Pete Prisco gives the Cards draft a C+

[Mainstreet]

It's simple to me.... They are knocking us for not drafting O-Line in the first round. As I have said, Floyd is an awesome....stupendous.....wonderfully talented....Luxury.

Knowing that the O-Line is the area that needs the most attention, they expected us to to pick the most talented O-Lineman that could immediately impact our horribly ineffiecient O-Line. Then pick up some developmental WR's.

Even though we made superb day 3 picks, those types of players are expected to take some time to develop. Therefore, they cannot make an impact as quickly as we need.

I'm thinking the Cardinals think Floyd would have more immediate impact than a rookie offensive lineman. If he plays to expectations, he is not a luxury as some might think as he can stretch the defense. The Cardinals lacked this type threat on their roster. I do not understand why you keep referring to the filling of a need as a luxury.

 

[DoTheDew]

Possibly, but it's more likely they put an extra-emphasis on defense this year, since that's where they needed the most help. The Steelers are another example. Did they spend three early-round picks in the last two years on O-linemen because they didn't place a similar value to any available skill-position players? Or did they get sick of seeing their franchise QB get killed every week and decide to do something about it?

Pure BPA or need are both idiotic draft philosophies. Getting a player who you believe has a place on your roster and whom you believe deserves to go around where you are drafting or higher is the only good draft philosophy. In the event that no one that meets that criteria is there when you're on the clock, you trade down (so long is the deal isn't completely lopsided against you) or you trade up if you see the perfect player for your situation sitting on the board sliding lower then where he should be but probably still out of your reach. Never draft a player significantly early and never draft a player who you can't use. Steelers and Patriots picks were both BPA (or at least deserved to go by that pick or earlier) and need where they took them.

So were all of our picks in the first 4 rounds IMO.

Rounds 5-7 it really doesn't matter as much. You're chances of finding a quality player would be about as high if you took a dart and threw it at your draft board and picked whoever it hit probably at that point.

 

[DoTheDew]

I love the optimism.... I just don't see how adding a #2 WR will make Larry exponentially MORE productive than he has been. I love his talent, just think it won't help Kolb or Skelton keep their uniforms from getting dirty.

We will see how it works out.

The question is, would Kolb have gotten the ball off faster if he trusted his #2 WR to make the play/if his #2 WR was getting opened more consistently? With a player like Floyd (just like Fitz) he's "always" open due to his good hands and superior leaping ability.

Kurt Warner didn't really have "time to throw" here. It was rare that we'd have plays where he hung out in the pocket for 5-10 seconds. What happened with him and on most good passing offenses in the league today is that he got the ball off quickly and the WRs made the play.

When the WRs can't be counted on to get open/run their routes/catch the ball, the QB has no option but to take the sack. Would you rather he throw into coverage and allow a pick?

I'm not saying our OL doesn't still suck, just that it wasn't actually that good in the Kurt Warner days yet our sack count was much lower IMO because of Kurt Warner, Anquan Boldin and Steve Breaston being much better then Kolb/Doucet/Roberts.

Gandy/Wells/Sendlein/Lutui/Brown honestly isn't a very good line either. Gandy was on the verge of being out of the league before he came to us. Levi and Sendlein have probably gotten better rather then worse since then (more experience, they were young players that season). The coaches seem to think Hadnot is better then Lutui since he beat him out, so that can be counted as an upgrade (matter of opinion though). Colledge is better then Wells by a good margin IMO. So overall, our line wasn't that good back then and we still went to the SB. It hasn't really gotten that much worse and IMO is going to be better now then the SB year if Massie lives up to his pre-draft rating.

Edit: In case some of you have forgotten about Gandy thanks to the way we've sucked since Kurt left, here's a thread back in 09 on another site about him.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=362170&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Not that fans opinions are proof of anything though.

