PFT Report: GIANTS CHOP THREE

[joeshmo]

so why don't you go back and read the thread and reread my post on pettigout. you will find it a relevant response to all those that oppose in bringing in pettigout.

I have read your response. All it talks about is how Barber had over a 100 yards the last 4 years. Not exactly a ringing endorsement with Barber a great running back and better coached team for you instead of JJ Arrington and Marcell Shipp your first 2 years as on OT, or having the weakest OG in the world next to you in Wells.

And the post wasnt very relavent to the much bigger questions about Luke which are, why Luke is more of a penalty machine then Davis is, why Luke gives up far more sacks per pass attempt then Davis does, the fact that Luke has been injuried the past 2 season, the fact that he is on the wrong side of 30, and so on. At this point in time the only valid arguement you have for why Luke would be better then Davis is the Luke would be cheaper.

Here is a rebuttal to your one and only arguement for bringing in Luke -

Barbers YPC before Luke went down to another injury - 5.1
Barbers YPC when Luke wasnt playing - 5.11
Barbers run attempts per game when Luke was healthy - 21.22
Barbers run attempts per game when Luke was injured - 23.1
The only time the Giants complained about Barber not getting enough carries was in the Jax game when he only got 10 attempts, yet he still ran the ball more times at a better clip then when Luke was Healthy. Yep they really missed him. So was it that Luke was a great lt opening holes for barber or was it Barber who made Luke look like a better run blocker then he really is. Barber would have got his 1000 yards and more with or without Luke.

 

[Evil Ash]

here is my original post.

So you want us to spend millions (Pettigout won't come cheap either) on a player that spends the majority of his time on the injured list?

I've liked Big all season and still feel that he can be a good player with good coaching.

 

[Pariah]

here is my original post.

It doesn't really say much of anything about why you don't think Big is any good.

 

[joeshmo]

That's all well and good, but it's still hard to swallow that Big was not supposed to block the guy. Especially because he did try and block him low and take him out, and missed.

I know that everybody around here is on the Big bandwagon but defending every stupid thing the guy has done isn't required to get people to realize we should keep him IMHO.

He didnt miss. The got the DE's hands down and Matt should have thrown the ball or got rid of it and he didnt. Matt has already stated this, why wont people believe what Matt said about the play. Do you not believe him.

And people are not defending him on every single play, no one will defend his false starts. They are only defending him when he is unfairly getting chastized for a play that the QB himself has already talked about.

 

[vinnymac]

What, in your worldview, is so bad about Big?

And, why not spend $11M on him? What else would the Cards do with that money?

what can be done with that money. you can get a major upgrade in your linebacking core and secondary with 11 million dollars. should be able to get 3 good players with 11 million. big going to cost more around 12 million if he is franchised. ask your self this question. what do you expect out of a player when you pay him 12 million a year. do you expect inconsistances play, penlaities, and getting your qb and rb killed.

 

[Evil Ash]

what can be done with that money. you can get a major upgrade in your linebacking core and secondary with 11 million dollars. should be able to get 3 good players with 11 million. big going to cost more around 12 million if he is franchised. ask your self this question. what do you expect out of a player when you pay him 12 million a year. do you expect inconsistances play, penlaities, and getting your qb and rb killed.

We have $38 million in cap room. They could re-sign Big AND guys like Adalius Thomas without a problem

As Joe pointed out, you're greatly over-rating Pettigout

 

[Mulli]

So instead of picking at #5 and paying one person #5 money, think of all the second and third rounders coudl be had with that money.

 

[Heucrazy]

He didnt miss. The got the DE's hands down and Matt should have thrown the ball or got rid of it and he didnt. Matt has already stated this, why wont people believe what Matt said about the play. Do you not believe him.

And people are not defending him on every single play, no one will defend his false starts. They are only defending him when he is unfairly getting chastized for a play that the QB himself has already talked about.

I believe that Matt is a good leader and he won't throw one of his own guys under the bus.

