Per Woj - Suns waiving Rivers

[overseascardfan]

Who was moveable. Chandler? No. No one was taking his salary.
Rivers. Come on. Was anyone going to trade anything for Rivers. He was an expiring, which is what we wanted, his expiring contract. We have that. We just don't have him. Fine.

He's was an expiring contract, so any team trading for him wouldn't have been on the hook beyond this season. I believe their are teams that are questioning PHX's moves, the MEM GM mentioned he was confused as to why PHX needed a third team in their deal with WAS when they could have just simply traded WAS straight up. Problem was PHX was asking for too much in trades and thus no one was biting. They wanted Josh Hart from LA for Ariza and LA said no, who knows what PHX was looking for in a Chandler deal but other GM's knew PHX was desperate to get rid of Chandler and waited for the inevitable buyout, a savvy GM probably could have gotten a second round pick but apparently PHX is no longer interested in acquiring picks.

 

[Mainstreet]

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I guess the league doesn't understand why. Addition by subtraction. Now the Suns have won four in a row.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sorry, maybe im missing something. Where is Rivers getting $5 mil from or are you speaking of someone else?

Also, salaries are prorated. Rivers has already been paid for x (I can do the math if you need) days of the season from the Wizards. Ariza has been paid x days of the season from the Suns. Basically, the Suns owe Rivers around $8 mil.

Add whatever this buyout would be (according to that report), which is odd since he is on waivers until tomorrow at 5PM ET. Perhaps there is some incentive not reported he is waiving? Plus whatever they already paid Ariza, plus what they owe Oubre the rest of the season.

Rivers got $5 million from the Grizzlies. It's not official but it is, especially with the cash back to the Suns

Yes salaries are pro rated so about 37% of Ariza's and Rivers salary was paid before Sarver started saving.

The point of this is Sarver is saving about 20% after this buyout trade. That is why it didn't matter if it was Brooks or Oubre or why it had to be completed RIGHT now

Just like I said day of. It's like I do financial and risk analytics for a living or something

 

[Chris_Sanders]

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Lol because it's cheaper to buy them out

Chandler saved the Suns 2.1 million

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/tyson-chandler-buyout/

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sarver saves 5-6 million buying out guys and the media is like...but why

 

[Mainstreet]

Sarver saves 5-6 million buying out guys and the media is like...but why

It's more than money though. Chandler and Ariza wanted out. I think this is why the team is starting to turn it around.

Oubre was a very nice addition to the team.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

We absolutely are playing better but that wasn't the motivator here.

It was about the timing. When you do buyouts you are saving that percentage going forward.

So if you tell an owner / financial group I can save you 10-20 % going forward the response is always what is the risk to benefit. These are the analytics that any company is founded on.

So these are two players that the media see as assets but the value of the assets were weighed against the savings and neither were deemed more valuable than their replacement + savings

 

[Chaplin]

We absolutely are playing better but that wasn't the motivator here.

It was about the timing. When you do buyouts you are saving that percentage going forward.

So if you tell an owner / financial group I can save you 10-20 % going forward the response is always what is the risk to benefit. These are the analytics that any company is founded on.

So these are two players that the media see as assets but the value of the assets were weighed against the savings and neither were deemed more valuable than their replacement + savings

There were many motivators. How you can say the play of the team wasn’t a factor is beyond me. It’s obvious that Tyson was absolutely useless for us and Ariza seems to have been more of a detriment than a help on the court, so how can that NOT be a motivator??

 

[WildBB]

It's so refreshing to see the youngsters balling out with a few strategic vets thrown in now. Out with the old farts in with the fresh n hungry. I think Bridges, Jackson and Oubre on the floor together will give teams fits now.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's so refreshing to see the youngsters balling out with a few strategic vets thrown in now. Out with the old farts in with the fresh n hungry. I think Bridges, Jackson and Oubre on the floor together will give teams fits now.

Yup long hungry athletic kids with some skills and motivation. Games will be ugly but beautiful to us. This is a whole new era of suns basketball the likes of which we’ve not been familiar. In a good way. Love it. 4 in a row feels good.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Rivers got $5 million from the Grizzlies. It's not official but it is, especially with the cash back to the Suns

Yes salaries are pro rated so about 37% of Ariza's and Rivers salary was paid before Sarver started saving.

The point of this is Sarver is saving about 20% after this buyout trade. That is why it didn't matter if it was Brooks or Oubre or why it had to be completed RIGHT now

Just like I said day of. It's like I do financial and risk analytics for a living or something

I haven't read the article, but if he's agreeing with the Grizzlies, the most they can offer is $3.3 mil

The Grizzlies used their entire MLE on an offer sheet for Kyle Anderson, which he signed. They do have the bi-annual exception left, but that makes out at $3.3 mil.

That's the part that doesn't add up to me, but perhaps I am missing something. Either way, Rivers clears waivers to.orrow afternoon, so should be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

There were many motivators. How you can say the play of the team wasn’t a factor is beyond me. It’s obvious that Tyson was absolutely useless for us and Ariza seems to have been more of a detriment than a help on the court, so how can that NOT be a motivator??

As I already said, timing.

In each instance there is an inexplicable deadline.

This timing is what the media struggles with. Why just buyout these pieces that external people see as valuable with little in return?

And you can point to me play time and I will tell you that the organization controlled play time.

So if the organization controls play time, then why make these moves so early and with little to show for it? Please don't tell me Oubre because they didn't want Oubre.

The sole remaining motivation is money.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I haven't read the article, but if he's agreeing with the Grizzlies, the most they can offer is $3.3 mil

The Grizzlies used their entire MLE on an offer sheet for Kyle Anderson, which he signed. They do have the bi-annual exception left, but that makes out at $3.3 mil.