 

[Dayman]

Pure BPA or need are both idiotic draft philosophies. Getting a player who you believe has a place on your roster and whom you believe deserves to go around where you are drafting or higher is the only good draft philosophy. In the event that no one that meets that criteria is there when you're on the clock, you trade down (so long is the deal isn't completely lopsided against you) or you trade up if you see the perfect player for your situation sitting on the board sliding lower then where he should be but probably still out of your reach. Never draft a player significantly early and never draft a player who you can't use. Steelers and Patriots picks were both BPA (or at least deserved to go by that pick or earlier) and need where they took them.

So were all of our picks in the first 4 rounds IMO.

Rounds 5-7 it really doesn't matter as much. You're chances of finding a quality player would be about as high if you took a dart and threw it at your draft board and picked whoever it hit probably at that point.

I agree with most of what you're saying. I just don't see Floyd as a superior talent to other players available at #13 whom I feel would add more to the team, specifically Melvin Ingram. This wasn't a Levi Brown/Adrian Peterson scenario. It was choosing between players universally ranked in the same range. The Cards obviously felt Floyd was the best option, but I have my doubts.

 

[52brandon]

I love the optimism.... I just don't see how adding a #2 WR will make Larry exponentially MORE productive than he has been. I love his talent, just think it won't help Kolb or Skelton keep their uniforms from getting dirty.

We will see how it works out.

how so? With Q and Fitz, our line was awful too. But it seemed to work pretty well. After Q left, Warner retired...


I absolutely love the pick. I'm no GM, but it's exactly who I would have taken if I was in the Cards' shoes

 

[Dr. Jones]

how so? With Q and Fitz, our line was awful too. But it seemed to work pretty well. After Q left, Warner retired...


I absolutely love the pick. I'm no GM, but it's exactly who I would have taken if I was in the Cards' shoes

The reason Kurt Warner is a hall of famer IMO is due to his ungodly, and transcendent anticipation, accuracy, and timing.

Comparing anything he did to what is happening now is a fools errand. The greatest QB's always make your sack totals drop, and completion %'s rise. We do not have any Kurt Warners at the QB position.

With that in mind, we need to give our QB that extra half-second that he currently is not getting. We made more deep passing plays last year than we did in 2010. Heck, Early, Hyphen, Fitz, & Roberts contributed on that.

What we needed most..... Is either a stronger, more consistent pass-rush, or that extra half-second of protection. No matter how talented Floyd is, he doesn't provide either of those things. Because pundits don't sip the kool-aid, they see it like they see sunshine. It is either there.... or it isn't.

My best case that would disprove my argument:
Floyd might be able to cause blitz schemes to change (keeping one extra guy back) but that will not come from day 1. He will need to prove he deserves that. Maybe he will......Maybe he wont.

 

[Duckjake]

The reason Kurt Warner is a hall of famer IMO is due to his ungodly, and transcendent anticipation, accuracy, and timing.

Didn't hurt that he got to play with Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt and then Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin.

Would we even be talking about Warner as HOF if Larry hadn't made that incredible catch on the flea flicker vs Atlanta in the 2008 playoffs and it had been intercepted instead and the Falcons won that game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-leS7FpBGCA

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If the Cards had passed on Floyd the Rams would have grabbed him in a nanosecond. The pundits would then be saying that because of "need" the Cards got snookered out of selecting a difference maker, yada, yada. And, if the Pats or Giants had selected Massie at the end of the first or second round they would have lauded the pick.

 

[Chopper0080]

A solid B draft.

 

[Renz]

Fox Sports' John Czarnecki gave us a B+.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Cards had passed on Floyd the Rams would have grabbed him in a nanosecond. The pundits would then be saying that because of "need" the Cards got snookered out of selecting a difference maker, yada, yada. And, if the Pats or Giants had selected Massie at the end of the first or second round they would have lauded the pick.

This. The Cardinals drafted Floyd as a difference maker.

 

[52brandon]

The reason Kurt Warner is a hall of famer IMO is due to his ungodly, and transcendent anticipation, accuracy, and timing.