What I can't believe is that there are blocking schemes that call for a guy not to be blocked. I find it very hard to believe that the line call was for Big to throw himself on the ground in front of the guy so that the DE would have to put his hands down while he ran around Big on his way to the QB practically untouched.

Sorry but that's not unfairly chastizing Big. That just calling it like it happened.

 

[joeshmo]

big going to cost more around 12 million if he is franchised.

First you are not going to get 3 Good players for 11 Mill., if you think we can then you dont havent been paying attention to what the market was last year and this upcoming year. So lets say they could get 3 good players for 11 Mill. Do you really expect us to get 9 good players for the amount of cap space we have. Do you really expect to even get 6 good players after davis Franchise tag amount is taken out. Can you even name 6-9 good FA's we even have a shot at?

Second since when is 11,002,800 closer to 12 Mill then 11 Mill. (120% of 9,169,000 his base salary = his franchise tag amount.)

 

[joeshmo]

So instead of picking at #5 and paying one person #5 money, think of all the second and third rounders coudl be had with that money.

Heck it will take more money to sign a unproven rookie Joe Thomas @ #5 then it would to give Davis a long term deal. Now thats perspective.

 

[Heucrazy]

Heck it will take more money to sign a unproven rookie Joe Thomas @ #5 then it would to give Davis a long term deal. Now thats perspective.

And a very good perspective. Big should be retained and locked up long term.

See I'm not a Big hater.

I just want people to admit he wiffed on that block against SF.

 

[Mulli]

Heck it will take more money to sign a unproven rookie Joe Thomas @ #5 then it would to give Davis a long term deal. Now thats perspective.

 

[joeshmo]

What I can't believe is that there are blocking schemes that call for a guy not to be blocked.

Then you have never heard of the CUT block then. You jump for a defnders knees hoping they put their hands down or slowing them just enough so a RB can get by.

And even the Radio guys were talking about Matt throwing the ball like he should have. Were they not trying to throw any one under the bus as well.

Again talk with any OL coach.

 

[joeshmo]

I just want people to admit he wiffed on that block against SF.

NEVER.

 

[vinnymac]

last season pettigout missed 7 games, 2005 missed 1 game, and 2004 he started all 16 games. the only other season that he missed more than 2 games is in 2002 when he missed 6 games.

 

[vinnymac]

say what you want and pull all the stats out that you want. just tells me that the gaints have good depth at the ol position. the one thing that bothers me most about davis is that he was in a contract year. the cardinals just signed edgerrin james. plus he has a non mobile qb starting. you would think that this guy would have played better at the beginning of the season instead of turning it on with 7 games left. the whole offensive line didn't turn it on until after the bye week. that was when green job was pretty much in doubt. imo that was when green lost his job and the players knew they were playing for there jobs. players like that imo don't deserve to be offered a contract. they show that they are only there to collect a pay check.

 

[Totally_Red]

Peter King on Pettigout

Emailer: What gives with the Giants cutting so many veterans and so much leadership in LaVar Arrington, Luke Petitgout and Carlos Emmons?''

Peter: I think it's a good sign. New GM Jerry Reese is saying to his team: No more sacred cows. The veterans won't last on this team just because they're veterans. The guy who surprises the most fans, from what I'm hearing the last half a day, is Petitgout. But people have to look at Petitgout the player and not Petitgout's reputation. The player was a mediocre one for the last two or three years. Mediocre at best.
========
King actually lives in New Jersey. I don't agree with everything he says, but IMO he's dead on in the assessment. Exchanging Luke Pettigout for Leonard Davis makes no sense.

 

[joeshmo]

last season pettigout missed 7 games, 2005 missed 1 game, and 2004 he started all 16 games. the only other season that he missed more than 2 games is in 2002 when he missed 6 games.

He played with major back problems from 2002-2005, not being able to do much during the offseason. And he broke his leg in 2006 and is not to 100% yet.

 

[joeshmo]

the whole offensive line didn't turn it on until after the bye week. that was when green job was pretty much in doubt. imo that was when green lost his job and the players knew they were playing for there jobs. players like that imo don't deserve to be offered a contract. they show that they are only there to collect a pay check.