That's the part that doesn't add up to me, but perhaps I am missing something. Either way, Rivers clears waivers to.orrow afternoon, so should be interesting to see what happens.

Did some more digging and a player has to clear waivers to be bought out.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/9/1...market-explained-how-do-contract-buyouts-work

 

[SirStefan32]

So, let's say that what you are saying is true, Chris. What's wrong with saving some money if it's not hurting the team?

I am trying to remember the last expiring contract that fetched any value beyond a second-round pick, and I can't come up with one single example.If someone is gonna sit on the bench, and you can't get anything for that player, what's the problem with saving some money?

 

[Chaplin]

As I already said, timing.

In each instance there is an inexplicable deadline.

This timing is what the media struggles with. Why just buyout these pieces that external people see as valuable with little in return?

And you can point to me play time and I will tell you that the organization controlled play time.

So if the organization controls play time, then why make these moves so early and with little to show for it? Please don't tell me Oubre because they didn't want Oubre.

The sole remaining motivation is money.

Please show me these external people that wanted Tyson Chandler and Austin Rivers. And we’re willing to trade for them. Lakers wanted Tyson but they didn’t want to trade for him.

 

[Evil Ash]

As I already said, timing.

In each instance there is an inexplicable deadline.

This timing is what the media struggles with. Why just buyout these pieces that external people see as valuable with little in return?

And you can point to me play time and I will tell you that the organization controlled play time.

So if the organization controls play time, then why make these moves so early and with little to show for it? Please don't tell me Oubre because they didn't want Oubre.

The sole remaining motivation is money.

If it was solely money then the Suns would've traded with the Lakers for KCP and a 2nd as KCP would've cost even less money even with a buyout. His salary was just within the range needed to match salaries. I'm not saying money wasn't a factor but I don't think it was the SOLE factor.

The "they traded pieces that had a high value" mentality is from the years where expiring deals had value. They really don't anymore. Control is a major factor in trades and most teams aren't really going all in any more. Just as an example, they tried to trade Chandler for the past year and a half and there were zero takers. Teams like those vets on small deals

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Did some more digging and a player has to clear waivers to be bought out.

Right, teams have to option to claim the contract via waivers. If nobody does, the buyout takes place. That was a piece I didn't realize the other day

However, the Grizzlies can't even offer $5 mil, as they don't have a way to do so. Granted the difference between $5 mil and $3.3 mil isn't that far, but that figure caught me off guard. Also saw a report from a Memohis paper that they had no interest in Rivers.

Don't have a sub to the athletic, so can't read the article.

 

[leclerc]

Stronso, with that avatar you must post more! Also miss seeing that Kansas beauty/actress. Can't remember her name.

On topic: I am so glad we're not bringing in another nutty hero baller in Rivers. Melton is a rookie and he's doing pretty good overall. I especially like his defense. His 3 point shot is good enough. Him and Okobo (where's he disappeared to?) have a chance to work hard on their games and get some serious minutes here.

 

[Hoop Head]

On topic: I am so glad we're not bringing in another nutty hero baller in Rivers. Melton is a rookie and he's doing pretty good overall. I especially like his defense. His 3 point shot is good enough. Him and Okobo (where's he disappeared to?) have a chance to work hard on their games and get some serious minutes here.

Okobo is with the G-League team. He's been there since Melton was called up. They're keeping one down while the other is up. I like the way they've handled that. Better to see 30 minutes in the G-League than hope for garbage minutes to see time on the main roster. Koko isn't playing both in the same game so it's no loss.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As I already said, timing.

In each instance there is an inexplicable deadline.

This timing is what the media struggles with. Why just buyout these pieces that external people see as valuable with little in return?

And you can point to me play time and I will tell you that the organization controlled play time.

So if the organization controls play time, then why make these moves so early and with little to show for it? Please don't tell me Oubre because they didn't want Oubre.

The sole remaining motivation is money.

Chris. I cannot see how you don’t get this, none saw these pieces as valuable enough to pay or trade for them. They are glad to pick them up cheap but that is all. We wanted their cap space this summer and their presence on the team was a distraction.

 

[slinslin]

So he was due to make $12 million. He got $5 million for his new contract. Again there has to be some motivation for both sides to do it so lets say this ends up with Rivers getting a max of $13 million out of the buyout so anything over that goes back to the owner.

Buyout was probably in the 8-10 million range.

Combine that with the 3.2 million for Oubre this is a net savings of around 3 to 4 million dollars for Sarver

The motivation for the Suns is to not have Austin Rivers, it is simple.

 

[Phrazbit]

Something a lot of people, and even high profile talking heads, don't account for is that expiring contracts only have trade value (for the team possessing them) if they're willing to take on long term money.

Could we have gotten something of value for Chandler or Rivers? Yeah, probably... but that "value" would have also come with a year to year contract rate similar to what those guys were making. So, if that contract rate carries beyond this season, then that player or players need to be move valuable than the massive cap space dumping them or letting them expire would yield.

I have no clue if we'll land anything of significance with the gobs of cap space we are projected to have... but I think I'd rather that space than the disposable, overpaid, flotsam that other clubs would have been looking to eject (along with a really late first if we're lucky).

 

[Chris_Sanders]

There were many motivators. How you can say the play of the team wasn’t a factor is beyond me. It’s obvious that Tyson was absolutely useless for us and Ariza seems to have been more of a detriment than a help on the court, so how can that NOT be a motivator??

I have already gone over this. I don't have the inclination to repeat myself over and over anymore

 

[Chaplin]

I have already gone over this. I don't have the inclination to repeat myself over and over anymore

Then you need to figure out how to express yourself better because what you're doing isn't working. I think you have a very valid and interesting point, it's just getting lost in translation a little bit.