Comparing anything he did to what is happening now is a fools errand. The greatest QB's always make your sack totals drop, and completion %'s rise. We do not have any Kurt Warners at the QB position.

With that in mind, we need to give our QB that extra half-second that he currently is not getting. We made more deep passing plays last year than we did in 2010. Heck, Early, Hyphen, Fitz, & Roberts contributed on that.

What we needed most..... Is either a stronger, more consistent pass-rush, or that extra half-second of protection. No matter how talented Floyd is, he doesn't provide either of those things. Because pundits don't sip the kool-aid, they see it like they see sunshine. It is either there.... or it isn't.

My best case that would disprove my argument:
Floyd might be able to cause blitz schemes to change (keeping one extra guy back) but that will not come from day 1. He will need to prove he deserves that. Maybe he will......Maybe he wont.

we're about to find out. I think our WRs and RBs will make our QB (whoever it is) look better. But who knows, the 2012 season will show whether they do or don't. I hope so though, our D is so solid, if our offense can look halfway decent, I think this could be the best Cardinals team we've ever had

 

[Totally_Red]

Didn't hurt that he got to play with Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt and then Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin.

Would we even be talking about Warner as HOF if Larry hadn't made that incredible catch on the flea flicker vs Atlanta in the 2008 playoffs and it had been intercepted instead and the Falcons won that game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-leS7FpBGCA

And Dan Marino had the Marks, Clayton and Duber. Montana had Jerry Rice, etcetera. Good quarterbacks make receivers bettter and vice versa. The thing that made Kurt special IMO was his extraordinary performances in the post-season, something like 9-4. He had plenty of bad games, but come post-season, he was usually outstanding. It's what separates him from the wanna-bes like Donavan McNabb IMO.

Post-season QB (passer) ratings
1999 100.6
2000 83.9
2001 86.7
2008 112.2
2009 129.1

 

[JeffGollin]

This. The Cardinals drafted Floyd as a difference maker.

Speaking of Floyd's unique talents, in the 1H of the East-West Game, our new UDFA LaRon Byrd (described as "a door going out for a pass") walled off his defenders twice for catches; one for a TD.

I realize he's merely "one of the undrafted" but when he caught that TD, he reminded me of Floyd.

 

[JAB]

What we needed most..... Is either a stronger, more consistent pass-rush, or that extra half-second of protection. No matter how talented Floyd is, he doesn't provide either of those things. Because pundits don't sip the kool-aid, they see it like they see sunshine. It is either there.... or it isn't.

No matter how talented Floyd is? I don't agree with that. You're not going to be able to blitz your safety he's going to have to cover one of them over the top which will leave the other most likely double covered with a linebacker or one on one, which will make an easy read for the quarterback and help him get the ball out quicker.

I personally believe the Rams success and our success with Kurt is you couldn't blitz him we had too many weapons, and it made for an easy read every time you try, it was easy to make you pay. When Tory Holt and Marshall Faulk went down to injuries Kurt Warner started developing a bad habit, which was a slow release. That was his demise in St. Louis, and in New York was holding the ball too long. After his talent came back in St. Louis he was so beat up from holding the ball and taking hits he wasn't the same player.

All of that adds up to me Kurt Warner couldn't do it without the weapons that made his reads a lot easier. Yes, he was extremely talented, but when you're sending three or four guys out into passing patterns that demand attention it makes reading the defense a lot easier and without those weapons they came after him he didn't get rid of the ball and he got killed.

As far as the defense goes I believe the organization believes our defense is what it was the second half of the season, not the first half. I believe they went the best route which was to give us a secondary to give our defensive line that half second coverage they need to get to the quarterback. You don't just need elite pass rushers to get the job done. I believe Darnell Docket and Calais Campbell will wreak havoc with a solid secondary.

All that to say with this year's draft I think they made the right decision and if he's half as good as he should be with the players we took I believe we will have a really decent football team.