Now, because he has never made the all-star team before, this would be classified as an unlikely incentive, which doesn't count against the cap, except in the first year of the contract. In the first year, both likely and unlikely incentives count, so Dragic's cap hit will actually be $8.5M this season, not $7.5M. Of course this may not make much difference now that Gordon is going back to NO leaving the Suns more cap space.

Also, should Dragic make the all-star team this season, the incentive will probably be reclassified as likely for the 2013/14 season, and Dragic would continue to count as $8.5M against the cap.