Of course the turn around of the OL had nothing to with 4 new starters on the OL or a new OC asserting himself.

Brown moved from RG to LG after he came back from injury.
Wells moves to RT.
Step is benched and Leckey Starts.
Lutui starts at RG.

 

[Totally_Red]

say what you want and pull all the stats out that you want. just tells me that the gaints have good depth at the ol position. the one thing that bothers me most about davis is that he was in a contract year. the cardinals just signed edgerrin james. plus he has a non mobile qb starting. you would think that this guy would have played better at the beginning of the season instead of turning it on with 7 games left. the whole offensive line didn't turn it on until after the bye week. that was when green job was pretty much in doubt. imo that was when green lost his job and the players knew they were playing for there jobs. players like that imo don't deserve to be offered a contract. they show that they are only there to collect a pay check.

To the contrary, the Giants cut both left tackles and are apparently moving David Diehl to the position. It sounds like Pettigout was just an overpaid veteran with serious back and leg injuries the past two years who wasn't worth $5-million to land on I.R. again.

Ironic some Giant posters think he ends up Arizona because of the horrbile O-line here and it's the only team that would have him. I hope we're smarter than that

 

[vinnymac]

another thing, how many more games did the gaints win after they lost pettigout. 2 i believe it was. that is the main stat in my book

 

[Evil Ash]

another thing, how many more games did the gaints win after they lost pettigout. 2 i believe it was. that is the main stat in my book

Yup, Pettigout is the main reason that the Giants defense underperformed and why Eli Manning can't read defenses well. Makes perfect sense

 

[vinnymac]

Of course the turn around of the OL had nothing to with 4 new starters on the OL or a new OC asserting himself.

Brown moved from RG to LG after he came back from injury.
Wells moves to RT.
Step is benched and Leckey Starts.
Lutui starts at RG.

my point is that this line didn't get any push what so ever. that includes lenard davis. they didn't play with any heart. that is what the offseason is for. to assert yourself. it is not like looney was just added when they started training camp. he was there for the first day of the off season program that the cardinals have. when it is a coin toss between the cardinals and the raidiers for having the worst offensive line in football, something is wrong. it both the players and the coaches fault for this. the fans shouldn't be calling for davis's head during the season. that still floors me that y'all were wanting to get rid of davis during the season without having a better option and now all of sudden you are wanting to keep him. that is what i call flip flopping. so y'all pretty much admitting being dumb for thinking like that.

 

[joeshmo]

another thing, how many more games did the gaints win after they lost pettigout. 2 i believe it was. that is the main stat in my book

Yep had nothing to with their #1 CB injured, #1 DE injured, #1 WR injured, WLB injured, SLB injured, coughlin losing the team to undisciplined football, lossing to 3 playoff teams, and losing to a surging Tenn teams becuase of a rookie DE - Kiwi mistake on a final scoring drive. If that is what you have to reach for so be it.

 

[joeshmo]

the fans shouldn't be calling for davis's head during the season. that still floors me that y'all were wanting to get rid of davis during the season without having a better option and now all of sudden you are wanting to keep him. that is what i call flip flopping. so y'all pretty much admitting being dumb for thinking like that.

Dumb is not remembering past posts to this same exact issue you are bringing up yet again even though I explained to you without you even debating it. So either you just dont read or you like to use old and faded arguements because you cant think of anything else.

1. People didnt have a FA list when calling for Davis head.
2. People thought sam Baker and John Long were going to declare for the draft.
3. People did not know how much Cap space we would have.
4. People thought that the trade for Gorin was a god send becuase he was a starter for the Pats.
5. Davis didnt have a real LG or C playing next to him. (look what happened to Jones play after Hutch left, he still played well but did it not decline)

It isnt flip flopping, its called being informed of the situation and changing your stance based on the facts laid out in front of you. And yes the facts did change from then to now. But if you want to refuse to acknowledge that and would rather call people dumb instead, more power to you.